I wouldn't be too hard on yourself. Anyone that got a 499 last Tuesday is an excellent shooter!

Myself and bench 1 guy both noted that we had a slight, direct headwind (vey unusual being directly, head on) that was pushing our rounds upward instead of downward. I got a 499 and it was one of the hardest 499s I've earned and I was tickled to get it. LOL

There just ain't no room for error with these guys.

Here's an example from a few weeks ago. I had the match won, but goofed-up my final shot as the clock ran out. I call it a brain freeze. I ran out of brain power or something.

Check out bull #25. It's a tear jerker.

 

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself. Anyone that got a 499 last Tuesday is an excellent shooter!

Myself and bench 1 guy both noted that we had a slight, direct headwind (vey unusual being directly, head on) that was pushing our rounds upward instead of downward. I got a 499 and it was one of the hardest 499s I've earned and I was tickled to get it. LOL

Fellows, AlapahaJack stands alone at the top of the 500 list with SIX scores of 500. He has more scores of 499 than that. He is REALLY good and very hard to beat.

 

I haven't had a lot to say about our Retired Old People (ROP) matches since the first of the year, mainly because I haven't shot worth a darn. In 17 matches I've had 4 second place finishes and my high score has been 499-16X. I've got excuses - lots of them - and I'm sticking to them. First there has been the wind; unusually high winds that have been tough to figure and it has been a problem almost every match this year. Then I ran out of my supply of SK Pistol Match Special at the end of 2022 that was shooting so well. I tried a couple of other kinds that didn't perform and then found some more SK PMS. It wasn't a good lot and had too many fliers.

In the same time period other shooters have shot nine scores of 500 with two being on the same day. It sucks to shoot a 500 and come in second I suppose. I wouldn't know. My final excuse is that the others guys have just gotten too good and dropping even a single point can cost the match.

But, things are looking up a bit. I bought another supply of SK Pistol Match Special and it is proving to be a better lot. Two days ago I shot a 499-16X, my best score in 2023 for this match with cheap ammo. My X count was terrible and three others also shot a 499 so I ended up in 4th place. Even so, I'm encouraged. We'll see.

What rifle? thanks from another ROP

 

AlapahaJack has a custom Anschutz that's very accurate. From memory, our shooters have Anschutz, Suhl, Remington 40X, Winchester 52B, CZ-457 MTR and Kimber 82 rifles.

This year I have used four different rifles in 17 matches: H&R 12, Anschutz Match 54, Bergara B14 and a Suhl 150. In the past I have shot scores of 500 with the last three listed. I have also shot multiple scores of 499 with an Ural-2 but have been denied a 500 with it by the thinnest of margins. The game can be frustrating.

 

I shoot a Win 52C with the trigger job from Dokey (sweet) Our range is in a canyon and there is always a tricky wind. I am 84, but I still get a possible now and then. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day !!!

 

Sounds similar to our range where the four wind flags can be showing wind in four different directions within the 50 yards to the targets. That 52C sounds like a fine shooter.

 

Doub was talking about how bad the wind has been this year.

Here's the wind history from our match on February 2nd. Look at the gusts as we shoot at 12 noon.
I was very lucky and finished with a 499 26X for 2nd and the 1st place guy got a 500 28X.

 

You ROP obviously have a good thing going there.

Out of interest how big of holds do you have to make in such conditions. Wind has suddenly become cantankerous on my range and I'm finding my self holding 3/4 to 7/8 of an inch. Then it either gusts or lets off and I still miss by 3/4 of an inch. IE. I impact where I aimed in the 8 ring or the POI is 1.5 inches from my POA and still in the 8 ring, just down wind.

 

You ROP obviously have a good thing going there. Out of interest how big of holds do you have to make in such conditions. Wind has suddenly become cantankerous on my range and I'm finding my self holding 3/4 to 7/8 of an inch. Then it either gusts or lets off and I still miss by 3/4 of an inch. IE. I impact where I aimed in the 8 ring or the POI is 1.5 inches from my POA and still in the 8 ring, just down wind.

In addition to propellers, our wind flags have ribbon tails and both must be observed to estimate hold off. I don't think it's possible to give a definitive answer to your question as each range is different and it's a matter of learning through experience. I have also experienced what you have and sometimes it just doesn't make any sense at all. I wish I could be of more help.

