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Wealthy ammo for poor people?

7.7K views 97 replies 55 participants last post by  AstroGuy  
#1 ·
I've got a CZ 457 American on order from RKGuns, too good a deal to pass up. Until now my shooting has been my AR-7 which is an accurate plinking rifle. The CZ is expected to be an accurate target rifle. I've got 4000 rounds of Aguila 40gr "Super Extra" and about 2000 rounds of CCI plus a few hundred Federal I bought when I was just planning to feed a Glock 44 and the AR-7.

I can obviously also shoot them in the CZ, and will for "just shooting". I may want to also try the 25/50 yard challenge. For that I presume some "wealthy" ammo might shoot a bit better and give me a bit of I'm sure much needed assistance. I know nothing about "wealthy" ammo. I do know my rifle is liable to really like X while an outwardly identical appearing same model my be crazy over Y.

So what are the X, Y and Z of "wealthy" ammo I should try out first? And how many rounds does it take to determine if one's rifle really likes it or not? Thanks for all the great advice and assistance so far. This is a really great site.
 
#3 ·
Ammo makes a difference, but the difference. The difference is often specific to the rifle. But, general quality control will play out with less expensive (less control) generally resulting in larger groups. The importance increases as the precision of the rifle increases. There is less rifle error making the ammo error more apparent. Here is an example.

 
#4 ·
My favorite ammo that's just dipping into the better stuff but at reasonable prices is SK Semi Auto. It seems all of my rifles like it and it's generally quite consistent. Not to say it won't have a flyer now and then but it's a different class than bulk ammo. At around $8 a box it's not terribly expensive and is usually available online somewhere.

If you're really getting serious then just about any of the Lapua offerings can be quite good but more spendy and harder to find.
 
#5 ·
I would start out with various S-K flavors, Standard Plus, Rifle Match, Pistol Match and Pistol Match Special.
A couple of groups will give you the accuracy of the lot you have. Just because it shoots the Rifle Match you have great, the next lot maybe only okay.
My T1X also shoots Eley Benchrest Precision very well. Norma TAC22 is great practice ammo.
 
#6 ·
Since cost is a concern, I would shoot the ammo you have for the first 500 rounds or so to get used to the trigger, sight in your scope and find rest/ positions that are steadiest for you with this rifle. And to set the standard for the best you can get with cheap stuff. Then try some SK if you can find some, or the holy grail, Center-X
 
#7 · (Edited)
"The CZ is expected to be an accurate target rifle."
LDB,

Congrats on the new rifle!

as for the CZ American being a "target rifle" I'm not sure I'd go that far. I have owned two of them still have one. IMO they are good, okay shooters.

I'd start with SK rifle match, long range match or pistol match special or something along that line. I have had good luck with the SK semi-auto also.

You don't need Lapua CX or Midas unless you're competing in rimfire matches and the 457 American would not be a great choice for that.

good luck!
 
#9 ·
Seiller & Beloit CLUB does well enough in my 455 EVO to be competitive in rimfire silhouette matches out to 100 yards. As stated before, in the mid-price range lot to lot performance in a given rifle will vary. I prefer to shoot the NRA accuracy protocol of 5 consecutive 10 shot groups. The average of the group sizes gives a fair representation of the performance you can expect, and 10 round groups help me see the "flyers" and "outliers".
 
#14 ·
It's all a crap shoot. I'd probably buy it by the brick - in case you get a good lot, you at least have some more to shoot. Killough's has a lot of Eley products in your price range, with trial packs available. I shoot a fair amount of Eley and have good performance with it with good lots. Basically everything but unlimited benchrest and I've shot it there, too.

Eley at Killoughs
 
#16 ·
That’s actually exactly what I’ve been plinking with for about the last decade. Aguila super Extra and CCI SV.

I recently assembled a Supergrade and bought several different flavors of SK and Eley.

I haven’t broken into the “expensive” ones yet but the ones that have blown my mind for the cost ($7.33/box) are black box SK semi-auto.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Really good answers here until now, covering it all.

I would also suggest to stick with what you have for the first times at the range with your new rifle, especially with CCI SV, often being considered one of the best US-made standard level ammo.

When you reach the point you feel the ammo isn't up to your shooting skills, and it seems you're not able to improve them any more, take the step forward.

SK Standard Plus, or some Rifle Match or Pistol Match level ammo of european origin (SK, RWS, Lapua or Eley) should be reasonable choices at still moderate prices.

But higher ammo prices and quality levels are no guarantee that your individual rifle and the chosen brand / batch are a "perfect match" every time.

The lottery starts anew with every new batch...
 
