http://www.kansascity.com/2011/01/03/2558645/officials-relieved-ray-county.html

Missouri ranchers have been losing cattle to a few big cats, Sounds like one of them got with in range of his rimfire. Wonder what ammo he was using? This is 15 minutes north of Remington's Lexington stock factory btw.

This is following a discussion here on whether .22 is heavy enough for home defense. The cat was 115lbs, one shot from a guys coon hunting rifle.

With all due respect, cat hunting is different than home defense. .22 magnums are one of the preferred weapons for mountain lion hunting when using dogs. The reason why, is that if too much gun is used, the treed cat will be knocked out of the tree alive and have plenty of time to disembowel a dog or two. Not good. The 22 leaves them in the tree long enough for them to drop dead in the tree and fall harmlessly from the tree. There is plenty of power to kill with a well placed shot of a .22. It just takes a little while.

In home defense, you do not want the perp to live that long.
gkn

 

With all due respect, cat hunting is different than home defense.

In home defense, you do not want the perp to live that long.
gkn

Saying things like that (even on the 'net) could come back to bite you big time in court if you ever had to use a firearm in self defense.

You shoot to stop the threat ... not to kill.
If the threat just happens to die because of your well placed rounds ... so be it.

That is a pretty big cat. We have had confirmed sightings of at least 2 mountain lions by our local state wildlife biologist that I play music with.
I'd hate to be surprised by one of those buggers while out predator calling ...
:bthumb:Straight Shootin'

 

If a .22 is all you have for home defense, so be it. It's better then nothing. I'll stick with my 12 gauge pump and double barrel 12 gauge coach gun.

I had to laugh a bit about "a few cats in Nebraska." They're all over the place out here where I live. There's also plenty in South Dakota. Otherwise SD wouldn't have a season on them.

 

Cool story and thanks for sharing it.
Too bad they shot it as I would have liked to have trapped it and transported it back here. The last two years I have seen a female roaming semi southern Kansas looking for a mate.

 

For many decades the Missouri Department of Conservation insisted that there were no mountain lions in the state. Then one was struck and killed by a car on I-29, just north of Kansas City. Now they are taking the threat seriously, and have started investigating reported sightings.

There was a confirmed sighting in Platte County recently.

I, for one, certainly hope that a breeding population does not happen in my state.

Hector

 

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/01/03/2558645/officials-relieved-ray-county.html

Missouri ranchers have been losing cattle to a few big cats, Sounds like one of them got with in range of his rimfire. Wonder what ammo he was using? This is 15 minutes north of Remington's Lexington stock factory btw.

This is following a discussion here on whether .22 is heavy enough for home defense. The cat was 115lbs, one shot from a guys coon hunting rifle.

Similarly, I have read (but not verified) that subsonic .22's are often used by assassins. With a silencer they would be very very quiet. But we're talking excellent marksmen with time to make a well aimed shot to a vital area. Just because something CAN be done in one circumstance (or anecdote) doesn't mean that it's the BEST CHOICE under more all circumstances.

 

I guess the big news is for local Missourians is that there really are big cats here! People have claimed to have seen them for years and it's just recently that they are confirmed.


This big cat wasn't afraid to take down something 5 times bigger than him for dinner either.

 

The DNR still says there are no mountain lions in Ohio. Too bad I saw tracks from one a few years ago. They are in this part of the country. I've heard them at least twice before but that was across the river in Ky.

BTW anyone who counts on a .22 for HD is taking a pop gun to a big bore battle. Yes you can kill a man with one shot if you hit him in the right spot. But not many people are going to sit still long enough for you to shoot them in the right spot. You'll most likely be shooting at a moving target that is attempting to disarm you and they could likely be armed with a much bigger caliber.

