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Sav22

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I almost hit the 'buy it now' button on this at $650, but at that price I was a very hesitant and wanted to be sure of a few details before I committed, so I had a few questions and called the seller, they were closed and I left a message, by the time they got back to me the gun had sold. It was not listed long. They did say if the sale didn't go through, I was next in line. Here's the listing, you can determine for yourselves if a Springfield 87a is worth anywhere near $650 plus shipping plus tax plus FFL fees.....
variation-springfield-stevens-87a
 
No rear sight
A bead front sight!?
(was the stock refinished?)

😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹🙀🙀🙀🙀

If you are interested that says a LOT pretty kool rifle but the no sight thing.. deal breaker
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
I hope you are kidding with your comments; this is a very rare, possibly one-of-a-kind version in 22 SHOT that looks original to me. I asked about the bore and it is bored oversize on the muzzle end to be a Routledge type. There doesn't appear to be any rear sight dovetail. The only other smoothbore that was similar had a plugged rear sight dovetail, was not marked with a maker or model in anyway and was probably a protype from the Savage R&D collection, it sold for a bid over $1150, so this one is about ½ that. That one also had a Routledge type bore. It had a lightened bolt, which I think would be necessary to cycle with shot cartridges, so I don't know if this one would cycle reliably since the bolt doesn't look like it was milled to lighten it in any way. I don't think shot cartridges would have enough recoil to cycle an action set up for regular cartridges.

I have an unused 22 SHOT barrel for a Model 5 bolt action that I had planned on putting on a Model 6 action, the 22 SHOT roll stamp looks the same.
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I had heard of one another one several years ago, but I did not see it, so it might have been this same one.
 
Its a shotgun! They dont have rear sights in case you havent noticed.
Thats got to be a scarce gun, Im sure from the time of the Mossberg Mo Skeet O, made to complete with them and Remington who also made a similar arm. If you like it, I'd nab it!
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
I have a Savage Model 220 in 22 SHOT with a Routledge bore as well as that barrel for a Model 5. The 220 has the bore off-center so a standard center fire receiver is used, it will accept any shotgun or rifle barrels from the 219/220 series. All these smoothbores would all be from around the same time and the roll stamps appear to be the same.
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I found a picture of the 22 SHOT semi-auto that sold a few years ago, you can see through the gills that the bolt has had at least the top milled down to lighten it. This is the one I think was an R&D experimental beacuse the only markings are 22 SHOT and some patents on the barrel and a number 2 on the front of the receiver.
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If you like it, I am very happy for you, I have an 87 rifled model with a removable magazine, at one point somebody went to the trouble to reblue it and refinish the stock, so it has no collector appeal, it does my rodent control, I use the old style crimped shot cartridges. I actually try to lock the bolt closed when using CB longs to keep noise down. Not worried about cycling.

They are neat old guns, the one you found is like a needle in a hay stack. If I was a collector, I would be super excited to have it. And would consider it money well spent.

I always wanted a smoothbore rimfire, but my practical use is so limited, I haven’t delegated the funds to one. I just use my rifled one and keep the shots under 10 ft.

Congratulations 😎😎
 
Interesting. A normal Stevens white birch stock system. An 8 slot left, but no slot right receiver with scope mount holes. Missing right gill probably helps with ejection making more room. The 87A roll stamp looks normal, just not an 87A in SLLR.

What is different is the barrel. Normal 24” barrel length. I see no hint of filled dovetails or metal changes.

I guess if you had your own barrel factory, pulling a part done barrel and doing a no rifling chambered end and a counter bore from the front would be no great trick.

Make a good 5 yard chipmunk gun.🙃

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As to ever working semi auto compared to manually feeding and locking, that would be a trick.

By selecting the lightest bolt and the lightest hammer types AND finding a bolt bottom with cutout and cam surfaces exactly matching with the host bolt AND using the softest hammer/bolt two spring set I could find, I assembled a second bolt set for a rifle that functions perfectly semi auto with CCI Quiet 45 grain 850fps ammo. Not the 710fps.
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It is annoyed bolt battering velocity wise with CCI SV and I would not even consider shooting LR HS in it. The shot shells are a mouse fart compared to the 45 grain Quiet.

