[Jdhasty]

I was attempting to point out that there are and have been actions that are fundamentally well designed. The 541/580 Remington is another one that comes immediately to mind. In the case of the latter, who knows if that would translate to them being produced by others who have either cut corners, or didn't have the capability to turn out a refined copy but delivered a copy that delivered basic performance that is well within what the originals proved to. In the case of the BRNO copies they pretty much deliver the down range goods, are not as nicely finished and the operation of the bolt, magazine and fire controls are commensurate with what one expects when finish lacks attention to detail.

 

[fourbore]

I agree on the action design. Maybe to the point of being annoying when I hear gripes about the safety. The 452 and back to Brno No1, are excellent designs. I also wish we could stop using any excuse we can find for these gun import bans.

 

[Jdhasty]

When I hear gripes about safeties, what immediately pops into my head is that the individual hasn't shot various rifles, pistols and shotguns much. I have taken multiple trips with a Model 52 Sporting rifle, a KoO, a BRNO, a 541S, a couple 10/22s, A Savage/Anschutz 164M and a 94/22 to Montana and as many CF varmint rifles to Montana to shoot prairie dogs and used all interchangeably throughout the day and week and don't remember a single instance of confusing how the safety operates. Perhaps even more to the point is that I can go back and forth with an Ithaca Model 37 and a Beretta A4 in a day of upland hunting, behind flushing dogs, depending if I am expecting covy birds or pheasant and have never confused the safety location or operation. If I'm varmint shooting and grab my pistol for a close in shot it matters not if I have a S&W Model 41 or an HD Military that day, the safety is where I expect it to be and operates like I expect it to operate.

 

[Onearm]

Onearm, that's a beauty! I wonder where the stock came from?

Just one of those mysteries. It looks a lot like a Don Stith stock but I cannot say for sure.

 

[j.r. guerra in s. texas]

I agree with the notion that some rifles gain a reputation for performance well above the expectation of cost. The Russian TOZ-78 used to be very inexpensive, as were the Romanian M69 military trainers. The last were well below a C-Note in cost.

 

[ajole]

I think Norinco gets a lot of hate, some deserved, some less so.

They are a HUGE "company" that makes a HUGE variety of things. Some will be basic consumer crap, some will be military grade, and there will be lemons and pears and other fruits produced over the course of the thousands of items churned out.

I have one of their 9 mm Tokarev copies, it's better made than the Romanian 7.62X25 Tok I own.

Got a couple of SKS's, some as good as the Russian or the Romanian I have, and some less "fine" in the fit and finish, but still reliable and accurate enough for their specified needs.

I recently got their Browning SA22 clone, the ADT or JW20...good bluing, shiny wood, fully reliable action and take down functions, it's as good or better built than many of the .22's being made and/or sold in the US today.

It's silly to compare the Norinco bolt action CZ clone to newer rifles that cost $400-$1000.

It's probably fair to compare them to the BRNO or older CZ models...but even then, we have to give some ground based on the fact that they were cheaper commodity items, not in the same niche as the BRNO or CZ of the day.

But the thing that interests me is, how do they shoot compared to other guns in their price range, based on market prices today?

When I see $200-$400 price tags....that makes me wonder what people think they are selling.

 

[gmd1950]

LGS's old manager tells of buying the Norinco's by the case, mounting a cheap no name 4x scope and selling them like hot cakes for $129 bucks... the two I had were servicable rifles but not the Brno killers some claim, that's just my experience, can't speak for others.

 

[Jdhasty]

We sold them, but not like hotcakes. I don't recall ever featuring them in an advertisement though. They were available and we sold one every few weeks. I remember that operation of the safety being very heavy was an issue from time to time. This is going back north of thirty years, but my recollection was that folks who bought them reported back that they liked them well enough. It seems to me that they were something that sold well at gun shows and our customers who bought one had learned of them from reading about them in magazines and/or had friends or sportsman's club member acquaintances who had one. My impression of the wood used in the stock comes from seeing them for sale used. Most of them seem to have gouges all over them, but they were intact and not split. I was shooting quite a bit of small bore silhouette at the time and I sure don't remember ever seeing anyone show up with one. I was shooting matches at Pee Ell, Tacoma Sportsmen's Club and Capitol City (mentioned above). A lot of folks came out and gave it a shot with everything from Savage & Marlin bolt actions to 10/22s and everything in between. I am absolutely certain that none of the regular competitors ever shot one in a match I attended.

 

[Onearm]

View attachment 464421


This is a full custom gun with a proven track record. I dont think Norinco gets much if any credit for that. If it shoots poorly now, I dont think Norinco deserves any blame.

I do find the opinions and experience with the stock Norinco interesting. No doubt a good value when imported probably over priced today for what they are. Based only my reading here. I have no regrets over missing this one. I did get a Norinco 1911 and it was a good pistol but I dont think those were any special big deal either. Another good value at the time. I would not try and buy one today. I regret not getting on the MAC90 and SKS bandwagon. I was too much a gun snob at the time.

