Well Jerald, I do hope that if you end up having cataract surgery it has a successful resolution. But of course, that will remove an excuse if the shooting doesn't improve...on the other hand, if your shooting improves, then it's a win-win situation. 😊 👍

Best of luck.



James

 

I don't have the sako or the cz. I have(on your recommendation) the tikka, anschutz 1717D and recent acquisition the bergara bmr. They are all very close. Enjoyed your review. I really like many things about the tikka. I have also been told I have a cataract but it too soon to remove. Tikka seems to be a really good stalking kind of rifle. My latest exploits in going broke have been recently purchased meopta scopes which have ruined me for other glass for the moment. This weekend Doug is having a sale and luckily my credit card is so hot as to be unusable, otherwise I would be talking to him again. I've been lusting after a sako but luckily again had other opportunities, that I have exploited. What ammunition did you use for your test? Excuse the rambling...

 

I want to handle a Meopta but I read good things about them. Not hard to exceed the budget.

Eyes seem to be a problem for some of us. Macular degeneration took my right eye and now its started in left.
Makes it extremely hard to look through a scope.
Good luck with your cataracts.

My Dad was blind in his right eye and nearly so in his left toward the end of his life, from Macular Degeneration, they've been keeping an eye on my eyes but so far the Cataracts are the major issue.

 

I know what you mean about lusting after a Sako. About ten years ago, someone had the most beautiful gun I had ever laid eyes on at a local gun show. It was a Sako in .243 with deluxe wood and a Bell & Howell scope, priced at $1400.00. I had already spent too much money to keep peace in the family if I spent more. It was soon gone. I still have dreams about it even though that was about ten years ago.
Sarge41

 

Eyes seem to be a problem for some of us. Macular degeneration took my right eye and now its started in left.
Makes it extremely hard to look through a scope.
Good luck with your cataracts.

 

I took a 48 injections into the back of my right eye....one a month. Didn't help.
Going next week to consult with a few new docs about a laser treatment.
The first eye took about 10 years to go completely blind. I'm 72 so I may not have to worry about going completely blind in my left.
Sure would be nice though to see a little better through a scope. I wish I had got into the rimfire earlier in my life.
I love it.

 

CZ 452 American in .17hmr, Sako Quad Varmint in .17hmr and Tikka T1x in a Bell&Carlson stock. Some disappointment, some surprises and some excuses. Best all around performance came from the Tikka, no problems at all, the CZ outshot it but it had feeding issues that came and went, Tikka was a very close second on accuracy. Biggest disappointment was the trigger on the Sako, likely an easy fix but it was far and away the worst Sako trigger I've encountered, likely accounted in part for the lack luster accuracy I obtained with it.

Excuses, I'm meeting with the eye Doctor in two weeks re my Cataracts, I had focus problems with the Weaver and Nikon scopes on the Tikka and CZ, problems getting the parallax out and focus as well. It's the eyes, got to be the eyes. 50 yard groups ran from the .3's to .5's for the CZ, .4's to .6's for the Tikka with the Sako being a Jekyll and Hyde from .3 to .750 seemingly at random (I blame my eyes). 100 yard groups range from just under 1" withe the CZ to one near 2" group with the Sako. The Tikka won the hunting role, good accuracy and a really good synthetic stock vs wood too nice to haul around in Mule, plus its threaded which is huge, all it's shooting was with the suppressor on.

Those are good groups.
Will you tell me what ammo you were using.

I've got 3-Left Handed 17HMRs. Browning T-Bolt, Tikka T1X and CZ452. Been running 4-16 Scopes. Have a Hawke and a Burris.
50 yd performance is good but my groups get out to the 2-3 inch range at 100.

With my old eyes I'm going to try a Vortex 6-24 FFP next. I can switch it around to my 22s and try some long range.

Best wishes with your Cataracts.

 

I used mostly Hornady 17 gr Vmax from a lot I've had maybe 8-10 years, after the main shooting I did adjust the Tikka with CCI 20gr Game Point as I like their overall performance on bigger animals better.

A handsome group of rifles.

 

I used mostly Hornady 17 gr Vmax from a lot I've had maybe 8-10 years, after the main shooting I did adjust the Tikka with CCI 20gr Game Point as I like their overall performance on bigger animals better.

A handsome group of rifles.

Very nice. I seem to get the best groups out of the CCI 20 gr. JSP, but I shoot a lot of CCI V-Max 17gr. as well.
I'll need more practice to get my groups as tight as yours at 100Yds.