There has to be energy to overcome
-bolt hammer inertia
-spring pressure
-AND be able to force the sear towers down in sequence.
-the last takes a lot of ooommmpph!

I would have loved to have something like that if it had been in serial production.

—————————-
(Did you get it or is it gone gone?)
 
The .22 Shot power problem if semi auto function is the goal.

Velocity x Grains ./. 1000 =

Solids
57—CCI Velocitor 40@1435
52—CCI Stinger 32@1640
49—-CCI MiniMag 40@1235
44—CCI Suppressor 45@970
41—-CCI SV 40@1070
38—-CCI Quiet Semi Auto 45@835
31—-CCI Short RN 29@1080
30—CCI Short HP 27@1105
28—CCI Quiet Original Slow 40@710
21—-CCI CB Short & Long 29@710

Shot
31—CCI Shot 31@1000
25—Federal 25@1000

The paper power of the shot cartridges is at the .22 Short level if CCI Shot and nearer the CB level if Federal Shot.

Compounding functioning is that the longer than long rifle crimped folded Shot case increases extraction effort and needs a longer bolt travel to cycle. With the long heavy parts of the Savage system and cycle no matter how much lightened, rock bottom power to achieve semi auto function is probably just not there. So a good try and relegated to a tool room design model.

Seemingly a good engineering effort, but wise not to put into serial production, when perfect function was available with any single-shot or magazine fed .22LR.

Noteworthy is that the .22 Short versions worked in part from lightening the bolt and hammer and springs AND only required a reduced from Long Rifle bolt travel to cycle. All meaning less energy was needed for semi auto function.
 
Discussion starter · #13 · (Edited)
Compounding functioning is that the longer than long rifle crimped folded Shot case increases extraction effort and needs a longer bolt travel to cycle. With the long heavy parts of the Savage system and cycle, rock bottom power to achieve semi auto function is probably just not there. So a good try and relegated to a tool room design model.
I agree, the one being sold looks to have a heavy bolt so I don't think it would even come close to cycling. I still am on the waiting list for that gun if the sale doesn't go through, I took too long thinking about hitting the 'buy it now'.

The unused barrel I have is made for a model 5 bolt action and has the integral lower feed ramp needed for a tube feed. It does not have the milled slots for an upper guide needed for the tube fed semi-auto's. I bought a Model 6 to put it on, a nice one without scope mount holes, which would not make sense on a smoothbore. I also bought a set of bolt parts with the light hammer for a 22 SHORT version... but I didn't realize until I got them that they are for a shorter stroke and cannot be made to work in a long rifle action.

I have a prototype pump action that went through a fire that has a really bad Model 5 barrel on it and damage to the wood. I bought a Model 5 barrel & mag tube for replacements, but if I do work on it, I might just use the 22 SHOT barrel, there would be no problems with it cycling shot cartridges as a pump.

Here are two protype pumps based on the models 5 & 6 tube fed actions. They both use the same tube feeding parts as the Model 5 & 6 but have the thicker lifter typical of the bolt action Model 5. The lever on the front side of the trigger guard is the action release. Savage must have been considering adding a pump action to the Model 3, 4, 5, 6, & 7 series.

This first one is documented as coming from the savage R&D collection that was sold off in 1988, it has a shorter action than the Model's 5 & 6 but is basically the same from the rear of the ejection port forward.
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Here's the 'fire sale special', it has the same length receiver as a Model 6, and the same rear plug. It was acquired from the inventory of a gun store that was liquidated by a lawyer to help pay for him defending the store owner on arson & insurance fraud charges.
... yea, it could use a little work... It would make a neat shotgun. It is not documented as being an R&D gun, but it has enough similarities to the other that it probably is, just an earlier version.
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All the springs are still good, even the magazine spring, so it does function. The bore is bad and shows no rifling left... but it is far from smooth! The barrel has the standard Savage Model 5 markings - a least the ones that still can be read.

EDITED in later - here's an interesting variation from Argentina that kind of fits in with the subject of this thread, the company first made a copy of the Model 6 semi-auto before coming out with this. From the very little information on these I could find they had problems with the levers breaking.
Saurio Modelo 700
 
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