It's just pure stupid to count on a .22 for HD. Sorry to be so blunt but watching this video should be enough evidence for anyone that using a .22 to stop someone is a very bad idea. The bad guy in the video emptied TWO .22 LR handguns into his lawyer. Maybe it's just that lawyers are another species but most likely it's because a .22 is not going to hurt someone bad enough to stop them if they think they're going to jail for the rest of their life if they don't get away. If you catch some man trying to rape your wife or daughter he's going to try to kill you and your family so he won't be sent to jail for a very long time. If he has a .45 ACP and you have a .22 LR you're in a heap of trouble most likely. I'd put your odds at about 100-1 against. One shot with a .45 to any part of the body will slow down an attacker tremendously. Often a hyped up (even just on adrenaline) bad guy won't even feel that .22 LR round. You will have to hit a moving target in a spot no bigger than a baseball while he attempts to keep from being shot at all. It's not that easy to shoot someone even at point blank range. Watch the video.

 

Here Kitty Kitty!

I work with Mt. lions from time to time here in Kommiforya and must say without a dought MOST HUNTERS have been seen by a lion!!!
They are so solitary and recusive that seeing one is a rare site in most of the country.

A couple of things you might not know about our big cat.
1. Most will fight to the death if they meet out of "season"
2. It is not uncommon for them to go into cities at night.
3. They hunt for fun / practice like a house cat, but don't play with there prey, just kill.
4. They will run from humans 99.99% of the time. You'll not-even know they were there.
5.Cougers love to kill coyotes (One of the first signs lions are growing in poulation is the coyotes will start to move into towns.
6. No state can say howmany they have because they are almost never seen/ 7 in ten lions will be killed buy a lion / there population can very by 200%+/- every 6years.
7.Most reports of Mt. lions in California are Bobcats.
8.The state of California has them listed as "An animal of special concern!" That means we can't hunt them cause their cute.
9. Mt. lions can and will live anywhere Deer are found.
10. They taste like chicken!
You guys in hunting friendly states are blessed to have a season on them!

.......................20-250ai

 

I know back 20-40 years ago it was very common to hunt mountain lions in the South West with dogs and when they were "treed" the hunter just shot them in the ear with a 22 from very close range.

I can not see how this or any other shot at mountain lion with a rimfire qualifies that rimfire for self defense. Few bad guys will let you sneak up on them and then offer their ear so you can shoot into it!!

 

Now I know where the Mob and the Mossad got the idea!

Back to the OP -- that's a nice sized cat. I think I'd rather have a centerfire with me if I faced one, but like it's been said, you use the gun you brought with you, and a well placed rimfire shot can do a lot of damage. :t

 

I saw one in Alabama once. I was going down an old logging road when a brown flash with a long tail darted in front of me. A wildlife biologist confirmed the tracks.
I've also seen "honey" bears around here. They a a small sub-species of black bears.
Cougars and bears are not what you expect to see in Alabama; the land of bobcats and raccoons.

 

The Bears might surprise you, they turn up in the darnest places here in NC and northern Alabama wouldn't surprise me in the least, having ridden dirt bikes all over that area.

 

They are the famous non-existant cat you hear about here in southeast GA. Cougers don't live in this area according to some fish and game folks, but I have seen quite a few very large, long tailed "wildcats", once a whole pride while out in a canoe with my wife and daughter. Another chased my wife and daughter off an island we had set up to shoot ducks on by growling and walking near them through maiden cane. A friend had a large cow killed with some terrific wounds, but the experts said dogs must have done the deed, as we "have no cougars" in these parts.

The fellow who said they see you but you don't see them is correct. They are good at not being seen, but the last one we saw walked across the road in front of our truck in broad daylight like he owned the place. Sure gave our grandaughter a thrill.

Face to face, I sure would hate to only have a .22 available even if some do seem to think it is a magical caliber.

 

Are cats in MISSOURI, YES they are, but if you say you actual seen one they treat you like your reporting a UFO. I seen one bow hunting in central missouri many years ago and did mention it to our agent here and he basically laughed at me....maybe I should stick to watching for UFO's thats probably more likely to be spotted in MISSOURI

 

Several years back I would have sworn I spotted one off HWY 54 between Jefferson City and Kingdom City, but at 60 mph I could not convince myself that is what I saw.