I attached 3 pics of my 17HMR Jewells as well. I agree with you, can't have just one 17HMR, and the Synthetic T1X is Bulletproof.
I just picked up the CZ452 American. Stock is too nice to take out on a Gopher hunt. I'll either put it in a Boyds Pro Varmint or put it up for sale next spring.

 

Nice rifles...

 

My experiences w/the cartridge are limited to a Marlin 917 V w/laminate stock and a 3x9 Leupold fitted, but much enjoy reading what others' experiences are with it.

Thanks, Gerald, Teek & others who've taken the time to post their findings and results obtained. 👍

 

Those 917's usually shot very well, I had a Laminated stock model and still have a 917sM.17m2 Laminated. That little Marlin gives my Anschutz and CZ's a run for their money.

 

What is the difference between a sako finnfire 2 and a quad besides barrel swapping capability? Just curious one in the classifieds I keep trying to avoid.

 

Visually they look a lot alike but the barrel changing ability I believe is the main difference, I am not a Sako authority however.

 

I have 3 Anschutz (two 1517MPRs and a 1517D) and my newest is a Bergara B-14R. I've had my cataracts fixed and am switching to Meopta scopes. The result has been much greater joy hunting prairie dogs and improved hit percentage and increased confidence. The guns and scopes are better than I can perform, but I'll keep at it as long as I'm above ground.

 

Is there anything in particular that the Meopta scopes help with your vision or are you just referring to overall optical quality?

 

Been on a bit of a run lately. Still not completely confident in myself with new steyr. Tikka17hmr and Anschutz 1717D and bergara are all good. Steyr has pretty firm possibilities. Tikka and bergara running with meopta 3-15×50 sportRD and optika 5x4-20x50RD. Steyr has Burris fullfield 4-14×42 non illuminated. Seems to fit the steyr but somewhat spoiled by meopta. 1st world problems. Glad cataract surgery went well. Beats the alternative!

 

I’ve found that ammo lot variation is a HUGE contributor to group size. Keeping track of it for several years has shown me that I can’t draw reliable conclusions about which gun shoots best. It depends on what each gun likes best and what magical lot of ammo I’m putting through it on a given day. Last week my magic ammo was Hornady 20g. It has been 17g sometimes. To date my CZ 455 American has been my most accurate…..go figure.

 

Entirely agree. Never know with 17hmr. Luckily if I find what runs they are all bricks. No guarantees but you get it I'm sure. And I'm varminting so I don't go through bricks very fast. Still a bit of a crapshoot. I have one brick that none of my rifles particularly likes. The breaks can be expensive.

 

CZ 452 American in .17hmr, Sako Quad Varmint in .17hmr and Tikka T1x in a Bell&Carlson stock. Some disappointment, some surprises, and some excuses. Best all around performance came from the Tikka, no problems at all, the CZ outshot it but it had feeding issues that came and went, Tikka was a very close second on accuracy. Biggest disappointment was the trigger on the Sako, likely an easy fix but it was far and away the worst Sako trigger I've encountered, likely accounted in part for the lack luster accuracy I obtained with it.

Gerald - An excellent range report on your 17 HMR rifles. I admit I haven't shot mine since I was doing research on 17 HMR split case testing a few years back. Your update encourages me to get my rifles out to work on the "accuracy documentation" effort I need to accomplish on all my rifles. My 17 HMR rifles consist of a CZ 453 Varmint, Sako Quad Range, and a Steyr Zephyr II. When I did that testing I also had a 455 Varmint which I have since let go of and used as part of a trade. I don't recall any feeding or extraction issues with any of the rifles and the worst accuracy was using the CCI A17 Varmint 17 gr @2650fps as it had extreme spreads of 350-392 fps within the same box of 50 rounds.

I'm fortunate that both the CZ 453 & Sako Quad Range have SST setups . . . The Steyr is still set at its factory setting and it currently feels like a two-stage as it has a rather lengthy takeup. I had cataract surgery in both eyes, so I can't use that as an excuse. Both surgeries went well and my only need is for eye protection when shooting thus I'm fortunate and blessed in that regard.

I keep looking at the Tikki T1X but remind myself I have the Sako Quad Range with 22 LR & 17 HMR barrels.

