I don't know about #1.
#2 - at 25 yards I'd expect tighter groups given a solid rest.
#3 - Don't bother sorting. Its not worth the time or effort.

 

I used to not make conclusions until I had shot on at least 3 different sessions with similar conditions; ie, 1 session doesnt mean much. And changing lots doesnt help.

 

I don't know about #1.
#2 - at 25 yards I'd expect tighter groups given a solid rest.
#3 - Don't bother sorting. Its not worth the time or effort.

I used to not make conclusions until I had shot on at least 3 different sessions with similar conditions; ie, 1 session doesnt mean much. And changing lots doesnt help.

Thanks guys. I'm re-learning a lot of this stuff. Before I was married, I shot thousands of rounds a month. That was 12 years ago. Both my mind and body have forgotten a lot.

Yes, I really do need a better rest. The ground slopes where I was laying, and I'd rush the shot before it felt "right."

When I was a teen, I made a 100 yard range out into the woods. I'd shoot prone off the deck. That deck is still there at my parents', but the shooting range is all grown over now.

There's a gun club in town, and I'm thinking about joining. I shot Appleseed there about 15 years ago and it's a nice range. We'll see.

 

I finished floating the barrel on my Savage MkII project rifle the other day, then sighted it in at 25 yards. I was trimming branches.

I stained the barrel channel and put it back together.

Today, I had to sight it back in because it was shooting high and right. The differences were:

1. Bright, direct sunlight the other day, overcast today.

2. Shooting from the deck the other day, shooting from the ground today. Both were prone. Last two targets were shot with a rear beanbag rest I used as a squeeze sock.

3. Ammo was CCI Subsonic both times, but different lots years apart.

4. I swabbed out the chamber well the other day after shooting and ran a couple dry patches down the bore while I was at it. The chamber had gotten a bit sticky was why I bothered.

View attachment 605968 View attachment 605965
This was the setup. The front bag is a cradle rest for a VHS camcorder I got for $4 at the thrift store some years back. It's perfect for this! The rear bag was used for only the last two targets.

View attachment 605967
First 10-shot group. I shot five, adjusted the scope, and shot five more.

View attachment 605964
Second target, 10 shots. Finished sighting in.

View attachment 605966
Third target, again 10 shots. I watched those fliers appear while my crosshairs were clearly on the diamond. Adjusted one click up after this group.

View attachment 605963
Final group, 9 shots because I miscounted loading the magazine 🙄 I watched the two on the right appear on their own, but I'm pretty sure I helped the one on the left.

Questions:

1. Would those changes between last time shooting and this time shooting account for having to re-sight the scope?

2. Am I asking too much from CCI Subsonic to go into the same hole?

3. Would it help if I sorted the CCI Subsonic by weight and rim thickness? I can dispose of the outliers with my daughter's and son's .22s.

CCI Subsonic is my chosen hunting ammo, and I'd really like to improve the groups. It looks like it's capable; I just need to eliminate whatever's causing the fliers.

Sorry, but I would never expect anything CCI to go in the same hole.

 

Is there any hollow or flat point you'd recommend? I enjoy shooting groups, and I don't want to have to re-sight for a different load if I go hunting. I was looking at Eley Tennex, but am reading mixed results on here with Eley. SK, maybe? If it comes down to it, I can flatpoint them with a D Rock tool, so I'm not changing the bullet weight. The center of gravity will shift, though, so it's a last resort.

 

Sight in for your hunting rounds, groups for size don't have to be in the bull.

 

I prefer to not shoot out my aiming point doing groups; ie, a few clicks L or R to do groups is easy to come back to for your hunting rounds -0-.

 

Regarding this, would I have to clean the barrel when I switch, or could I just shoot a few rounds and have it be good?

Common wisdom was, I thought, that you find the ammo your rifle likes and season the bore to that ammo exclusively.

When I was shooting for groups before, I'd either put a bullet hole on the paper and use it for my aiming point, or is I'd print a series of periods using my printer.

On that last target, I think I could have done better, but it's like you say: I shot out my aiming point and what I was aiming at just grew.

 

This was the setup. The front bag is a cradle rest for a VHS camcorder I got for $4 at the thrift store some years back. It's perfect for this! The rear bag was used for only the last two targets.

Questions:

1. Would those changes between last time shooting and this time shooting account for having to re-sight the scope?

2. Am I asking too much from CCI Subsonic to go into the same hole?

3. Would it help if I sorted the CCI Subsonic by weight and rim thickness? I can dispose of the outliers with my daughter's and son's .22s.

CCI Subsonic is my chosen hunting ammo, and I'd really like to improve the groups. It looks like it's capable; I just need to eliminate whatever's causing the fliers.

A1. at 25 yards no! @ 50,75 or 100 yes.
A2. Yes, try better ammo.
A3. No, waste of time!

Recommendation, get rid of the $4 front bag and get a good bipod. the rifle may be rolling, moving, canted and could be causing you to change your cheek to stock weld. something is going on.

 

I had a bipod and got rid of it, but have a level attached to the scope and reference it. Maybe I'll try a bipod again. We'll see.

 

With a different lot of ammo, shooting in different conditions, once from an elevated position and once on the ground, after taking the rifle apart and putting it back together using lower middle tier ammo?

Yes, you will have to re-zero.

You would also have to re-zero after that many changes regardless of the rifle and ammo.

 

With a different lot of ammo, shooting in different conditions, once from an elevated position and once on the ground, after taking the rifle apart and putting it back together using lower middle tier ammo?

Yes, you will have to re-zero.

You would also have to re-zero after that many changes regardless of the rifle and ammo.