#20 ·
IMO, SK Standard Plus is your entry point in the SK line. SK Rifle Match and SK Long Range are next rungs up that ladder. Probably not true "match ammo" by the benchrest guys' definition, but generally good ammo for the cost. I try to keep some SK LR in my personal stock all the time.
In Eley, I suppose I'd start with Club as a practice, casual target ammo. The three "EPS" or "flat nose" rounds (Tenex, Match, Team, in descending order) are Eley's true "match grade" rounds, and they get a bit pricey, but I use 'em as they generally work out for me, and they're usually available.
Lapua's match rifle line starts with Center-X, and that round starts at around $17 per box ... and all three varieties of Lapua match rifle ammos are generally "here this morning, gone this afternoon" propositions when it comes to availability.
Good luck.
 
#22 · (Edited)
On this site you'll find a whole spectrum of attitudes.
You get to read them all and make up your own mind.
I suggest you use reasonably priced ammunition to sight in, and break in your barrel, and also
to develop your shooting skills. If all you had was an AR-7, there's a whole world of .22 shooting
for you to explore. Shooting a good rifle from a good rest with a good scope and a good trigger
and a stock that fits you can make a huge difference even with moderately priced ammo.

I did this too, when I was new here. I read so many posts, some of which were alarmingly snobby.
But I don't mind reading snobby posts, because I myself am too easy going. I have no interest in
competitive shooting. I shoot .22s for fun, and that's my attitude. So if I don't annoy our more
competitive members, that's a good thing. I don't intend to. I've learned a lot here, and I'm grateful
for that.

To answer your question, I'm with Flint Hills. Shoot what you already have, and sight in your rifle with it first,
before you get too crazy. Our bone head "government" has now started a war, and threatened to set tariff
taxes on foreign products, therefore many of the brands that come from overseas may simply disappear.
*shrugs Or not! Maybe somebody has a warehouse full, and is waiting for an opportunity to gouge us all.
None of that would surprise me. I ain't buyin' it.

My rifle (I only have one .22 rifle) is a Ruger 1022. That fact will tell you that I care nothing about
the concerns of competition. I resolved to shoot what I could find, when I saw ammunition disappear
in 2020. Now that ammo is back on the shelves, I'm shooting up all the oddball stuff I bought when
nothing else was available. I've stocked up on CCI SV and Aguila Super Extra because those have
proved to shoot well in my 'moderately improved" 1022. I resolved not to buy into the cult of
.22 super-accuracy, and I have not done so.

I made up my mind and stuck with it... not to go down the super-accuracy rabbit hole,
and I'm happier up here in the sunlight. I did buy some parts and bits to improve my 1022,
and that was fun to do. if you popped for a CZ you might already be down in there.
Have fun! Make yourself a budget. Like going to the race track.
If you decide in advance how much of your hard earned cash you are willing to lose
to fast women and slow horses, you protect your family. The same with guns and ammo.

An AR-7 (to me) is like a go-cart... at least mine was. It will get you there.
A Ruger 1022 is the Chevy truck of the .22 world. I'm a Chevy guy.
Ford guys prolly like the Marlin model 60.
Your CZ 457 is a grade or two better than my Ruger, and the world of .22 rifles goes
on up to the Maserati level as you may know since you're here. You make your choices of ammo
the same way, based on what you can afford, and what you're trying to accomplish.
 
#23 ·
I found a free shipping option at Midway. I ordered 5 boxes each of Federal Premium and SK Semi-Auto rifle and 1 box each of Eley Force and Eley Bullseye Pistol X. I'm going to use my Aguila Super and CCI for adjusting the scope and spending time getting used to shooting a rifle and this one specifically. Then I'll try some of those and see what happens. If I find any of the other SK suggested I'll probably get a bit while I can but for now I'm sure I'm more than set. It's still fun to talk about though and especially to learn so much from so many here.
 
#24 ·
@LDB415
Congrats on your new rifle and when you get it have a lot of fun trying different ammo.
Just look out for the rabbit holes concerning the 'best' scopes, the 'best' bipods, the 'best' competitions, and the 'best' ammo. I can almost guarantee that will happen in time :potstir: .
 
#25 ·
only too true... I think Huck Finn has something to say about "leave well enough alone..."
but I looked through my copy and didn't find it. That's usually my method of operation,
because I'm only mildly OCD. I'm happy with my 1022 and have been enjoying working with
it, and seeing my groups get smaller.

I'm happy with my 1022 as a fifty yard gun. You might be able to shoot well at a hundred with
your CZ once you've stabilized yourself with your choices. You'll need a good rest if you intend
to explore serious marksmanship. I'd suggest you begin with a simple sandbag or two.
An old sock or two filled with split peas or crushed walnut shells (lizard cage media) will get you started.
You can spend a little or a lot on shooting bench equipment...
Here's my 1022 supported by a couple of commercial sandbags. I shot a deer off those bags last November
with my 7x51mm rifle. The Caldwell rest on the left is one I bought at Sportsman's Wh*rehouse... it's a
cheap one but works well. That's only the front end, it has buttstock support too.
Image

If you get into longer range than 50 yards, you'll want a spotting scope or a good pair of binoculars... like this:
(or just a pair of track shoes if you're young and frisky)
Image

Lots of rabbit holes to explore... you'll need your master card. Or just make a budget in advance, and stick to it.
Good luck and good shooting.
 