 

Everyone bags on the 17 WSM ammo and trust me I'm well aware it's not great but in the chronograph testing I've done with both 17 HMR and WSM ammo the HMR had MUCH wider velocity spreads than did the WSM.

I've taken quite a lot of HMR and WSM ammo apart to measure out the components separately over the years and the consistency of the actual amount of powder in each one has always been very good in both. The amount of priming compound is a different story though but I don't know how much that actually increases/decreases velocity and nobody at CCI ever wants to tell me, either. Obviously, something causes the wild extreme velocity spreads in this ammo and I don't exactly know what it is but it's not coming from there being more powder in one case versus another. One area I can say that has a lot of variance, is seating depth. The OAL from base to ogive has huge variances in it and I know in my CF rifles that not only affects velocity but inconsistent seating depth plays hell on group size or even POI too.

I'd gladly pay a buck or two more per box if they'd, at the least, get the seating depth in relation of base to ogive, a lot more consistent.

 

Everyone bags on the 17 WSM ammo and trust me I'm well aware it's not great but in the chronograph testing I've done with both 17 HMR and WSM ammo the HMR had MUCH wider velocity spreads than did the WSM.

I've taken quite a lot of HMR and WSM ammo apart to measure out the components separately over the years and the consistency of the actual amount of powder in each one has always been very good in both. The amount of priming compound is a different story though but I don't know how much that actually increases/decreases velocity and nobody at CCI ever wants to tell me, either. Obviously, something causes the wild extreme velocity spreads in this ammo and I don't exactly know what it is but it's not coming from there being more powder in one case versus another. One area I can say that has a lot of variance, is seating depth. The OAL from base to ogive has huge variances in it and I know in my CF rifles that not only affects velocity but inconsistent seating depth plays hell on group size or even POI too.

I'd gladly pay a buck or two more per box if they'd, at the least, get the seating depth in relation of base to ogive, a lot more consistent.

Yep, ammo variability with 17HMR rounds has been well documented and discussed. Of course my shooting prowess ( or lack thereof ) is no doubt a major contributor, but I`ve always felt that sub-MOA groups, be they 3 or 5 shots, at 100 yards with 17HMR are cause for celebration! At least they are for this shooter.

 

One thing jaia has correct is there is pretty much no such thing as "target" rimfire...the .17's are no exception but you occasionally get some that they accidentally got right and it's a thing of beauty when they do....

Three shots at 100 yards from my Savage BMag with Winchester 15gr ammo fired by my Gunsmith after he'd bedded the rifle, shortened and threaded the barrel.

Some follow up shots I fired at 100 yards

A good lot is wonderful but Winchester doesn't make many good lots.

 

I have never had any good winchester ammo at all. Rimfire that is.

 

I have two 452 17HMR/22MRF magazines that I bought by accident. I have a 457 17. Apparently the 22lr mags interchange between all the models but the 17 mags don’t. They’re doing me no good. I would donate them to you if you PM me.

 

Looks like a nice collection of 17's, good shooting too !
I have one 17, a Savage 93r. It's a nice rifle and can usually lay them in. It doesn't care for V-max ammo though. At least, none of the lots I've ever had. Usually have feeding issues though.

 

Found this, and thought you all may find it interesting.
This sticky seems to have disappeared along with all of its target photos (Most were Photobucket), but maybe I just don't know how to find it.
*


17hmr 50yd & 100yd Club

I'm very new to the 17hmr's and but would like to propose a fun shoot for the
17hmr shooters like the .22 guys have with less groups with the cost of ammo being considered.

Game #1 50 yards for 17hmr & 17hm2

Here are the rules:

1. Any 17hmr or 17hm2 rifle with any sights or scope
2. 50yards from rifle to target indoors or outdoors
3. 2, 5 shot groups on one target, add the two together and divide by 2 for
the average, if the average size is .300" or less makes the club
4. One of the targets below must be used to participate.
5.2 single shots per target need to be shot to determine bullet diameter
6. Groups are figured by measuring outside to outside and subtracting the bullet diameter (avg of the two single shots)

Let the fun begin. :AR15firin

Game #2 100 yards for 17hmr & 17hm2

Here are the rules:

1. Any 17hmr or 17hm2
2. 100 yards from rifle to target
3. Any stock, Any scope, Any sights
4.2, 4 shot groups, measured outside to outside and subtracting the bullet diameter (avg of the two single shots)
5. Average for the 2 groups= 1.00" or less and your in the CLUB
6. One of the targets below must be used to participate

GOOD LUCK! I'll keep a second list of the 100 yard CLUB members.