 

Thanks AlpacaJack, it is interesting to hear that you dial in so much windage rather than holding. I may experiment with that ... the danger being I forget what I have dialed.

I have got to where I am very comfortable with 3/8 inch holds, especially with 8 to 10 and 2 to 4 o'clock winds. I get better results in these conditions than when the wind is lighter but more variable. In fact, I do better in light winds than I do no wind.

I have also learned that a prevailing moderate condition can be shot successfully despite it not being indicated on all flags.

 

Thanks AlpacaJack, it is interesting to hear that you dial in so much windage rather than holding......

Hey! Full disclosure...I don't recommend and never adjust the scope, ever. Assuming of course it's zeroed properly.

I just do a holdover because the wind will change and you may have to constantly/quickly adjust that holdover.

BUT, in an unusually weird circumstance like what I noted above, we had a roaring and pretty constant ~15 mph wind from the same direction, for the whole match. I took a real gamble and adjusted the scope rather than do a half-inch holdover for the entire match. It's very rare (for us) to have that strong of a wind last that long. I just lucked out with the gamble.

If that wind had slowed, then sped-up, then slowed, after fiddling with the scope, I would have been screwed and confused beyond all measure trying to overcompensate my overcompensating. LOL

 

The way to maximize results is to have one condition and one hold and do that 25 times in a row. It takes focus and patience. Most of the time you just have to do the best you can with what the conditions are but the one condition/one hold should be your goal.

 

It's an admirable goal but if you're looking for one condition and one hold at the Fort Valley Gun Club and expect to complete a 25 bull card within the time limit then all I can say is "Good luck". The wind currents on our range are very fickle and change in a heartbeat so reading the wind flags is crucial.

Our rules are simple: any rifle, any scope but you are limited to a bi-pod, sand bags or front rest and rear bags. No one-piece rests allowed. We remove as much of the purely mechanical element as we can and require as much human input as possible. For our cheap ammo match the cost per 50 round box cannot exceed $10. Our normal match allows any cartridge. Benches are not reserved; first come, first served.

 

Not wanting to hi-jack doubs conversation but my bud asked me exactly how accurate we are shooting only cheap (<$10 ) ammo, insinuating it's a waste of time.

Well, to answer that......Bro Dave and I arrive early for each match and we have a little 5 shot, tightest group, contest. Bro Dave loves shooting groups. I don't.

I took some pics of my groups for my bud in FLA asking the question. Also, Bro Dave always beats me! LOL

 

Not wanting to hi-jack doubs conversation but my bud asked me exactly how accurate we are shooting only cheap (<$10 ) ammo, insinuating it's a waste of time.

Well, to answer that......Bro Dave and I arrive early for each match and we have a little 5 shot, tightest group, contest. Bro Dave loves shooting groups. I don't.

I took some pics of my groups for my bud in FLA asking the question. Also, Bro Dave always beats me! LOL

I have high end ammo that shoots better but we've always had very good results with several different lines of SK ammo.

 

Fully realize that different rifles like different ammo, so my question is fairly moot. But what brands are you using and does one brand seem to rise to the top? I am paying $4 for CCI SV and $9.99 for Tac 2. CCI SV has come down in our area. I've never seen SK in a local store, and there are a dozen varieties of SK on line.

 

For our cheap ammo match, the predominant brank is SK. Most use SK Pistol Match Special while AlapahaJack and at least one other favor SK Rifle Match. Purchased on line we find it at the $10 or less per box price. Sometime back when we also shot at 100 yards, the favorite was Geco Semi-Auto which was only $4 per box. It was really good at 100 yards.

 

SK Biathlon in the blue box shoots about as good as the Pistol Match Special. I tried one brick at $90 a brick, then went back and bought 5 more. This was shot at 50 yards for wind practice. 1 - 25 are SK PMS, and below that are the Biathlon. The circles are .5 ID. Shot off a rest with a standard CZ 457 Varmint

 

I don't call 10.00 per 50 cheap ammo. As for SK ammo, I think it's the lube that makes it good. I've fired good groups with CCI Std after shooting SK Plus, but only 1 or 2 groups with the CCI, then I start getting fliers or larger groups. I wish I had a bucket of the SK lube..................