#26 ·
Lots of rabbit holes to explore... you'll need your master card. Or just make a budget in advance, and stick to it.
Good luck and good shooting.
budget? budget? What is this thing called "budget"? :popcorn:
 
#28 ·
My attitude towards ammo is to shoot it all. I pick up cheaper bulk ammo and more expensive match ammo all the time; when I see it on sale or find a good deal. Yes I end up with a hodgepodge of ammo but it allows me to enjoy shooting more.

If I’m shooting with my wife or kids or friends I don’t need the best match ammo, we’re just out having fun. I generally shoot cheaper ammo in pistols as we don’t shoot very far and I don’t shoot very good anyway. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to spend 40 cents a round when I struggle hitting a pop can at 30 yards.

When I was younger and had to watch my pennies closely the cheapest stuff I could buy worked great and I didn’t know anything better existed. Now I’m old and can afford ammo but I’m still cheap and only shoot the good stuff for groups and playing battleship with my buddy. My little stockpile allows an ammo for any situation, all geared towards FUN!
Image
 
#29 ·
My attitude towards ammo is to shoot it all. I pick up cheaper bulk ammo and more expensive match ammo all the time; when I see it on sale or find a good deal. Yes I end up with a hodgepodge of ammo but it allows me to enjoy shooting more.

If I’m shooting with my wife or kids or friends I don’t need the best match ammo, we’re just out having fun. I generally shoot cheaper ammo in pistols as we don’t shoot very far and I don’t shoot very good anyway. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to spend 40 cents a round when I struggle hitting a pop can at 30 yards.

When I was younger and had to watch my pennies closely the cheapest stuff I could buy worked great and I didn’t know anything better existed. Now I’m old and can afford ammo but I’m still cheap and only shoot the good stuff for groups and playing battleship with my buddy. My little stockpile allows an ammo for any situation, all geared towards FUN! View attachment 605352
I don't think I ever saw 157000 rounds of ammo in one place before.
 
#31 ·
I found a niche in SK Long Range Match and SK Rifle Match. If I'm shooting targets competitively the Rifle Match will shoot .25" at 50 yards and if I'm shooting metallic silhouette the Long Range Match is good out to 200 yards. Both are in the $10 - $12 range and I have a few bricks of each in a lot number that my MTR likes. I keep a few boxes of CCI SV Target or Aquilla on hand for general plinking or for when the wind is blowing.
No rabbit hole for me but rather work on my shooting skills and have fun.
 
#34 ·
Probably not much I can add to here as most everyone touched on what I’d suggested. I’ll just say that I have an CZ 457 @One & an MTR. In both cases they seem to like the SK Match Rifle/red box however I have a few lots of the Standard Plus that really shoots well so I only shoot that when I’m shooting in a match.
I don’t really know why but anything Eley does not shoot well out of my CZ’s. The SK really is the best I’ve shoot out of them.
I do want to get some Lapua ammo and see if its as good a shooters in my CZ’s at some point.

Good luck and congrats on your new gun!
 
#35 ·
Read this little article on choosing ammo.

It is by far the best way to pick between ammos for your rifle that I am aware of.

You shoot two shot groups. Yes, two shots. Move to another bull and shoot two more. The article describes some additional calculating in a spreadsheet for even better discrimination. If you do the extra math 12 pairs is enough. If you just want to measure groups and average them, I'd suggest doing 15 pairs. And nothing wrong with doing 25 pairs or 50 shots. This will be better and more discriminating between ammos that are nearly equivalent than doing 5 or 10 shot groups because every shot is involved in your measurements. With 10 shot groups you are only measuring 2 of the 10 shots.

Second best in my opinion, would be ten 5 shot groups and nearly as good is five 10 shot groups.

If you had an indoor windless test location, and one of those auto return to battery machine rests so you don't have to re-aim each time I would say a single 30 shot group is the way to go. But outdoors along with a human behind the trigger I think the two shot group method is superior in practice to a single 30 shot group.
 
#60 ·
Read this little article on choosing ammo.

It is by far the best way to pick between ammos for your rifle that I am aware of.
This is great! Thanks for sharing it. I've only read the first three pages so far but I can tell already that it is what I've been looking for. As an engineer with a background in using statistics to prove or disprove differences in test results, I've known that basing accuracy conclusions on group sizes, which are driven by only the two extreme holes, is not a solid technique if what you really care about is the probability of a shot falling within a certain distance from "center".
Who is the author? There is no attribution in the article.