Mals

 

I'm supposed to draw the conclusion that a .22 will stop a 115lb perp?
OK, I'll buy that, but.... :comeandge
As long as he's up a tree and I've got a clean shot.

 

If I only had a 22 I would only shoot if I had too. There's a few Big Cats here in southern SC. One morning one crossed in front of my Truck, and my Girlfriend has seen several over the years.

 

Never shoot a cougar with a .22 unless your life is depending on it without a doubt or you have a pack of hounds trained to deal with cougars. They can and will rip most dogs to shreds. Some dogs work together well enough to make a cat figure it's best to run but rarely will a pack of dogs be able to kill a cougar. My brother swears his dogs treed a cougar once. I wasn't there so I can't say for sure. I did see his two blueticks that were well trained coon hounds and they were ate up. He said he had to kick the cat off the dogs or it would have killed them both. My guess that in the dark a bobcat might look a lot like a cougar. But I do know there are cougars in the area even though I have never seen one. I have seen tracks and I have heard them squall and nothing else can make that sound they make that I know about.

Speaking of their range I found this map on Wikipedia showing how far they roam. What a joke. When you see a cat track (very easy to recognize) that is MUCH bigger than a bear track it wasn't a bobcat that made it.

 

Love it when we depend on the "experts" to tell us certain wildlife does not live in these parts when we see them with our own eyes.

The wife and I returned to the boat ramp with one hen wood duck once and were met by a federal warden. He asked if we did any good, we said we got one hen woody and handed him the duck. He turned it over and over in his hands, and after a long pause announced that this is a hen wood duck. Duh.

 

comfort in knowing that your as smart as a federal warden just gives you goose bumps I bet (duck bumps maybe?)

 

A couple of the federal guys we met over the years were very sharp, and we considered two in particular as friends. We would pull up to them and have conversations whenever we met them on the water. They were helpful in helping us locate where the ducks were working and just good guys to talk to. Where they got this one was a mystery.

 

The fed people I meet in the woods are usually pretty good eggs. It's the smart guys back in the office that never get out of the office that crack me up. I've been told that lots of things I've seen don't exist by federal types etc.. For example blue racer snakes aren't supposed to exist in my part of Ohio but I saw one in my yard a few years ago. And baby copperheads aren't supposed to crawl inside their mother for transportation and protection but I've seen that happen too. And I've seen snakes that aren't supposed to exist within 400 miles of where I live if they exist at all. I saw a bright blue snake with strips along the snake in my yard when I was a kid and that thing was fast as lightning. But no such snake is even supposed to exist. There is a snake that is close to what it looks like but it's a different color and it lives on the other end of Kentucky from where I live. That's a LONG way away. It looks like a western ribbon snake but the colors were completely wrong. It had a blue streak that was a deep blue and very shiny. I've never seen another snake anything like it again. I think there's lots of stuff around that we just never see. My neighbor trapped a bobcat on the hill behind our houses not too long ago and I saw a bobcat at the gun range last summer. They're out there. I've seen a LOT of bears in the past 2 years too.

It's amazing what those experts don't know about.

 

we have the cougars up here on mt hood in oregon,,my wife and i just went for a drive on some old logging roads and had a cougar wander out in front of my truck,,my wife could not believe it,like someone else said you normally wont see them,but they are around

 

22 or centerfire isn't going to do him any good for what the law is going to do to him for shooting it. I hope they hang him up to dry.

 

If you are talking about the person in the story you better go back and read the story. The state game people were happy the cat was shot and they were even more happy that it was a male because that meant there was not a breeding cat in the area. They do not want them from the sound of it. Also this animal was taking calves and if that is so you are good with shooting one almost anywhere do to predation.

Does not sound to me like they were unhappy with him in the slightest.