 

When we began our cheap ammo matches, I capped the cost at $7.50 per box of 50. When Covid created supply issues and prices climbed, I raised it to $10. That may not seem cheap but compared to Center-X, Ten-X and others, it's far from expensive. As all rifles are a law unto themselves and will show a preference for a specific cartridge, I wanted a top price that gave everyone the best chance of finding a cartridge that their rifle would shoot well. Additionally I wanted a price that allowed far better choices than Golden Bullets and other cartridges that guarantee a lot of fliers. Even at $10 some of the cartridges don't do well in our matches.

 

So the CCI SV lube seems to fowl and the groups open up. What happens if you pull a bore snake through it? Or does it need a deep cleaning? Do the CCI SV improve with weight sorting? Right now our local Runnings has it for $3.99. I agree, $10 a box isn't cheap. And, $25 is beyond acceptable.

 

Here is a good example of how SK Standard Plus shoots for us.

Shot these groups today in a 3 to 10 MPH wind. Only one called shot and the rest are what they are.

All groups are 5 shots.

 

I don’t see it in stock anywhere.

 

Bowchamp, that's good shooting with SK Standard Plus. Clearly your rifle likes it.

I shot my Suhl Standard 150 rifle in our normal benchrest match today. I used Lapua Center-X. My score was 248-12X. I dropped 2 points in one shot; a flier. It was dead calm when I fired and the shot dropped low at 7 o'clock. When I shot my sighters I also had an identical flier. Nine sighter shots tore the ten ring up and then one unexplained flier. (It was the 5th shot on my first sighter bull) The two fliers would have been through the same hole if overlaid. Fliers can happen with any cartridge at any cost.

 

Ammo everywhere is so hard to get its inevitable that the variety of ammo people shoot has opened up as our favorite becomes scares and trying to select between batches is a dream.

Here in Australia its never been an option to try big numbers lots and very difficult currently to buy anything top end and even lower cost match grade ammo is a battle so finding a lot of something special is unlikely.

I have a bit of SK Pistol Match and a good bit of SK Long Range which is exceptional but not much top grade stuff.

Shot this recently with the SK long range. Scored 250.21 as we only need to touch the middle dot for an X.

There can be some outstanding ammunition at the lower costs but you need to be very fortunate.

 

Vic Fox:
Well done, please tell us the make of rifle for this guality shooting.
Fritz

 

Vicfox that's an impressive card.

 

Vicfox, if that was shot at 50 yards, that's an outstanding target. What rifle did you use?

 

Thanks Guys.
The rifle is a Stiller action with a Lilja barrel. I run a tuner and a locally made bamboo stock.

 

Stopped in to let you Old People know I had a go with some SK Semi-Auto Rifle ammo and it shot pretty darn well.

The row of sighters down the left side are as follows, Top sighter was my first ten fouler and scope adjustment shots. The other three are 5 shots groups. Thought y'all might want to give it a try.

 

I have a really good lot of Semi-Auto myself.

 

BowChamp and Appalachian2, both of you shot great. SK is making some very good ammo.

 

At the end of the day, it's always fun to have trigger therapy

 

Brian, it sounds like you have two capable rifles. Work with the MTR and find what it likes. It may surprise you just how good it can be.

 

Hey doubs43. I do have 2 very good rifles and I find the more I shoot the MTR the better it gets. Today I ordered a Bushnell Match Pro Illuminated reticle 6-24X50 scope at a really good price. So now I have the capability to shoot my MTR at the A23 target and the ARA unlimited target at our local club matches. Another shooter in this group, PWNolan said the MTR should be shot to really see how well it shoots and that what I'm going to do.
Thanks for your comments!!
Brian

 

Can someone measure the outer edge of the 10 ring on the IBS 50 yd target? I've read it's a 1/2" but would like confirmation

 

1/2"

 

@AlapahaJack thanks for confirming. If I score my ARA UL targets as best edge it gives me a pretty good idea how I'd do on the IBS target

 

The IBS 10 ring is precisely .500".

A target I've used in the past to practice is the USBR target that I happened to have a pile of at one time. The 10 ring on it is a couple thousands over 1/2 inch which leads me to believe that it is based on MOA which is 1.05" at 100 yards.