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Match chamber thoughts

1.6K views 14 replies 12 participants last post by  phall0548  
#1 ·
CZ claims to offer a match chamber in a couple of their rifles, the MTR as one. Their web site describes the chamber as “Its Match chamber is cut to the tightest specification that CIP will allow, meaning it will perform impressively well with top-tier ammo”
Now I’ve seen SAAMI reference to a match chamber on its site and realize there are numerous chambers out there drawn up by someone with their own idea of what one should look like, but I have never seen reference to a CIP backed “match” chamber. CIP seems to only offer 1 chamber within a normal min/max tolerance.
I am understanding CZ is simply calling a min-spec CIP chamber a match chamber, correct?
If so depending on reamer wear and condition every rifle style CZ builds has a chance of having a “Match” chamber, it’s the luck of the draw what you get if you buy other then a MTR. All are CIP spec chambers, some are just at the bottom of spec for those lucky few or the ones that pick a specific model rifle?
 
#2 · (Edited)
CZ barrels are good in general, MAYBE the MTR match barrels are slightly better.
Out of a lot of CZ varmint style barrels I have two that shoot better than my two MTR barrels.
Both are CZ VPC guns in HBI factory chassis.

Summary : it's a Barrel Lottery.

Buy a Llija barrel for 500-600 bucks if you want known consistency! FWIW or OMO

shot this morning in 8-10 mph wind left to right with one of my VPC's 16.5" varmint bbl , no Match chamber, first 5 shots of the day 100yds
Group above right, not fully in photo: shot just after is a 10 shot group at 1.109
Image
 
#3 ·
CZ claims to offer a match chamber in a couple of their rifles, the MTR as one. Their web site describes the chamber as “Its Match chamber is cut to the tightest specification that CIP will allow, meaning it will perform impressively well with top-tier ammo”
Now I’ve seen SAAMI reference to a match chamber on its site and realize there are numerous chambers out there drawn up by someone with their own idea of what one should look like, but I have never seen reference to a CIP backed “match” chamber. CIP seems to only offer 1 chamber within a normal min/max tolerance.
I am understanding CZ is simply calling a min-spec CIP chamber a match chamber, correct?
If so depending on reamer wear and condition every rifle style CZ builds has a chance of having a “Match” chamber, it’s the luck of the draw what you get if you buy other then a MTR. All are CIP spec chambers, some are just at the bottom of spec for those lucky few or the ones that pick a specific model rifle?
Joe,

It's not a "claim" it's a fact! all the CZ's with MTR in the name and roll marked on the barrel have the tighter "match" chamber.

I'm not sure what you're asking about "reamer wear and condition" I would think that QC/QA would check the reaming tools with precision gauges every time before and after cutting chambers.

I have 1 MTR and 4 other CZ's that said I have seen some MTR's shoot absolutely lights out, some shoot mediocre and some shoot like poo! :poop: same with Bergara B14r and Tikka. It's the luck of the draw.
 
#4 ·
Actually, I think the OP may be on to something here. The first barrels cut with the reamers are more likely to have a tighter chamber than the last cut barrels. And maybe if the Barrels are cut on seperate stations, based on their length and or circumference, those types with fewer numbers have tighter chambers. This might account for why the 452 Americans and the 452 Varmints or the 455 24 inch heavy tapers or the 452 ultra luxes , stand out as some of the more accurate versions. PS. I have a 20 inch 457 Match barrel on a 455 action, and it shoots fantastic. But its a little too lite and short for me use in a big heavy bench rest stock, so its in an Evo Stock, which surprisingly seems to work well on the bench now that I have a big bunny eared rear bag.
 
#5 ·
I always heard the opposite. 🤷‍♂️
I figured the first barrels reamed would be top of the reamer spec and as the reamer was aged out and resharpend over its useful lifetime, the chamber dimensions would get smaller.

I guess it would depend on where the reamer spec started. And maybe the process of sharpening reamers at a factory production level has become obsolete in this age of part replacers.

Not a gunsmith, just read a lot through the years. So I may have been misinformed.
 