 

Well no one here uses a .22 on a couger. Yes it will kill them but not before it kills a few of your dogs. Even with a head shot they don't die quick. Home defense, well it should be your last ditch weapon just before the butcher knife. I have one of those little NAA 5 shot revolvers in .22 magnum....last ditch.

 

There isn't a season for mountain lions in Missouri but a person can shoot them if they are killing livestock or are endangering people. If a mountain lion is shot legally, it must be reported right away to the conservation department. The cat was killing cattle then the man didn't break any laws and I don't blame him for doing it.

 

Well my brother had his "coon hunting rifle" (still don't know exactly what that means but he hunted coons with it so it must have been a coon hunting rifle - every coon hunter I ever knew used a .22 for various reasons like not messing up a good hide) but he never tried to shoot the cougar he claims he saw. He probably didn't want to shoot his own dogs in the process considering he was offered $10k for one of those dogs. I wouldn't shoot any animal just because I could unless it was a genuine threat to man or livestock. But some people shoot for trophies and I really don't have a problem with that as long as they are killing off the last one or something.

Still I might consider shooting a cougar in the ear if I had no other choice (not likely) and it was killing a pet or hunting dogs or causing problems with livestock or whatever. But I would have to have an extremely good shot at it and a really accurate and dependable gun and ammo. And I would still wonder about having a wounded animal to deal with instead of a dead one. A wounded animal is a very dangerous thing just like a cornered animal is. That's why my brother's coon hounds were in such trouble. Cats hate being cornered. Even a house cat will eat you up if you corner it and make it mad enough. Trust me I've seen that hapen.

It might be "possible" to kill a cougar with a .22 but that sure as heck doesn't mean it's a good idea. Having a pack of hounds to protect you or just give you enough time for additional shots would make a big difference.

But using a .22 for self defense is suicidal if you're planning on using one when you could buy a bigger gun instead. Let's talk about the Virginia Tech. shooter. He had a 9mm and a .22 both semi-auto handguns. He shot 3 people through doors as they attempted to build a barricade to keep him out. Two were professors who were giving their students time to get out the windows to safety. I'd bet a dollar to a dime that he didn't use a .22 to shoot through a door and kill someone. Depending on what kind of door it was he might not even have been able to kill someone by shooting a .22 through a door. But you can sure as heck do it with a 9mm, which was adopted for use by US LEO's because of it's penetration power back when criminals were first using cars to get away from bank robberies etc.. The switch was made to the .357 quickly after that because people didn't want foreign made guns at the time.

IMO shooting through a door that someone is attempting to get through to get at you and your family is a real good reason to have a gun big enough to do it effectively. I have a steel door for my backdoor to my house. A large caliber handgun could shoot right through it and still be effecitve. Trying to shoot someone on the other side of that door with a .22 is going to be almost impossible. The same goes for walls, appliances, cabinets, etc.. One of my primary defense points in my defensive plan calls for using household appliances as a safe zone because there is a spot I can take cover there and have multiple appliances (refrigerator, freezer, water heater, washer with a dryer on top of it) protecting me. I will have a perfect shooting zone from where I will be with concrete blocks and dirt behind me and behind the bad guys if they try to come at us. Still I want the possiblity of shooting through my bathroom wall (opposite the utility room where I will be) where I will have to shoot through kitchen cabinets and the shower behind the wall behind the cabinets. A .22 will never penetrate that. But a .45 will. So will a .44 magnum, a 12 ga., a 7.62 X 39, a ,223 and a .30-06. Someone with a .22 will have almost no chance at all of pentrating my defenses but I will be able to fire a large caliber weapon into a block wall with 12 feet of dirt behind it and that's after penetrating the cabinets and the shower. Trust me a 7.62 X 39 will shred that wall and I'll be well protected myself. So anyone who brings a .22 to my house better hope they get me before I get to the defensive location.

That's the kind of thing that makes a .22 a hugely inferior weapon for SD.