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Premium Ammo

1.2K views 19 replies 9 participants last post by  Drpietrzak  
#1 · (Edited)
I have a rifle that reliably groups around 1/2 MOA center to center at 50 yards with a lot of premium ammo that was produced in the mid 1980s. Should I expect to achieve similar performance with currently produced premium ammo? I’m not having much luck and have become reluctant to blindly search for something that doesn’t exist.

For what it’s worth, the old ammo that shoots so well is Tenex. I tried some 2025 Tenex; of ten 5-shot groups not one was under a half inch CTC.

Once burned, twice shy.
 
#2 ·
If your rifle was capable of those groups with the right ammo then I feel sure that will be an ammo that will fill the bill made today, just the quest to find out what that current ammo is.

You do not list what the 80's ammo was and if it was domestically produced match ammo then you will not find that level of domestically produced match ammo today.

But surely something in Lapua, Eley or SK will fill the bill although some is very hard to source and find right now,
All of the match grade ammo is pretty much coming out of Europe these days and recent times Lapua and SK have been a lot harder to consistently find than Eley.

But getting into the more consistent actual match grade premium ammo expect for the prices to start at around $14 a box of 50 and can go up up into the $20's for certain top flavors of some harder to find brands.
 
#3 ·
As a general statement, it's not hyperbole to say that true .22LR match ammo is as good or better today than it ever was, with the exception, perhaps, of Eley. In recent years Eley has been in less demand, often making it easier to find.

A rifle that consistently shoots 1/2 MOA (0.25") five shot groups at 50 yards is a rifle that shoots well. There should be many lots of Lapua Midas + that should do well in such a rifle, even lots of Center X. SK varieties are an entry level match or target ammo and will not usually be competitive with Lapua.
 
#4 ·
A rifle that consistently shoots 1/2 MOA (0.25") five shot groups at 50 yards is a rifle that shoots well. There should be many lots of Lapua Midas + that should do well in such a rifle, even lots of Center X. SK varieties are an entry level match or target ammo and will not usually be competitive with Lapua.
I know many times when reading about different premium barrel makers or custom gun builders is it not true that the chamber that such builder chooses to use can actually in general favor Lapua over Eley or vice versa?
I know this is the way I have interpreted some talk about high end builds when it comes to rimfires.

I may be wrong though but I feel I have seen this referenced on numerous occasions to perhaps hold some credence to the theory.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I'm quite sure there is a batch of currently produced match or premium grade .22s that will do the job properly for you and your rifle. The problem is to find it.

Here in Germany there's no problem to get to buy "Match Grade" or "Premium" .22 ammo, e. g. RWS, Eley or SK. But ammo prices generally keep skyrocketing, the only way is up... so buying ammo is always a good investment.

R50 and R100, or Tenex are reaching or even beyond 30 Dollars (calculated from Euros to Bucks) for a pack of 50 rounds. Graduated prices depending on the ordered amount can lead to slightly lower prices per box.

Within my shooting club, I've never seen someone using this kind of "Premium" ammo on a regular base. Most of them use (in rifles) CCI Standard, Eley Club, or other ammo up to the price and performance level of RWS Rifle Match or Special Match.

On the pistol ranges, you mostly encounter 40grs LRN SV or Pistol Match grade ammo of different brands, with CCI SV quite dominating the scene.

HV loads are not so popular on the range. These are only used in guns that require powerful "food" to function properly, or for fun in sturdy revolvers.

Concerning rifle shooting, I'm really (!) not such a good shot that I could feel the difference in performance between standard and premium ammunition, apart from the emptiness I would feel in my purse after buying premium ammo.

My Ruger 10/22 and Anschütz 54 Match get their Eley Club, CCI SV and sometimes RWS Rifle Match, or whatever crosses my way, so I can test some rounds.

I shoot my Hämmerli 215 more often, because I favour shooting handguns, achieving far better results. It gobbles up everything from Subsonic HP over SV to HV. But I usually don't torture it with HV ammo.

When it comes to pistol shooting, reliability and good functioning (no FTF or squib loads) is the most important factor for me. A quality match pistol will hold the 10 ring with nearly any standard level ammo. The rest depends on the shooter.

If you want to be a top shooter with a rifle, the right ammo choice is a much more important factor than with handguns, as the distance is longer and the center of the target much smaller.
 
