One answer to the dreaded carbon ring conundrum and the prevention thereof:
Dewey's makes a brass pistol rod in 4", 6" or 9". I've got a few of the 9" that I leave in the tray on my TIpton's vice.
One of those rods has a mop for C-4, one has a brush, one has a dry mop.
When I get home from the range, I immediately pull the bolt on my bolt-actions and insert the one with a wet C-4 mop.That mop stays in for 30 or more minutes or more while I do other stuff. Then I use the rod with brush, then follow with the dry mop. That's it for chamber work.
Works pretty well, easy to do.
Then I pull a C-4 patch & pellet through the bore (Patchworm) followed by a few dry patches. Then it's time to clean the bolt and the receiver and call it a clean rifle.
View attachment 388778

Excuse my ignorance, but I keep seeing C-4 and not sure what it is. Only used a couple cleaners in my lifetime.

 

Yep, it's this stuff:

C4 Carbon Remover

Cutting through carbon fouling on your firearm is a breeze with C4 Carbon Remover from Bore Tech. Even the most stubborn baked-on carbon is no match for this carbon remover. For the best carbon removing chemicals for gun cleaning, you have to choose Bore Tech. Shop our entire collection of bore...

www.boretech.com

As to how good it is or isn't, I like it.
I'd previously used things including Kroil, Hoppes No. 9, Ballistol, and contact cleaner.
Personally, I like the C-4 for cleaning a rimfire chamber.

 

I wasn't impressed with it, but Carbon Remover Solvent | Find the Best C4 Carbon Cleaner for Guns - Bore Tech

 

👍

 

You only need to use a few drops on the mop or patch. I bought a 16-oz bottle 2-3 years ago and still going. I put some in a small eye lube bottle and 4-5 drops at a time. A bottle in the range bag lets me get a head start before I leave.

 

I've heard a lot about C-4 but never used it, how does soaking with Hoppes #9 compare to it in real world as that's what I've always used and have an abundance of?

 

Hoppes 9 is my favorite aroma. I’ve thought about using it for after shave.

 

I basically use Mark1964's nicely detailed procedure after 50 rounds or more. Made my life easier

 

Thanks, dude. I thought some guys might appreciate the Dewey rod usage. Personally, I like that they're in the tray, set up and ready to go.
After a match or whatnot, I like to get 'em cleaned up and put up with minimal hassle and time investment. I'm far more interested in a little lunch or dinner. 🍔

 

Any of the above solvent will work great if instead of waiting till you get home you put a bore mop with your choice of solvent on the mop , then insert mop in your chamber and leave it there till you get home. Once home commence on your preferred cleaning regime, you will never have to remove a hard carbon ring ever.

I prefer to just clean them at the range.

 

Thanks for posting this. I have two new .22 weapons that I bought recently and haven't fired
them much due to uncertainty about ammunition. I've got enough .22LR stockpiled now, so I am itching
to get out and burn some. (if one ever has enough .22)... Been waiting for good weather. North country Winter gives up slow.

Anyway, I'll try this method. One of the reasons I signed up here is to learn a few things. And at my age too...

*grins
I bought this 10/22 (below) in 2021 and sighted it in shooting very careful three shot groups. At that time, to see a box of .22 whatever was to buy it. Now that we are seeing more ammo available I'm anxious to run some different kinds of ammo through it to see what it likes. My old 10/22 that I lamentably sold in 2019 used to prefer Remington SV ammo.

Who would have ever thunk that Remington would blow up and sink? That's mismanagement and criminal swindling on a massive scale by guys in silk shirts with neckties. So I'll be looking for some dependable ammo... right now CCI SV seems like a contender. (I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they are all made in the same factory in China or something like that).

But I'm cynical.

 

@PEASHOOTER67
@Fasteddie01

Oh, you wascally wabbits ... you've inspired me to find a little Visine-style bottle and put some C4 in it for my .22lr match rifle bag!

 

@PEASHOOTER67
@Fasteddie01

Oh, you wascally wabbits ... you've inspired me to find a little Visine-style bottle and put some C4 in it for my .22lr match rifle bag!

Make sure you mark the bottle. You wouldn't want someone to think it's Visine and put a few drops in their eye.

 

Im now inspired to go C-4 all my chambers. By the time I get a fat C-4 Q-tip in all to soak it will be time to finish up the one I started with.
Ive found regular use of C-4 makes sliding a cartridge in so slick, and that effect lasts longer than ever before.
At first I wasnt impressed, and a few rifles too 'some scrubbing'; after I learned the 'soak' things got better and after resolving to use C-4 regularly better again.
Yeah, its expensive. So what, I know I waste more on stupid stuff that doesnt do me near as much good. The big bottle amounts to about 5 coffee's here.

 

Mark1964, I started using the visine bottle when I got the C4, mainly 'cause it costs cc $65 here in Canada The small bottle lets me dole out tiny drops, BUT Major Warning . . . Don't crank the cap too much, they're pretty soft. Made for disposal I guess. I've broken a couple and they don't 'glue back' very well. I started taking one to the range when someone said soaking b4 leaving gives extra time 'in the bore'.

