The rifle is listed for .22 short & longs, and has been fired with those, no problems. Shorts and longs have been hard to get for quite some time now. Would it hurt to use 22 lr ammo, SV or HS ammo in this rifle? Other than a little patina, it's in great shape. Mostly a wall hanger, but once in a blue moon I like to shoot it, and my box of shorts is almost empty.
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GBertolet
Have you tried to chamber up a Long Rifle cartridge? I actually hope it doesnt fit so you wont be tempted.
LR ammo has increased in pressure since its early production days and that rifle being made and chamber marked as Short or Long was when they were even lower pressure rounds.
I cant verify it but in the back of my mind (such as it is....) the Short HV loadings for the past many years has been more pressure than original LR ammo. If I ever see some std. velo Shorts for sale I might have to grab 'em.
Btw, one of my best friends had a childhood pal that died when the bolt blew out of his 'boys rifle'. You can imagine where it went.
LR ammo has increased in pressure since its early production days and that rifle being made and chamber marked as Short or Long was when they were even lower pressure rounds.
I cant verify it but in the back of my mind (such as it is....) the Short HV loadings for the past many years has been more pressure than original LR ammo. If I ever see some std. velo Shorts for sale I might have to grab 'em.
Btw, one of my best friends had a childhood pal that died when the bolt blew out of his 'boys rifle'. You can imagine where it went.
22 lr chambers with no interference. Just curious, as there was only 22 short and longs back then, so no 22 lr's to designate on the barrel. If the 22 lr is that much higher in pressure, it might not be a good idea to use them. I guess I could try the CCI Quiet lr ammo, which is lighter, or CB's, as they are readily available.
I know the later 04A rifles were in fact chambered for Short, Long & Extra Long so it might be possible to shoot Long Rifle in it, but I wouldn't do so. The action on the 1904 is not very robust, and I wouldn't take the risk to rifle (or rifle shooter) 
that entails. I would be more inclined to lay in a good store of 22 Short ammo and let it go at that.
Shooting ANY firearm with ammunition other than what is marked on the barrel presents some level of risk. Why risk it?
BRP
that entails. I would be more inclined to lay in a good store of 22 Short ammo and let it go at that.Shooting ANY firearm with ammunition other than what is marked on the barrel presents some level of risk. Why risk it?
BRP
Gbertolet, if you go on Ammoseek.com you will find .22 short ammo forsale, and sometimes .22 long. I would not shoot LR in your rifle. No since taking a chance. Especially if the correct ammo is available.
I have a 1904 that is chambered for shorts, longs, and extra longs, and I have fired long rifles in it but no high velocity loadings. I believe you would be OK with something like Quiets or CB longs.
I think the 04A was actually chambered and marked for long rifles, so the action should be stout enough, although I would definitely steer clear of any HV ammo.
I think the 04A was actually chambered and marked for long rifles, so the action should be stout enough, although I would definitely steer clear of any HV ammo.
Later 1904's were indeed chambered for the EXTRA LONG and the 22 LONG RIFLE.
However, the first Model 1904 rifles were marked only for the 22 SHORT and 22 LONG. As noted above, the twist rate on the early 1904 rifles is probably for those calibers, and not for the faster 22 cartridges. Shooting anything else will probably produce poor accuracy.
I will stick by my recommendation that the rifle only be used for the calibers it was intended to shoot.
BRP
However, the first Model 1904 rifles were marked only for the 22 SHORT and 22 LONG. As noted above, the twist rate on the early 1904 rifles is probably for those calibers, and not for the faster 22 cartridges. Shooting anything else will probably produce poor accuracy.
I will stick by my recommendation that the rifle only be used for the calibers it was intended to shoot.
BRP
There's no mystery here, BL.
According to the big Winchester book by Madis (p 492), the earliest 1904 rifles were chambered in 22 SHORT & LONG. Somewhat later, the 1904 added the EXTRA LONG.
As is the case in so many Winchester models, there was an evolutionary process at work, with changes over time.
All the best---
BRP
According to the big Winchester book by Madis (p 492), the earliest 1904 rifles were chambered in 22 SHORT & LONG. Somewhat later, the 1904 added the EXTRA LONG.
As is the case in so many Winchester models, there was an evolutionary process at work, with changes over time.
All the best---
BRP
Bottom line is DO NOT SHOOT L.R AMMO IN IT. Buy the shorts and be done with it. As far as that goes, I would not shoot the L.R. in an Extra Long chamber as well. The statement "well it fits" means little when it comes to common sense and safety. The last yr/yr and a half of manufacture the 04-A was chambered in the L.R. and are very hard to get.
winman
winman
.22 Ammo is once again plentiful and manufacturers are producing Short and Long ammo in various configurations starting with CBs on up. Any good gun shop should have it for you. CCI has been putting out Shorts and Longs, even getting back into .17HM2, an under appreciated caliber perfect for squirrel.
