Win 61 info

Renegade.

Welcome to the board! A lot of people here, with a lot of information. Hopefully they will step forward and help you out with your research.

 

Have a buddy that has one and I will try to get the serial number! My shot is the first Winchester made gun right after the routledge and is in the 51000 range! They look the same with the matted receiver!

 

Thanks in advance John. They too, are great smoothbores! I have 3 of them in the 51xxx range including a 99% in the box with papers, etc.

Tell your friend that I will share my work with him when he gets me a Routledge serial number and barrel markings. A friend of mine has 2 consecutive serial numbered Routledges!!

 

From Renegade61: "A friend of mine has 2 consecutive serial numbered Routledges!! "

WOW!

For those that have access to a Routledge bore M61, Renegade61 has put together some real neat info and serial numbers.

Jolly

 

WoW indeed!

 

Renegade: Stopped by and checked out my buddies 61 Routledge today! Serial number is 45002! It is stamped 22 LONG R. SHOT! Just like the one pictured on page 51 (serial number 45010) of the Schwing Book! Guns were probably made the same day! Did you already have his serial number? He bought it several years ago! A few years back- I tried to buy one that was about mint but He wouldn't come down any from his 7500 price tag and I bought my early Winchester shot with the matted receiver like the routledge instead! Don't remember the serial number of the routledge gun or I would give it to you! Will be interested to hear what your research brings out!

 

Routledge Bore



45002 is now the earliest serial number I have recorded! Thanks for the information! Email me if you want the list of recorded serial numbers!

 

Renegade: There is one on gunbroker right now and he only gives the serial number as 45xxx! He has tried to move this gun for awhile now and has evidently took it to some gunshows as it has a plastic tie still on it. You might try to coax the serial number out of him by asking him a question thats located on the same page as the gun!

 

Have another serial number for you: 47000 The gun is pictured in the book by Ron Stadt titled: Winchester Shotguns and Shotshells(2nd edition) Its probably in the first edition as well!

 

Routledge Bore Model 61's

I am now up to 36 known Routledge serial numbers!!! Just added the latest this week. Keep em coming......

 

Renegade,

Do you have 45066? I picked up that number while doing my Model 61 survey of all chamberings. I have 1132 rifles so far. I don't have all your RB numbers in it.

Michael

 

Winchester Smooth Bore (Renegade61)

Good day Renegade61,

I just registered on this gun forum and this is my first post...I have a Routledge Bore Model 61...Please contact me and I will give you the serial#...

 

Routledge Model 61

Good day Renegade61,

I just registered on this gun forum and this is my first post...I have a Routledge Bore Model 61...Please contact me and I will give you the serial#...

Just sent you a PM.

Welcome aboard and thanks for your interest. Lots of valuable info can be found or solicited from this website.

 

Winchester 61 Routledge

i would like you to add my winchester 61 routledge S# 47024 to your list. where is the most up to date list? thanks heideheim37

 

Routledge Bores

i would like you to add my winchester 61 routledge S# 47024 to your list. where is the most up to date list? thanks heideheim37

Here you go. I recorded your number back in March. Please share with me your particular barrel inscription.

Serial Number
45002
45010
45022
45030
45035
45052
45053
45064
45066
45078
45112
45120
45126
45132
45138
45143
45150
45164
45189
45199
45220
45229
45256
45299
45318
45550
45671
45676
45813
45960
45995
462XX
46264
46398
46600
46627
46632
46649
46797
46845
46863
46878
46880
46894
46942
46959
46978
47000
47006
47009
47024
47054
47055
47243
47266
47481
47554
47727
47767
47856
48000
48914

 

Friend has a minty one. SN 45168. Inscription is 22 long rifle shot. Will try to post some phone pics of it...

 

Routledge Bores



That would be great! Thanks for sharing!

Would like exact barrel marking. Should be one of the following: 22 LONG R. SHOT, 22 L.R.-FOR SHOT ONLY-, 22 L. RIFLE / FOR SHOT ONLY

 

Before long you will have more numbers than were ever made. Probably more fakes out there than real ones at this point.

 

Wouldn't that be interesting!!! So far no duplicates like twobit is finding.

 

Routledge Bores

Update

Have now recorded serial numbers for 65 of the purported 77 Routledge Bore guns.

 

I'm sure you have the one Steve Barnett has for sale.

 

Routledge



Yes Sir. Thanks for all of you that are keeping your eyes and ears open.