 

I have 3 benchrest rifles that all shoot very, very well. I wouldn't know a carbon ring if one came up and bit me. Regular cleaning when I finish a session and brush whenever I happen to think of it and no C4.

 

You apparently never allowed a carbon ring to develop. Much easier to deal with iffn it aint there

 

Maybe the carbon ring isn't the problem some seem to think it is. I don't know.

 

I’m pretty sure the concerns with the dreaded carbon ring started with the bench rest gang. And for them it is a real concern. They measure their groups down to the thousands of an inch . And can likely see a little difference. But for the casual shooter and hunter it’s not likely to make any meaningful difference. I clean my 22 rifles when I think about it or can’t remember when I last cleaned it , most days my plinking and small game rifles will shoot half inch or a little better a 50 yards . The days they don’t I’m the likely problem and not a carbon ring. But in the end just do what you feel the need to do and don’t be concerned with what you read on the internet. That’s my none professional opinion, and nothing more.

 

I shoot a game that is essentially non-sanctioned benchrest, although we use our own unusual targets at four yardages over the course of a match. The four stages are timed. There are 85 shots for score and there are 850 points possible. To be competitive, you can leave very few points on the board.
We definitely bring out the magnified scoring plugs every match. No one's ever shot a perfect score. Over a few years, highest score is 841.
We are insane.
And we will take any fraction of an inch we can get.

 

If you're just shooting cans and stuff, the 'ring' prob won't matter. If you're trying to keep around 1/2" groups @ 50+, that ring can throw a shot off. Especially the first 1 or 2 'colder ones'. When the ring warms up it softens and 'may not' affect the shot. If you can't have 2-3 'warm-up' shots, the ring will show itself. I can do a 50yd+ squirrel head with 3-4 of my 8x 22s . . . a couple aren't up to it.

 

Also, even when you're just scoring a simple X or O on a 250 yard swinging silhouette, what had been a wee fraction at 50 might be enough to turn an edge hit into a miss. You just gotta make it move, not leave a big gray blotch in the center.
Personally, I'll take whatever help I can get ... even if it's just psychological comfort.
It's rimfire. Lots of stuff we cannot control. Might as well work on the small things we can.

 

Ahhh the dreaded carbon ring conundrum. Most of my guns don't shoot for crap until properly fouled. Sometimes it's 20 rounds sometimes its 200. If I cleaned the bore after every trip worried about the carbon ring, I would have to throw that many shots in the garbage at the beginning of each session.

I have had guns that have first shot cold bore fliers that may have been the result of carbon rings. When it's a bench gun, no biggie. Just warm up the gun. When it was a hunting rifle, I get rid of it or resign it to informal shooting. You can't have an unpredictable first shot when hunting.

The conundrum is if I clean the carbon to get rid of the first shot flyer, I screw up the accuracy on all shots. Now I only brush clean bores when the accuracy tanks. Some of my guns haven't been cleaned in hundreds or even thousands of rounds and have never shot better.

 

@Col Mustard
I didn't meet these strange rimfire people into a few years ago. And I'd never heard of a carbon ring.
While I still don't measure groups routinely, just score 'em, I do now hang out with maniacs who go to extraordinary lengths to beat each other. We're not even shooting sanctioned paper or steel matches -- just club matches. Yet you name it, and it's on the line ... tricked out CZs and Tikkas, Anschutz, Vudoo, Win 52s and Rem 40X, full-house customs, etc.
There are dudes shooting Tenex, RWS R 50, Midas +, etc
Where did these crazies come from, and how is that I fell in with them?
One day I was cruising along, money in the checkbook and everything ... and then boom, down the rabbit hole.

 

@Col Mustard
I didn't meet these strange rimfire people into a few years ago. And I'd never heard of a carbon ring.
While I still don't measure groups routinely, just score 'em, I do now hang out with maniacs who go to extraordinary lengths to beat each other. We're not even shooting sanctioned paper or steel matches -- just club matches. Yet you name it, and it's on the line ... tricked out CZs and Tikkas, Anschutz, Vudoo, Win 52s and Rem 40X, full-house customs, etc.
There are dudes shooting Tenex, RWS R 50, Midas +, etc
Where did these crazies come from, and how is that I fell in with them?
One day I was cruising along, money in the check book and everything ... and then boom, down the rabbit hole.

It’s just the competitive nature of a man.

 

My routine is to clean about 1/2 an hour after the last round is fired. Three patches wet with Hoppes 9 and then a chamber mop dipped in Hoppes gets popped in. A couple hours later( can be less, this just fits the timing of other events of a typical day) the chamber gets 100 strokes with a plastic brush. Time for three dry patches. After 43K rounds the bore of this rifle has never seen a brush.

Today the first shot was high(always is) and the next four were a 1/4 inch group. I have had carbon rings form a couple times. Both times it was near the end of a session(around 100 rounds) when shooting in temps below 5F/-15C.