17hmr & 17hm2 50 yard CLUB MEMBERS .300" avg group size

---Name--------------------Average 5 SHOT Group Size-----------Rifle--------------------------Ammo----------------------Date

1. Oldbohemian ---------------------.1545 --------------------------- Savage 93RBV -----------Rem. 17 gr. ------------ 8/14/14
2. Smoothtrigger -------------------.175 -------------------------------Anschutz 1717D Lilja ---CCI TNT ---------------3-4-16
3. SMOOTHTRIGGER --------------- .216" ---------------------------Anschutz 1727 F --------- CCI TNT ---------------10/16/13
4. bam1015-------------------------.2235"-----------------------------Marlin------------Win Supreme------------- 8/28/11
5. RICOCHET------------------------.2265"----------------------------Savage7--------------------------------------- 3/17/08
6. dsh------------------------------- .2355"----------------------------Cooper LVT-------------CCI 17gr V-Max---------- 11/12/09
7. JerryP ----------------------------.245" -----------------------------CZ/Lilja --------------Hornady 17 gr. --------------4/27/15
8. gmd1950------------------------- .247"-----------------------------Anschutz 1717 d------Hornady 17gr V-Max---- 10-20-09
9. SMOOTHTRIGGER -------------- .262" ----------------------------Anschutz 1717 dhb------ CCI 20gr -------------- 10-06-11
10. Arkyvarminter-------------------.2635"-----------------------------Marlin------------ Rem Vmax------------------ 1/17/09
11. MN22LRFan----------------------.268" ----------------------------Remington 547C-----Hornady 17 gr. Vmax--------3/11/14
12. Pup------------------------------- .2685"---------------------------Remington 504---------Win 17gr Vmax------------- 7/7/08
13. JerryP ----------------------------.272" ---------------------------Anschutz 1517 MPR ---Hornady 17 gr. Vmax ------11/20/15
14. 17remfan-------------------------.279"-------------------------------CZint------------------------------------------ 6/13/08
15. FreshAir ----------------------- .288" ----------------------------Savage 93R17 -------- Fed V Shock --------------- 10/1/12
16. RSnatch-------------------------.290"-----------------------------Savage7----------------------------------------- 6/08/08
17. 10SES ------------------------ .290" -------------------------Savage 93R17FVXP ------ CCI TnT -------------------- 1/9/12
18. FiremanFrank------------------.292"-------------------------------Marlin----------Hornady 17gr Vmax-------- 9/07/09
19. mchughcb----------------------.2958"------------------------------Sako-------------------------------------------- 5/03/08
20. sundayrider76-----------------.2975"-----------------------------VQmr--------------- CCI TNT--------------------7/18/11