#7 ·
Short answer: Yes.
As pointed out, one-half MOA at 50 is .25.
My reason for saying yes: I shoot an an unsanctioned match that includes a stage of 25 scoring shots at 50, sighters allowed. The 10 ring is such that if you want to collect all 250 possible points, you need to be right around 1/2 moa.
I shoot a self-build CZ/Lilja that will easily/regularly bring it in as long as I can do my part. Quite a few of the guys I shoot with will nearly always drop no more than a few points at 50 yards, and the rigs include plenty of CZ/Liljas, Annies, Vudoos, full customs, etc. This from any two piece rest a guy would like. I use an Arnold mechanical rest in the back and an Accu-Tac bipod up front. I use a good scope: A Sightron SV 10-50 ED.
Also, just fyi re Eley, plenty of guys are still getting those groups with Eley Match or Eley Tenex. If we weren't, we'd never reorder the stuff. Most of us do lot test and/or tune, btw. I'm shooting a lot right now that will make me drop a tear or two when it's gone.
Personally, I usually go with Eley Match 'cause it can be restocked pretty easily and I'm trying to top out my match ammo cost at nor more than $15 per 50. Nothing magic about that number, but since I'm not shooting a nationally sanctioned gig and we're talking about a maximum of winning back one's match fee and braggin rights, a guy's got to stop the outflow of cash somewhere, I figure.
 
#8 ·
I want to believe. So much that I bought 3 bricks of 2025 Tenex - hoping that new production ammo would match or surpass the 40 year old lot I have. I figured that some lots would be better than others but that all would be good. That wasn’t the case. I contacted Eley and they shared their Certificate of Performance with me - only two of the 20 groups they show meet the 1/2 MOA spec. I couldn’t get a single 1 MOA group out of it. My 40 year old Tenex shot .21 and some SK Match shot .28 that same day. If Eley can’t get 1/2 MOA in a tunnel with a machine rest what hope do I have outdoors?
 
#14 ·
Eleys machines that run the ammo are worn out and due to be rebuilt. Lapua just so happens to have better tolerances on their machines right now. And that is why Lapua is making better ammo right now. As Lapuas machines get a little more worn, Eley might have rebuilt their machines and are now holding a better tolerance. It is like this every 10 years or so. Brand switch on whois on top.

If you have been shooting rimfires as long as some this happens.
 
#15 ·
Oh boy, there is a lot of dust in the air with this thread. I'm gonna drop some comments in the OP's questions:

I have a rifle that reliably groups around 1/2 MOA center to center at 50 yards with a lot of premium ammo that was produced in the mid 1980s.

- Ok, sounds good.

Should I expect to achieve similar performance with currently produced premium ammo?

- What indication or data point would make you think otherwise?

I’m not having much luck and have become reluctant to blindly search for something that doesn’t exist.

- How much effort / money have you thrown at this and what are your expectations as to an adequate amount of money to be thrown?

For what it’s worth, the old ammo that shoots so well is Tenex. I tried some 2025 Tenex; of ten 5-shot groups not one was under a half inch CTC.

- What is some? 5 lots, 20 lots?


I think the issues here are expectations relating to effort. Gonna drop a few observations in my time in the industry:

1. Top shooters spend a lot of time testing ammo to find the right lot to match their rifle. It's not an inexpensive task and there is no short-cut to top results. At times good ammo can be hard to find while at others it seems like a number of lots are smokin' hot.

2. The further you are up stream, the better you results will be. In that if you can visit the factory or ship the rifle to a test center, chances are in your favor of finding a good lot of ammo for your rifle when compared to buying at your local store or from a dealer who sells by the brick or doesn't keep a good handle of lot inventory.

3. If you are looking for accuracy and the first three groups don't look good, you can stop shooting that lot of ammunition. There is no need to keep shooting groups. It's easy to rule out bad ammo, it takes more work to accept / prove out good ammo.

4. If funds are limited and you can only afford to buy a few bricks here and there, then it's a bit of a crap-shoot. Just gotta do the best you can and can afford.

5. Back in the late Bob Collins days at Eley ( Bob was a true gentleman ), he would be upfront about which lots seemed to be selling out the fastest. He wouldn't tell you who was buying, but just saying that some lots were clearly performing better for multiple shooters than others. If you only had the funds for a few bricks, it's a hint to buy from those hot lots.