It always held zero pretty well between disassemblies. That much of a shift at 25yds was a surprise.

 

If you double your group sizes, it'd be consistent with what I get at 50yds with cci SSHP out of my savage mark ll rifles. Like you, I want to be able to hunt with these (squirrel), but over the last ten years or more this is about as good as it's gotten for me. There's just always flyers with this stuff, and some will be even more amplified at 50yds. I've found that most people that hunt with it in the squirrel woods, and swear by its accuracy are only shooting 20-25yds max. It'll do for head shots every time at that range for sure, but alot of my shots are 40-50yds or a tad more and each flyer equals a complete miss, or worse, a wounded animal. There's a few rifles out there that will shoot them very tightly but most of those rifles are well out of my price range. It'd be easier to try various SSHP ammo in your gun until you find one that shoots the way you want it to. Then refrain from disassembling, changing, tweaking anything once you get it sighted in with that ammo, and try to get several boxes of it just for hunting. The same lot number or brick of ammo preferably.

Scope parallax is often the culprit for slight poi changes from range session to range session. Shooting from a deck then from the ground forces a different cheek weld on the stock and can cause the slight difference your seeing, due to parallax change.

 

I agree with the parallax comment, it doesn't take much to move POI or open up a group.

 

Here are two examples to consider. These were shot with a Tikka T1X and Tac-22 ammo. Tac-22 shoots the same as CCI SV in my uses.

Looks pretty good doesn’t it. Target was shot at 25 yds. Warmed up barrel and checked zero hold with bottom three bulls, left to right.
I was surprised by how many made it into the inner circle.
Now for second example. Same rifle, same ammo. But at 50 yds.

Zero check on bottom row sighters.

First row is looking good for first three bulls. The dot in the fourth and fifth bulls were hit with the fifth shot in each round.
The second row started to look better but it keeps changing where groups want to center. And then along came the last five shots. Perfection. It only took 100 shots to find five that would hold a group that combined accuracy with precision.
It happens, sometimes.

 

I finished floating the barrel on my Savage MkII project rifle the other day, then sighted it in at 25 yards. I was trimming branches.

I stained the barrel channel and put it back together.

Today, I had to sight it back in because it was shooting high and right. The differences were:

1. Bright, direct sunlight the other day, overcast today.

2. Shooting from the deck the other day, shooting from the ground today. Both were prone. Last two targets were shot with a rear beanbag rest I used as a squeeze sock.

3. Ammo was CCI Subsonic both times, but different lots years apart.

4. I swabbed out the chamber well the other day after shooting and ran a couple dry patches down the bore while I was at it. The chamber had gotten a bit sticky was why I bothered.

View attachment 605968 View attachment 605965
This was the setup. The front bag is a cradle rest for a VHS camcorder I got for $4 at the thrift store some years back. It's perfect for this! The rear bag was used for only the last two targets.


First 10-shot group. I shot five, adjusted the scope, and shot five more.


Second target, 10 shots. Finished sighting in.


Third target, again 10 shots. I watched those fliers appear while my crosshairs were clearly on the diamond. Adjusted one click up after this group.


Final group, 9 shots because I miscounted loading the magazine 🙄 I watched the two on the right appear on their own, but I'm pretty sure I helped the one on the left.

Questions:

1. Would those changes between last time shooting and this time shooting account for having to re-sight the scope?

2. Am I asking too much from CCI Subsonic to go into the same hole?

3. Would it help if I sorted the CCI Subsonic by weight and rim thickness? I can dispose of the outliers with my daughter's and son's .22s.

CCI Subsonic is my chosen hunting ammo, and I'd really like to improve the groups. It looks like it's capable; I just need to eliminate whatever's causing the fliers.

Your pictures of your firing position makes me wonder if you are resting the barrel (or some part of it) on the pack. If so that will affect the accuracy.
I re read your earlier post on restocking the action and I might have missed it but what torque values did you give the action screws? As a side note, is there any chance the new action screws are bottoming out on the receiver and giving you a false torque value?

 

Your pictures of your firing position makes me wonder if you are resting the barrel (or some part of it) on the pack. If so that will affect the accuracy.
I re read your earlier post on restocking the action and I might have missed it but what torque values did you give the action screws? As a side note, is there any chance the new action screws are bottoming out on the receiver and giving you a false torque value?

I made sure the barrel wasn't touching, yessir.

I torqued the screws to 20in-lbs.

No, I'm using the 1" screws I bought. They engage a few threads; not nearly enough to bottom out. I'm attempting to make slightly longer screws, but they keep coming out a bit lopsided and I'm still working to figure out why.

 

I paid $60 for a used Mark II, it still is wearing the OEM plastic that everyone hates. Why? Because this is the first 20 rounds of bulk pack Federal I put through it at 25 yards, holding over the truck bed rails.

I actually was zeroing, so there’s one shot, move right and down and shoot 3, move a few clicks down and shoot 3, then say, well heck, let’s just see if it can keep hitting it.

So, 20 rounds with two scope adjustments…

I also have a newer FV SR, in a Boyd’s Spike Camp stock. Same excellent shooter, but heavier, wears a bipod, more scope, and a can.

 

It's quite possible a lot of it is me. I've not shot for groups in years, and the rifle setup is different -- it previously wore a thumbhole stock.

I'll keep playing with it, and we'll see.

 

That group with the $60 MkII is more what I expect from about any rifle with any bulk ammo and a decent shooter at only 25yd.

 

If it was me, I'd remove the sling. There's no telling how consistent the contact is between the stock and the front bag with the sling/swivel in the way.