17hmr & 17hm2 100 yard CLUB MEMBERS 1.00" or less avg group

------Name--------------Average 4 SHOT Group Size--------Rifle-------------------Ammo--------------------------Date
1.pup-------------------------------.336"--------------------Remington------17gr Win V-Max-----------5-29-08
2.Smoothtrigger------------------.390"--------------------AnschutzF--------CCI TNT------------------ 3-22-15
3.Smoothtrigger -----------------.415" -----------------Anschutz 1717D Lilja --CCI TNT .17gr. -------2-23-16
4..22jim---------------------------.447"--------------------Sako-------------17gr V-Max----------------2-14-10
5.hoagiejoe -------------------- .469" -----------------CZ 455 Varmint ------- 20gr XTP ----------------- 7-31-12
6.SMOOTHTRIGGER -------------- .494" ------------------ Anschutz 1717dhb ---- 20gr CCI ------------------- 10-18-11
7.cpaul-----------------------------.497"--------------------Remington-------Hornady--------------------3-18-09
8.SMOOTHTRIGGER -------------- .510" --------------Volquartsen Fusion ------- 20gr CCI -------------------- 10-17-11
9.gmd1950------------------------.5525"------------------Anschutzd-------Hornady 17gr V-Max------10-20-09
10.Quikz28 ------------------------ .5565" -------------- Savage 93 BTV ------- Hornady 17gr V-Max -------- 1-1-12
11.FreshAir ------------------------- .568" ---------------- Savage 93R17 --------- Fed V Shock --------------10-1-12
12.s&w686--------------------------.580"-------------------Savage---------CCI TnT 17gr----------------4-29-08
13Jason Magruder------------------.604"------------------Marlin----------20gr Hornady XTP-------------9-18-08
14.Chromie ----------------------- .638" ------------------ CZ 453 Varmint -----17gr Fed v-max ---------- 3-2-13. Leopold 4-12x40
15.quigley284-----------------------.687"------------------77/17hmr-----------17grady V-Max---------4-17-08
16.PirateAnnie -------------------- .695" ----------------Anschutz1717dhb ---- 20gr CCI gamepoint -------- 11-07-11
17.Dahlia --------------------------- .7017" ---------------CZZ 453 Varminnt ---17gr V-Max -------------------9-22-12
18.FiremanFrank------------------.7175"-----------------Marlin-----------17gr Hornady V-Max-----------9-4-09
19.justpaper -----------------------.719" ----------------Savage 93R17 ---------17gr Hornady V-Max ---------11-14-14
20.Patience0830-------------------.772"--------------------77/17hmr------------20grGP-----------------4-19-08
21. Travis 204 --------------------- .780" ----------------- 93 R17 FVSS ---------20gr Hornady XTP ----------- 5-2-12
22. 25contender. ------------------ .785". -----------------CZ 453 Varmint ------ CCI 20gr Gamepoint -------- 2-14-13 24x scope
23.gearoidol ---------------------- .780" ----------------- CZ 455 --------------- 17gr Hornady V-max --------4-15-12
24.Finkers--------------------------.789"-------------------Sako----------17gr Hornady-----------------01-31-11
25.lindros88------------------------.8155"------------------Savage-------20gr CCI GP--------------------4-17-10
26.Delaware Ken------------------.8155"------------------CZint--------20gr Hornady XTP-------------9-13-10
27.FireMan Frank------------------.826"--------------------Savage--------20gr Hornady XTP-------------4-13-08
28.Hired Gun------------------------.829"---------------Weatherby------17gr Hornady V-Max-----------10-18-09
29.Travis 204 ---------------------- .835" -------------- Sav 93 R17 FVSS --20gr Hornady XTP -----------4-11-12
30.CAMAC---------------------------.845"--------------------Sako--------17gr CCI V-Max---------------12-19-09
31.Arkyvarminter--------------------.849"-------------------Marlin---------20gr Hornady XTP------------1-14-09
32.sharrar --------------------------.86" ---------------Savage 93R17 GLV ----17gr Hornady V-Max ---------9-14-14
33.mchughcb-----------------------.866"-------------------Sako---------20gr CCI-----------------------1-17-09
34.fullup3---------------------------.879"-------------------Savage-------17gr CCI V-Max----------------7-26-10
35.Heydogman--------------------.885" -------------------Marlin 17V ---------17gr Hornady V-Max---------9-17-11
36.mchughcb-----------------------.887"-------------------Sako---------20gr CCI------------------------1-17-09
37.ryndisher------------------------.900"-------------------Savage-------17gr CCI TnT-------------------7-22-09
38.lbaldwi--------------------------.919"--------------------Marlin--------17gr Hornady V-Max-----------4-19-08
39.Hksnake -----------------------.9195" ------------Savage MarkII BSEV --17 gr. Hornady V-Max -------11/04/15
40.lbaldwi--------------------------.931"--------------------Anshutz-----------17grady V-max------------4-19-08
41.Edward78-----------------------.938"---------------Remington------ 17Hm2--17 V-Max--------------8-8-09
42.RSnatch--------------------------.945"-------------------Savage-------17gr Rem Accutip---------------6-08-08
43.DooDaddy-----------------------.955"-------------------Savage-------17gr Hornaday V-Max----------8-23-08
44.PizzaBob-------------------------.991"-------------------Cooper------17gr Horaday V-Max------------8-6-09

Another Target that can be used is below. The cross hairs are slightly thicker, and the "square" is "1 inch" for reference while shooting the 1.00" or less groups for the 100 yard club. Just another option for you.

Smooth

 

Tikka, t1x, 12 power scope.
Bipod and rear bag, 6-8MPH crosswind.
Top two bulls in each column is 5 shots, bottom row all 10 shots.
I dialed once for wind when I moved to 100 yards.

By the numbers..

CCI

Hornady

That one great group?
The chrono numbers show that 5 shot string to all be within 20 fps of each other.
Some other groups show over 120 fps spread.

Ammo makers hate us.