Volquartsen firing pin is the best fixed many of my guns

 

Fixed I believe

So..went to the range today and fired around 100 rounds of mixed ammo, Wolf, Eley, SK and they ALL went off.... Hurray!

Image shows two firing pin strikes, bottom no joy, top is after reshaping the firing pin and it works great. No other changes

 

Another FP shaping convert! Well done. :bthumb:

Hits like the top one = Non ammo picky pistol.

 

Looks like you figured it out by yourself.

The dynamics of the firing pin is very important. I went through the same problem and thought it was ammo related turned out to be the ammo was not going fully into battery so I got rid of the offending stuff.

Later it happened with my go-to ammo so the search was back on. Firing Pin was the problem. I installed the Voquartsen pin and haven't had a FTF since and have fired over 1000 rounds.

 

Overkill

Everything seems to work.....But

When it comes to my firearms I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy...and I was in the Boy Scouts and being prepared was our motto, went ahead and ordered the Volquartsen firing pin.

You know, just in case:bthumb:

 

Thanks!

And I forgot to say thanks for your replies by the way, this really is a good forum!

 

Light Firing Pin Strikes

I've been running my Mk IV 22/45 and put a couple thousand rounds through it. So I've got a little experience with it.

The Mk IV requires more cleaning than older 22s. If you look into the open ejection port, the gun accumulates crud on the far inside wall of the receiver which restricts bolt travel. Besides Hoppes, I found a suitable scraper was the square end of a 6 inch steel ruler.

Another place that gathers crud is the recoil spring assembly. Push the slider down and scrub the shaft of the spring guide clean.

The firing pin is also susceptible to accumulating crud. I soak the the end of the bolt in Hoppes, scrub the bolt face with a brush and use Gun Scrubber or brake cleaner to make sure I've got all the crud out.

Not all ammunition is created equal. I used Federal AM22 Automatch for decades until Federal "improved" something. Now I get 1 to 3 duds per 100. CCI Standard Velocity was working OK until I started having misfires.

That's when I realized the gun required a detailed cleaning. After cleaning, CCI Std Vel worked OK again and the Federal Automatch duds decreased to 1 per 100.
The CCI Std Vel is still better. My chronograph data showed that the CCI ammo was running +/- 50 fps wil the Federal Automatch was running +/- 100 fps.

 

The Mk IV requires more cleaning than older 22s.

Another place that gathers crud is the recoil spring assembly. Push the slider down and scrub the shaft of the spring guide clean.

The firing pin is also susceptible to accumulating crud.

Not all ammunition is created equal. I used Federal AM22 Automatch for decades until Federal "improved" something. Now I get 1 to 3 duds per 100. CCI Standard Velocity was working OK until I started having misfires.

That's when I realized the gun required a detailed cleaning.

I have to agree with SMAPTRAP. I've had the same experiences with AutoMatch. It was my Go-To ammo but I started getting duds even with my Mark III Hunter. I just picked up a case before prices went crazy. With my clean Mark IVs I'm getting less FTFs when I clean the gun religiously. I put my bolt in my sonic cleaner and then blow it out with a can of air.

I use Volquarten bolts in two of my guns. They are the slickest things you can get. You do not need to oil them at all. I run a stock Ruger bolt in my 5.5 inch target barrel though and it requires being disassembly from time to time.

 

There are a couple of things that most people don't think about when they complain of "light firing pin strikes". Almost everyone can produce spent brass that obviously shows a light strike and a deeper strike - the deeper strike representing the results of cartridge ignition success.. That in itself isn't proof of anything and the reason is as follows. When a cartridge actually fires, the first thing that happens is that the case (being the lightest component) is blown backwards toward the breech by the burning powder charge. Since the firing pin cannot retract as fast as the case can move rearward, the strike mark will be enlarged when the case is thrown back against it. Thus, the deeper mark is deceptive, since it really represents 2 events: the strike by the firing pin and also the case being thrust backward against it by the burning powder.

Furthermore, the lighter strike on the case rim more closely represents what is caused by the actual firing pin hitting the rim but not causing ignition. The lighter strike mark, in that case, may actually represent "light strikes" that will not cause reliable ignition. The fact is that ALL of the firing pin strikes in that particular firearm will be "light". Some of the ammo will work and a certain percentage will not. No 2 rounds will have exactly the same requirements to fire. Ignition of primers and powder follows a statistical distribution, so if the mainspring is replaced by a weaker aftermarket special, it is statistically more likely that fewer cartridges will fire.

Having said as much, a weaker mainspring will probably result in a lighter trigger pull, and we all like that idea. In realville, the weaker spring results in a lighter f.p. strike. The lighter strike places that firearm's likelihood of cartridge ignition out further along the bell curve and away from 100% reliability. Everything is a compromise. The shooter notices that Anything he does to the firearm changes the symptom, further complicating the search for reliable operation. Changing the shape of the firing pin, for example (ahem) will change the symptom a little either up or down. The new shape is a red herring, and does not point to the firing pin as the culprit. Chrome plating your oil dipstick will usually not make your engine run better.