#11 ·
Negative. As a reamer wears, the hole gets bigger. A dull reamer tears away more material, making the hole oversized. A sharp reamer cuts a tiny amount of material and cuts to the correct diameter.

Any shop cutting a match chamber is using a carbide reamer and it's gonna cut a boatload of holes before it needs sharpening. A reamer is only going to remove maybe .005-.0075" of material per side, it's gonna be flooded with cutting fluid and probably every chamber is gonna have a go/nogo plug gage stuck in it to ensure it's good to go.
 
#7 ·
All CZ .22LR firearms are made to meet CIP specs. CIP chamber specs indicate the smallest or minimum dimensions of a chamber, including its diameter and length. Some chambers will have dimensions that are a little greater than these minimums.

CZ doesn't publish information about what differences in dimensions there are between the "CZ match chamber" found on models such as the MTR and the "regular" chamber on other bolt action CZ rifles. It's possible, indeed likely, that the semi-auto CZ 512 has a chamber with more generous dimensions than the bolt action models.

Below is the CZ chamber specs. For simplification CZ has produced a chart comparing CIP and SAAMI chamber and bore dimensions, shown at bottom.



 
#9 ·
CZ doesn't publish information about what differences in dimensions there are between the "CZ match chamber" found on models such as the MTR and the "regular" chamber on other bolt action CZ rifles.

Actually CZ does give a general description of its match chamber on its web site.
“Its Match chamber is cut to the tightest specification that CIP will allow”
Now whether or not this is a different chamber then a standard CIP chamber cut to min spec or not is my question, not how well MTRs shoot or what rifles in their line have their “match chamber”.

If it is just a min-spec chamber they are calling match then do you have a chance of having a similar chamber in their other rifles as reamers wear and are sharpened over the tools life? - Yes, reamers cut a smaller hole as they dull and are resharpened removing metal from the cutting edges.

The way they have it written it sounds to me it is not a specialized chamber, just one at min tolerance since there is no CIP backed match chamber I’m aware of, like the SAAMI match variant they (SAAMI” has a standard for, or the various non backed “match” chambers used by smiths in their builds.

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#8 ·
I have two MTR's. And CZ does not use the same reamer for MTR's and Varmint (have two of them also) Fired cases in my MTR can be inserted in any of my rifles. Fired cases in my Varmints stick when I try to insert them in my MTR's, can only be inserted half way. Cases fired in my Anshutz will also insert in my MTR's. Cases fired in my Varmints stick in the Anschutz. Anschutz and MTR's diffidently have tighter chambers. My MTR's out shoot my Varmints, well they did until I put a Lija barrel on one. But still in shoots no better than my MTR's. My 7 rifles (The Magnificent 7) this past season in order of accuracy, shot by 7 different shooters, about 20-25 targets each:
Anschutz 1710
MTR # 1
Varmint #1 w/ Lilja barrel
10/22 #2 w/ Kidd barrel
MTR #2
10/22 #1 w/ kidd barrel
Varmint #2 (soon to have new barrel)
 
#10 ·
JW - I personally doubt that they check before and after the process for Every chamber - Altho that would be "Best practice".
Funguns, your idea makes more sense - if the reamer is worn it might cut a couple thou-less material, leaving the chamber that bit tighter. IMO
Bigbore - That would be ideal, but I wonder how strictly CZ follows that sort of protocol? Anyway, CIP tolerance will still leave some barrels tighter than others. It all depends on what the tolerances are and how strictly they are followed. JMO
Flinthills, I agree with your testing. I have a VMTR and a 455-SS. The 455 cases will stick in the VMTR, and the VMTR engraves the bullets when inserted - the 455 doesn't.
 
#12 ·
Bigbore - That would be ideal, but I wonder how strictly CZ follows that sort of protocol? Anyway, CIP tolerance will still leave some barrels tighter than others. It all depends on what the tolerances are and how strictly they are followed. JMO
Usually manufacturers know how many parts they'll get out of a tool; it's basic machining that has been well understood for a hundred years.