I have no doubt this rifle will give excellent results, the first day at the range (if it ever stops raining). It cleaned up just fine, with no damage to the crown or anywhere else I looked. I will be remounting the Leupold VX-111 6.5-20X40mm EFR. that came with the rifle 14 years ago. While many scopes have come and gone over the years, I have kept that scope as the finest of its type I have ever mounted to a rifle.

By the way, what are any of you arguing about? I was just trying to offer an interesting story about an unusual rifle. I don't care if the action was produced in China or on Mars. I just found it interesting that it will take the magazines from my CZ 452s*. No, it is not an Anschutz or a Cooper but then it did not cost thousands of dollars either.

*Yes, I bought another 452 yesterday. It is a Trainer that saw it for sale here on RFC. Then, I realized the seller is local to me. I spoke with him by PM. Less than 24 hours later he drove up from Chehalis and we had a meeting at my FFL shop, Bullseye here in Tacoma. It could not have been a more painless deal. As he did not need to ship, the seller even dropped the price $50.

 

[fourbore]

I think we are actually saying the same thing, with emphasis. Ha ha ....

You did make an interesting post or no one would be saying anything. Good post. Interesting gun.

 

[Onearm]

I think we are actually saying the same thing, with emphasis. Ha ha ....

You did make an interesting post or no one would be saying anything. Good post. Interesting gun.

I know what a 4 Bore is. My advice: Do not ever hold one to your shoulder and squeeze the trigger. But then, I am the guy who sold his Ruger No 1 in 220 Swift because it was a powder hog that hurt my shoulder after a day at the range.

 

[Bent-1]

Fact on the Norinco 1911s have great steel. I purchases this on new when they first arrived for $200. out the door. Easily accepted a few upgrades and then a friend did his magic with laser. Love the 1911 and the addition it made for my collections. Whatta Hobby!


View attachment 464085

I remember those, heard a rumor they were made from scrap rail steel. Not sure how true that was.

 

[Jdhasty]

Anschrinko? or is it a Norschutz? Either way, I love it.

 

[Onearm]

I remember those, heard a rumor they were made from scrap rail steel. Not sure how true that was.

Rumors like that crop up all the time. Usually planted by the opposition. In my hometown, a group of doctors once formed a co-op and opened a hospital. They called it ,"Group Health." The main opposition hospitals spread the word it should be called, "Group Death." 50 years later, ignorant idiots still used that term, not knowing it was made up by the competition.
Ignore such rumors unless they are confirmed by neutral parties or personal experience. The Norenco action I have is not scrap steel, nor is it made of stamped steel like an AK 47. It has survived decades of use and thousands of rounds with no obvious wear. I am not saying this to sell you anything. There are a few firearms I will never sell. The Norinco with the Anschutz barrel and the bag rider stock is one of those keepers.

 

[NF1E]

I remember those, heard a rumor they were made from scrap rail steel. Not sure how true that was.

Lots of rumors started and whether true or false, this one has worked well for me. Even in it's original makeup it was fine. I did get a bit carried away with upgrades, but what the hey, it's all fun.

 

[Bigbore]

I remember those, heard a rumor they were made from scrap rail steel. Not sure how true that was.

Even if it were true, if properly recycled it shouldn't matter.

I heard CZs are made from steel that had dirt in it.

 

[fourbore]

I though the rail road track rumor was bragging on the high quality of the steel? But what do I know?

 

[Jdhasty]

There was a cat in Bonner MT when I was a kid who made knives from Studebaker leaf springs he picked up at the junk yard. They were very well respected knives and I think they are sought out as highly desirable these days.

 

[BRNO/CZluvr]

If any of ya'll are looking for a JW-15, there is one on Gunbroker. The last rifle in the BRNO section. Been for sale for a couple months. Starting price is 319 dollars.

 

[vfourmax]

I think Norinco gets a lot of hate, some deserved, some less so.

They are a HUGE "company" that makes a HUGE variety of things. Some will be basic consumer crap, some will be military grade, and there will be lemons and pears and other fruits produced over the course of the thousands of items churned out.

Got a couple of SKS's, some as good as the Russian or the Romanian I have, and some less "fine" in the fit and finish, but still reliable and accurate enough for their specified needs.

I had to laugh as I read this as a big box store ran the Norinco SKS, 7.62x39 new, chrome lined barrel w/bayonet, sling, cleaning kit and oil bottle for $89.95.
I saw the ad and said hell a new 30 caliber semi auto for under a $100 I ll bite and went and bought one.

After I finally got it cleaned of all the cosmoline and took it to the range I was shocked at how accurate it was and flawlessly it ran.
I never really shot it much past 100 yards but it shot very well and never hiccupped in its operation.
After shooting it I did some research into the SKS and although a simple design it is reliable and was used for decades in many 3rd world countries armies due to its low cost and dependable operation.

Teardown for cleaning requires nothing but a bullet tip!

I will say that rifle had a lot to do with me paying more attention to some firearms made by overseas companies or perhaps not as well known as the big boys.
I wish I had of bought 100 of them at that price!
I do still have that rifle today.