Moving a business is normal. Keeping its reputation and quality intact is not so easy. Time will tell.

 

NightHawk Custom has a reputation for building quality pistols, and the price reflects the quality. The company advertises that pistol is completely produced by one person. That is an expensive way to manufacture a complex product, so I wonder if that philosophy will be used on Cooper rifles. If so, I expect more price increases, and parts interchangeability becomes questionable.

 

I'm surprised this isn't provoking a bigger reaction from all of the Cooper fans . . .

 

Well as an owner of 2 Coopers rifles, I'm pretty piXXed at the way Cooper misled customers in their recent webpage statement they sent out about "closing down for the holidays because they were moving to a bigger building to be able to produce more rifles in a shorter time period, to get caught up. That was total b.s. They knew then they were either in the process of selling or had already sold out. So what about the loyal customers who plunked down $4K for their custom rifles and have been waiting for 2 years? What about warranty for rifles bought under the Cooper Rifles of Montana name? The old owners took the cowards way out of closing down Cooper Rifles IMO, instead of being square with loyal customers.
Nighthawk may make great pistols, but as far as I know they have zero experience in the custom rifles sector. At least no PROVEN experience. So yea, I'm pissed!

 

I have a couple premium 1911s from Brown and Wilson. Nighthawk does tend to be priced at the higher end of that group. They also tend to be more modern/innovative on the design side which I don’t personally care for in the 1911, but they do offer a couple traditional models. How this translates to Cooper who knows, besides being firearms the products are very different.

 

This is clearly a wait and see. Nighthawk has a very good reputation and I expect they want to keep it that way. But their philosophy and culture are unique (like all companies) and almost certainly different than Cooper's which will have to change somewhat. (As anyone who has gone through a merger or acquisition well knows.) What will be the impact on the product line? Lose some existing models? Get some new models? Probably both. Mostly center-fires or rimfires (both, we hope)? Parts availability is always a question and one I hope Nighthawk is tuned into. Like a I said, wait and see.

Doug

 

This is clearly a wait and see.

Doug

Yup, tis a waste of brain cells hypothesizing what will be.

 

If anyone was going to to take cooper over I think nighthawk has a good chance keeping the cooper quality up. And they have awesome customer service.

 

I've shot several Nighthawk 1911s and have one of their joint venture Korth Mongoose. 357s.

They are about as good as you want, the Korth is perfectly finished and is a very finely tuned machine. It is one of the very few firearms that I own that is unmodified, it is that good.

I have no experience with Cooper Firearms but I'd say they are going to be in good hands.

They will add a completely new line of guns and income stream to Nighthawk's portfolio and they probably don't have any plans to kill a golden goose.

 

What about the firing pin that would not go in and when asked . . . 'They all have to be custom fitted".

I have two Coopers and can not say their customer service impressed me.

 

Cooper wouldn't back the model 36 so it isn't the first time around the block for Cooper.
Kimber of New York wouldn't back the Kimber of Oregons.
Remington, Winchester, Marlin, Thompson Center. On and on it goes.

 

The backing of the model 36 when it was the product of the day, left a lot to be desired.
One of my better gun moves, to be rid of my pair.

 

As with Kimber's move from Oregon to NY, how many experienced employee's would make the move to Arkansas from Montana? hmmm....

I can only hope and pray for better wood, finishes that don't spot up in the rain, quality control and customer service.

Time will tell.

 

As with Kimber's move from Oregon to NY, how many experienced employee's would make the move to Arkansas from Montana? hmmm....

I can only hope and pray for better wood, finishes that don't spot up in the rain, quality control and customer service.

Time will tell.

Having Fajen Stockmaker in nearby Missouri should be a positive for talented craftsmen. Nighthawk and Wilson may have some of the best craftsmen in one geographical area. Plus, the winters are better.😜

 

I'd like to see Cooper of Arkansas tap into some resources/employees from before the days of Hugo's purchase. Following Hugo's purchase I feel like Cooper's culture was whitewashed. Perhaps they made a mistake when they decided to get into the high end repeater market. Cooper had carved a really neat niche for itself with it's single shot actions, diverse chamberings and offering the Model 38. Cooper under Hugo stepped away from what made a Cooper a Cooper. Cooper of Arkansas needs to pull from the brightest spots of Cooper's history and show how this move revitalizes the Cooper brand. Following conversations with the folks at Nighthawk it sounds like they mean business and want to build some fine rifles. I look forward to seeing what Cooper of Arkansas has in store....