 

Routledge Update - Model 61

I have now logged 69 serial numbers. Thank you to all those who have contributed to my study!

 

Routledge Update

I have now logged 69 serial numbers. Thank you to all those who have contributed to my study!

Have now recorded 70 of the alleged 77 total production!!!!

 

Thanks for the information, updates and your time.

 

I will refer to my prior post in this thread, and just add that the response just below it is not logical regarding finding a duplicate number.
The fakers start with the least expensive core obtainable.
I'm not trying to hurt feelings, but never like to see honest folks squeezed.

 

Just the messenger



Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger. NONE of us like hearing about the fakes or someone getting hurt by those who engage in dishonest activity.

Rather, by doing some research (much like twobit), we can hope that the results help people in making a more educated decisions!

 

Pure dedication..

Seldom witnessed any more. Bravo Zulu

44

 

Appreciation



Thanks 44!!

 

Getting Closer

Now up to 71 serial numbers.

 

Now up to 71 serial numbers.

Not to be negative or a doubter, but I am having a hard time believing that just (77) of the Routledge bore rifles were made. Your success (find) rate is off the charts in the "survey" world. As you are aware, I have been surveying various Winchester models for as long as 35-years now, and my best success rate is just 10% of the total made. I suspect that you will eventually shoot past the (77) number, and discover that more of them were made than what has been advertised. I do applaud you and your efforts to fully document this particular Winchester variant:bthumb:

Bert H.

 

This mornings auction on RIA

Anyone else follow some of the prices on this mornings auction???

Item #1061 was a Routledge bore model 61.

Went for $9,500 before buyers premium of at least 18%....... Thats $11,200!

Glad I started collecting them when I did!!!!

 

Serial Number

If the serial number is on the action, and NOT the barrel, a fake is hard to be discovered just by the number.

The Rem model 510 Rutledge bore rifles were supposed to have been only made during one year as stated in the Remington .22 Rifle book by Roy Marcot. Mine was not made that year, buy the 2 letter date code on the barrel. There are no serial numbers involved. There were supposed to have about 1100 Model 510's made with Rutledge bores. So records can be inconclusive.

 

Here is one more for the list...

https://winchestercollector.org/for...r.org/forum/winchester-rifles/Winchester+Model+61+ROUTLEDGE+BORE/page-2/#p66098

What is the current total?

Bert H.

 

Routledge Total so Far



Thanks Bert,

Got that off of the WACA site and it has become the 73rd sample. The range is from 45002 - 48914. I am suspect of that highest number for several reasons.

Some interesting serial number range info:
* 2 samples in the 48xxx
* 14 samples in the 47xxx
* 18 samples in the 46xxx
* 39 in the 45xxx
* It appears that all of them were made in 1939-40 based on production numbers
* 4 sets of back to back (consecutive) serial numbers
* An average of 41.63 numbers between samples not counting #48914

I have fielded inquiries for Serial Numbers in the 36xxx range to well beyond the 52xxx range. Many people haven't made the distinction between all the smoothbore variations and particularly the Routledge vs. Winchester versions made later to avoid paying Fred any royalties.

 

Could a Routledge bore 61 be created by taking a normal Winchester smooth bore 61 that was in the correct serial range and simply counterboring the barrel to the correct diameter and depth? Is it true that the original and correct guns were regular model smooth bores that were sent to Routledge for counter boring?

 

Routledge 61's



Factors such as barrel nomenclature, matted receiver, triangular loading port, and serial number range also come into play. 3 different variations of the barrel markings have been documented.

 

Hello all,

The rifle on Gunbroker certainly is a very nice example. I agree that the seller has a good reputation and has sold many fine Winchesters. But, I have certainly witnessed numerous dealers offering proven faked guns with or without their knowledge. Add to that the penchant for Model 61's to be "upgraded" and one has to be extremely careful when buying these "perfect" one in a million rifles.

My concern comes down to looking at the serial number on the rifle. After looking at more than 6000 individual Model 61 rifles this one looks "to perfect." It is VERY typical for the individual digits of the SN to not be aligned and for the depth of the digits to vary across the series. You can compare the number on this receiver to the examples I have posted from rifle very close in the SN range as examples. The SN on the rifle for sale looks to have been "engraved" versus being stamped into the metal.
The offered rifle:


Three other examples:




I will let you all decide on its authenticity. I personally would be concerned.
Michael