I do not understand why people insist on using ammo other than what a firearm is designed for. Get the right ammo and be done with it. One's desire to make something other than what it is does not make it so.
I do not understand why people insist on using ammo other than what a firearm is designed for. Get the right ammo and be done with it. One's desire to make something other than what it is does not make it so.
When our Sportmans Whse. got a large load of 22 longs, being the GB I am, I bought them all. Then they got various kinds of 22 shorts, so I stocked up on those as well.
I have a M1885 SS with many options. At 50 yards it was all over the target despite the fact the rifle has a #3 bbl. and set triggers. Then my buddy used CCI standards and got a 10 for 10 at 50 yards. I am glad my store got different kinds of shorts so I could see the true accuracy of my M1885. They work well in my M1873 22 short as well. I still buy a few of this type ammo every time I visit the store. never know when we will have another shortage. Big Larry
I have a M1885 SS with many options. At 50 yards it was all over the target despite the fact the rifle has a #3 bbl. and set triggers. Then my buddy used CCI standards and got a 10 for 10 at 50 yards. I am glad my store got different kinds of shorts so I could see the true accuracy of my M1885. They work well in my M1873 22 short as well. I still buy a few of this type ammo every time I visit the store. never know when we will have another shortage. Big Larry
I was the original poster and have purchased some .22 shorts. The big box store did not have any (no surprise based on what I have researched). I went to a big box "sporting goods" store. They had a large shelf area dedicated to .22 ammo. All different manufacturer's and quantity's. They had one mfg./qty of shorts. So I bought a 100 rounds. I think I am safe, and all set.
They are the smallest bullets I have ever seen. Almost like toy bullets. Yea, I realize they are not, but man they are small...
They are the smallest bullets I have ever seen. Almost like toy bullets. Yea, I realize they are not, but man they are small...
Update, 4/25. I put a barrel liner in the 1904, a 1-16 twist barrel. I had a .22 LR reamer, and that's what I made it. I purchased the liner and drill from Brownell's. They were running a special, so I got a slight discount. Still ran about $125. The barrel rifling was gone, probably due to corrosive ammo, and never being cleaned by it's previous owner(s). I used a cordless drill to ream the barrel. The drill is 5/16", same as the O.D. of the liner, and has a long pilot. Due to the drill length, it had to be drilled from both ends of the barrel. Neatness of the drilling is not critical. The epoxy covers up all. As long as the liner slides in with light resistance, you are good.
The liner is marked on which end to cut the chamber. I think it has something to do with which direction the rifling is cut from. I found it was easier to cut the chamber before installation. I coated the liner with Acraglas Gel, and twisting it during installation, to spread the Acraglas. I put a round in the liner's chamber, and with the bolt in the receiver, I had the liner slide up snugly against the bolt. This guarantees headspace is perfect. Just make sure no Acraglas comes out, or is left in the receiver.
The Acraglas set up in a few hours, and I let it sit overnight. I hack sawed the excess liner off at the muzzle, filed it smooth, and cleaned up the muzzle with lapping compound on a brass screw. At the chamber, a few strokes with a needle file, cut the extractor groove. The design of this rifle lends itself to very easy relining.
The rifle was acquired with a home made rear sight. I found a period correct sight on ebay, and installed it. The rifle now shoots great. Better than I can possibly hold it. The rounds chamber and extract easily. Before, I had to pry out the empties with a pocket knife. I used some Remington 22 LR, SV ammo, for initial testing and use. Someday, after I am gone, some kid somewhere, is going to get a neat little rifle.
Please excuse the winded dissertation, as 90% here already know how to do this. This is dedicated to the 10% who don't know how, and might be interested.
The liner is marked on which end to cut the chamber. I think it has something to do with which direction the rifling is cut from. I found it was easier to cut the chamber before installation. I coated the liner with Acraglas Gel, and twisting it during installation, to spread the Acraglas. I put a round in the liner's chamber, and with the bolt in the receiver, I had the liner slide up snugly against the bolt. This guarantees headspace is perfect. Just make sure no Acraglas comes out, or is left in the receiver.
The Acraglas set up in a few hours, and I let it sit overnight. I hack sawed the excess liner off at the muzzle, filed it smooth, and cleaned up the muzzle with lapping compound on a brass screw. At the chamber, a few strokes with a needle file, cut the extractor groove. The design of this rifle lends itself to very easy relining.
The rifle was acquired with a home made rear sight. I found a period correct sight on ebay, and installed it. The rifle now shoots great. Better than I can possibly hold it. The rounds chamber and extract easily. Before, I had to pry out the empties with a pocket knife. I used some Remington 22 LR, SV ammo, for initial testing and use. Someday, after I am gone, some kid somewhere, is going to get a neat little rifle.
Please excuse the winded dissertation, as 90% here already know how to do this. This is dedicated to the 10% who don't know how, and might be interested.
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