 

Me too!

Doug

 

Meh, we're too old and its time to sell off some of the herd like Camster.

 

Al, I'm "up there" too (maybe further than you are), and have four beautiful and very accurate Cooper 57Ms. I doubt seriously that I'll buy any more, but I would find it difficult to part with the ones I have. In any case, I'd like to see Cooper come back strong with great quality rifles and thrive. We need such rifle manufacturers in the USA.

Doug

 

Well guys , I have an LVT 57m & Montana 57m which I've
been shooting for years and just love .

I'M on your side , what ever Cooper of W?T?H does I don't need to hold their
hand and sing camp songs.

... skwerl

 

As DBR said , this is a wait and see. Nighthawk may very well not build rimfires! If they do will the centerfires be built first and the rimfires a long time coming? I suspect this may be the case as I doubt if rimfires are part of the bulk of their business. It has always been a fact that people will pay bigger money for centerfires than rimfires, I don't know why, but it is there.

Fully machined parts, STUNNING WOOD , hand checkering, and beautiful finishes, these are some of the stated goals for the new Cooper rifles. For anyone hoping for a quality rifle at a lower price than the old Coopers these goals should doom that thought. Stunning wood itself will thrust the new Coopers upward from the old Cooper prices.

I predict a high quality product that the market won't be able to support! Surely the business folks at Nighthawk have a better sense of the market than I do, don't they ? This is what gives me hope that they will prosper and produce a very nice blued and stunning wood rimfire at some point.

 

Sales like these never end well. I can’t think of any that did. Not sure what Cooper was worth, but probably not much, less than a million? The buyer and probably investors want a return and that means higher margin and cheaper product. I see Cooper going the way of Kimber. Cooper msrp currently is way over the average gun enthusiasts budget. Most guys are in the CZ price range.

 

dlong, You are correct the vast majority of times once a transfer is done it doesn't work out for the better regardless of whether it is guns or cinder blocks. It is a matter of family.

When a person starts a company it is his baby he has an attachment beyond money. Once it is sold to another it is not the new owner's baby and reasons of attachment are different.

I am also in the CZ price range it is just that instead of buying three CZ's I save my money and buy one of something else, LOL.

 

I predict. The price of a Cooper rifle is going to go up. The one's you own now. And the ones Nighthawk plan on building. I also predict. Nighthawk is going to produce some very accurate and beautiful rifles. That not many of us can afford.

 

It will be interesting to see how all this pans out. Jack

 

Night hawk will have the stocks made by a sub. My bet would be the same outfit in Pennsylvania that makes the stocks for beretta. It’s cheaper to farm out than make in house. Most likely every component will be made this way and final assembly and testing will be in-house . Most manufacturers farm their products out, from apparel, pharmaceuticals, chips, boards, etc. Same way automobiles are made, every part is made by a sub to a required spec, then final assembly by the manufacturer. Nothing wrong with the process and the final product will be as good as specifications. No machinery to by and maintain. No salaries to operate the machines, no benefits for the employees. Wood is purchased in large quantities for better discounts, etc. I’ve seen the final wood product this company makes on the high end furniture side. It’s beautiful. But when the coffee table sells for $8000+, it better be nice.

 

I mentioned in an earlier post that I have four Cooper 57Ms. This, along with my Western Classic, is probably my favorite. It is cheating a bit, however, as it wears a Canyon Creek stock. Having said that, it should be noted that LeRoy and Connie Barry were the leading stock makers at Cooper in the early days, so there is a tie in. The rifle now wears a Leupold VX-2 6-18x40 AO scope.

Doug

 

 

So, will "pre-Nighthawk" Coopers now double or triple in value on Gunbroker?

 

The market will make that decision

 

And I have one that is an early Cooper that demonstrates what they used to do in the way of stock work (for all I know, LeRoy and Connie may have done this one way back when). This one also now wears a Leupold VX-2 6-18x40 AO scope.

Doug

 

Doug--That is a beauty , That rifle deserves a gloss Leupold on it. You would draw a flag on the Kimber forum for that. LOL

 

I hope I'm wrong , but I have a feeling that the Model 57-M will be the first to be dropped from the line , because : "All anyone needs for a .22 is a 10/22 tactical rifle ; with the cheapest scope possible !! Ain't she purrty ?! Yee-Haw !" [I was told exactly this when looking for a good scope for one of my rifles !!??]

 

Not sure if I agree with that. A really nice 22 will always be a classic. Just a matter of how much the market will pay.