There are lots of ways to do this but I haven't heard of one easier, less expensive or requiring fewer fouling shots. This is rimfire ... your mileage may vary.

 

RTV65 - If you read up and comprehend, you'll find that most are NOT suggesting cleaning the WHOLE BORE every XXXX shots. Just cleaning the CHAMBER where the CARBON RING develops. However, watching 'those bench nutz' in matches, the upper levels often clean THE BORE every 'card' which is 25 + sighters (and foulers).
YMMV and so will your targets.

 

True stuff. I'm a proponent of light bore cleaning. For the bore, I get out the rod and nylon brush about 3 or 4 times per year. Rest of the time, patchworm, pellets and patches are fine for me.
Other than the soak time for the chamber, I can clean my match .22s in 15 minutes.
In fact, I personally think there's not much easier to clean than a bolt-action .22lr that's been running Euro target ammo.

 

Acetone dissolves carbon, so it can be used to soak a carbon ring and soften it up, if you can't find any C4. Cheaper, too.

 

Just don't get any on the wood stock finish!

 

I am not a purist, just a shooter that enjoys .22's. I run a bore snake with Hoppes on it through the bore before I leave the range when the rifle is still warm. I have never had a carbon ring, at least not one I am aware of, and I use a nylon and sometime a regular brush sparingly on the bore, run my wet and dry patches, then call it a day. My rifles/pistols seem to shoot fine. I used to clean until the patches came out pure white, but not anymore. That could take 30 patches or more! Not anymore. Frankly, I have noticed no difference in performance. I remember in the Marines(OCS) that the gas plug on the M14 would always leave a mark on your shirt if you rubbed it, like the inspecting E5 liked to do. You could clean that till the cows came home and it would still do it. I finally learned from my instructor, that the metal had been 'carbonized" after so many rounds and you could never get it to the point that it would not leave a mark. I think barrels often do the same thing. Just one man's opinion. YMMV

 

Ignore it?

 

Entirely doable.
But given
A. What I've got in the rifle, scope, bipod, etc. and,
B. What I'm paying for ammo and,
C. the amount of time I spend practicing,
... not tending to a small matter that helps wring every fraction of an inch of precision from every round seems unwise to me.
When the scoring, and possibly the win or loss, comes down to touching a line or not touching line as viewed through a wee magnified reader ... I'm willing to go a bit into the weeds.
And I'm off ... got a match this morning.

 

I want to learn things. After I learn, then I'll make up my mind what to ignore
and what to pay attention to. So I read this whole thread. Now I'm processing
it all. I bought a small bottle of C4, and paid like$19 for the bottle and $12 for
the shipping.

That seems nuts, but I guess I believed all this enough to buy into it in the
smallest way I could. I read the whole thread on cleaning the .22 ...which I thought
was well written and clear. I'll read that again.

Weird that I bought my one .22 rifle in March of 21, about the time I got my shots against Covid.
We could still buy ammunition at that time in Arizona, but some of the stores were beginning
to limit the amounts a guy could hoard per time in store. And the prices hadn't gone crazy yet.
I saw guys walk out after buying their limit, put that in their truck and walk back in for more.
Sportsmans Warehouse had pallets of ammo on the floor near the gun counter.

I watched that behavior, kind of amazed. *shrugs
I bought some too, but only what I considered a reasonable stockpile
for a shooter of careful groups. When the prices went sky high, I stopped buying.
That's the only way to respond IMHO. And I was glad I had a few hundred rounds I bought
before the gouging got so bad.

Now I read about the carbon ring, and I wonder if something's wrong with modern ammunition...
I bought my first .22 rifle in the 1970s... Did I blissfully shoot .22s and clean my rifle with Hoppes #9
like I was taught, dip a patch in Sheath sparingly like I was taught and run that through the barrel and chamber?
I could look through my .22 barrel with a bore light and see it shiny. Was all that just not good enough?
I wonder. I could hit the target back then. And I believe I'm shooting a little better now, with a better scope
and a better stock and a better rest than I ever had before. We'd lay our hat on a log and use that for a
rest, in a more innocent (not) time. (maybe we missed a few times, doing that... to be honest).

I'm older'n dirt now, but .22s are still fun.

 

I want to learn things. After I learn, then I'll make up my mind what to ignore
and what to pay attention to. So I read this whole thread. Now I'm processing
it all. I bought a small bottle of C4, and paid like$19 for the bottle and $12 for
the shipping.

But honestly you would have been so much better off and it would be more economical if you had of bought the big bottle instead of the small bottle.

You paid $19.99 for 4oz and for $34.99 you could have bought the 16oz bottle for less than twice the money and received 4 times the amount of C4 cleaner.
Shipping would have been a wash either way basically.

Buying the 4oz bottle make C4 cleaner a very spendy product to use.

 

I've noticed an increase discussions about carbon rings since the move to nylon brushes away from bronze. I'm nobody in rimfire and use Ballistol.