6. Often times you would find a killer lot, only to see it had sold out before you had the chance to order more. It was a frustrating part of the game. You had to order right away, test ASAP, and then get your case(s) on the way ( hopefully ).

7. At the big testing centers, I have seen shooters, me being one of them, who purchase the entire production run of a killer lot of ammo. Usually around 3 to 4 cases of the same lot at a time, depending on what they had remaining. When you find something that works and are competing, that's what you gotta do.

8. Don't compare your results to the competitive world of rimfire BR; it's about as far from a level playing field as you can get in the world of rimfire. I watched the late Bill Myers test 5 different rifles at ARA nationals one year, pulling from a truck load of ammo, No less than a dozen different lots to test from, and then settling on the rifle and ammo for him to compete with. If I remember correctly, 6 of the top 20 shooters shared a rifle that year. Him and his wife might have also shared, but I can't remember. Just know that the equipment list doesn't tell you how many lots of Eley or Lapua or whatever didn't make the cut, and what rifles at that time weren't up to snuff on that particular day. So for sake of discussion, if he had 5 differnet Hall actions, but only one shot well, 1 out of 5, is the Hall a good action? Well, if he won with a Hall, then maybe yes, but if four others were turds, maybe no. 1 out of 5 don't seem like good odds. My point here is you are blind to what didn't work. Blind to how many turd lots were passed over. If shooters are sharing a gun, then what was the other one that they felt wasn't up to the task? You'll never know. And I'm a big fan of Hall actions, they are just an example for this discussion.

My point is just be aware of the lottery system you're playing in with this. The more lottery tickets you buy, the better your chances.
 
#16 ·
Thanks for the detailed discussion. Much appreciated.

My post, above, from a couple of days ago, addresses most of your questions. I’ll try to respond more completely later on.

The bottom line is that I expected the lot testing exercise to be one of choosing from among the best of the best, not weeding out the mediocre.
 
#18 ·
My eye-opener years ago was a lot testing episode at 100 yds. Five lots, same brand, same flavor. And FWIW, one of the lots was one removed from the stuff that won at Camp Perry. The one-removed was printing 0.85" CTC ten-shot groups, prone. That's okay for me. Of the other lots, not one would go under 2.5".

It's in the lot. If you want half-MOA accuracy, you will have to lot-test. There's no going to the LGS and asking for a box of the blue stuff or whatever, and expect it to shoot to to a half MOA.
 
#19 ·
Thanks to all for the thoughtful, objective replies. They’re what I needed to see, but not what I wanted to learn. I just checked availability from the vendors in Georgia and Texas. One has nine lots of Tenex, all from 2024, but doesn’t sell in quantities less than a brick. So close to $2K to test those lots. The other has ten lots, all from 2025 and sells single boxes, they only have a few boxes of most lots so ordering more if I like some is unlikely. Lapua isn’t available OTC anywhere. So I’ll deal with what I have for now and wait for better opportunities.
 
#20 ·
1.) I have a rifle that reliably groups around 1/2 MOA center to center at 50 yards with a lot of premium ammo that was produced in the mid 1980s.
2.) Should I expect to achieve similar performance with currently produced premium ammo?
3.) I’m not having much luck and have become reluctant to blindly search for something that doesn’t exist.
4.) The ammo that shoots so well is Tenex. I tried some 2025 Tenex; of ten 5-shot groups not one was under a half inch CTC.
5.) Once burned, twice shy.
Hum.

1.) A gun that consistently shoot 0.25" or less at 50-Yards is pretty decent. No matter what era. Great! My best shooter shot an average of 0.29 in session 1 (0.16, 0.20, 0.43, 0.33, 0.31) and 0.36 in session 2 (0.55, 0.25, 0.31, 0.48, 0.22, 0.36). But is has to be "good" ammo. Keep that one!
2.) I do this we current production ammo, but it varies by ammo lot. I have had the best success with this rifle using Lapua Long Range and SK Pistol Match Special. So if that seems reasonable.
3.) It is a constant search. There are significant variations from lot to lot. Your best "bet" is to send to a testing center and have your gun tested for the best ammo options.
4.) A half and inch at 50 years is 1 moa not 1/2 moa. Lapua and Eley have been able to stay under 0.50" at 50-Yards. The Eley is far less common for me with my rig.
5.) Ammo test center seems your best bet.