One final consideration on the subject is the fit of the cartridges in the chamber. If the cartridge chambers incompletely, the firing pin will expend some of its energy pushing it all the way in, and thus the f.p. will actually strike the primer with reduced energy. This is why changing ammo might result in more consistent ignition. It does not indicate that you have crummy ammo. Excessive headspace will also result in the same symptom simply because the firing pin is too far away from the rim of the cartridge. How many shooters check their headspace?

Just a few thoughts on what is mistakenly referred to as "light primer strikes" or "light firing pin strikes" Factory engineers are plenty well aware of the shape of their f.p. If you have a superior design, they might consider giving you a commission on your invention. Can't hurt to ask!

MyNameIsEarl

 

...Factory engineers are plenty well aware of the shape of their f.p. If you have a superior design, they might consider giving you a commission on your invention. Can't hurt to ask!

MyNameIsEarl

LOL.

 

Simple fix put volquartsen firing pin and be done with it and don’t over lube it ! Clean with tooth brush

 

Simple fix put volquartsen firing pin and be done with it and don't over lube it ! Clean with tooth brush

This is the correct answer.

 

I'd like to know what the difference is between the original firing pin profile and the profile after you did you magic. I'd like to do the same.

 

replies

To Sir, please look at the picture above and you can deduce the modifications, basically I tried to replicate the firing pin strikes from my Anschutz and not the wide and very large strike shown and at the same time move the strike just barely off the very edge of the cartridge where the fold of the brass is. This modification is covered in detail on the CZ forum and may on others as well.

To the naysayers, it worked,

But he says it must have been not clean or the spring or this or that or Blah Blah Blah, and I say, you did not read the first post where I detailed how clean it was and all original parts and second of all....it worked.

 

Patent

Tried for the patent,... Anschutz beat me to it....dang it, destined to be poor:bthumb:

 

There are a couple of things that most people don't think about when they complain of "light firing pin strikes".

More than a couple of things IMO. So let's look at your observations/beliefs...

Almost everyone can produce spent brass that obviously shows a light strike and a deeper strike - the deeper strike representing the results of cartridge ignition success.. That in itself isn't proof of anything and the reason is as follows. When a cartridge actually fires, the first thing that happens is that the case (being the lightest component) is blown backwards toward the breech by the burning powder charge. Since the firing pin cannot retract as fast as the case can move rearward, the strike mark will be enlarged when the case is thrown back against it. Thus, the deeper mark is deceptive, since it really represents 2 events: the strike by the firing pin and also the case being thrust backward against it by the burning powder.

Easy enough to test your thought: Simply pull the "dud" bullet and dump the powder before dropping the hammer a second time. No blow-back and no case expansion. Compare the 2 hits. Is one hit deeper than the other? Probably.

The fact is that ALL of the firing pin strikes in that particular firearm will be "light".

Probably NOT TRUE in 99%+ of firearms.

A weak mainspring is usually not the problem. Lots of things contribute to, or directly cause FTFs. Dirty chamber, dirty FP channel, dirty magazine are the most common problems. Excess headspace, insufficient FP protrusion, and broken/missing rebound springs are also possible causes.

One of the things not mentioned often enough is friction. The energy stored in the mainspring is nearly constant shot-to-shot. But the energy that is delivered by the FP typically varies by quite a lot. The difference is the amount of energy lost during a particular hammer drop. Low enough loss = Bang; Too much loss = light strike.

Some of the ammo will work and a certain percentage will not. No 2 rounds will have exactly the same requirements to fire. Ignition of primers and powder follows a statistical distribution

So what percentage will work? Do you have a distribution graph you can share?

While I agree that no 2 rounds are exactly the same, I find that every round goes "Bang" when the priming pocket is crushed completely closed. Of course that assumes you haven't stored your ammo in the bottom of an aquarium, or otherwise abused it beyond reason.

Everything is a compromise.

Very true. Like cost vs. quality. Ruger could easily put more time and effort into minimizing friction and hand fitting every part for maximum reliability. But do you really want to spend several thousand dollars for the increased quality? Most people are happy spending only a few hundred dollars, knowing the gun has room for improvement.

The shooter notices that Anything he does to the firearm changes the symptom, further complicating the search for reliable operation. Changing the shape of the firing pin, for example (ahem) will change the symptom a little either up or down. The new shape is a red herring, and does not point to the firing pin as the culprit.

Well Earl, I went down the rabbit hole to eliminate all (possibility of) failures while using any ammo on my Mk3. It started out with more failures (various types) in a single mag than most people experience in an entire brick. It took 2 years of work testing, redesigning, and remanufacturing to get it to better than 99.99% reliability. (That's less than 1 failure per 10,000 rounds.)

I can assure you that shaping the FP is NOT a red herring. It makes a significant difference to target the priming mix instead of the thick brass outer rim. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that it will make FTFs disappear if other problems are present. But when every other problem has been eliminated - shaping is the only thing that will provide large improvement.

Factory engineers are plenty well aware of the shape of their f.p. If you have a superior design, they might consider giving you a commission on your invention. Can't hurt to ask!

The reason factory engineers don't change the shape is because precision placement of the (reduced size) hit becomes critical. It basically requires hand fitting, which ain't happening (as discussed above).

Thanks for your thoughts! You just need to get an extra pin, shape it, and do some first hand comparing. I'll bet you become a convert as well. :bthumb:

 

Reshaping the FP is likely making up for something else. The smaller tip profile taking less effort to impart a dent in the brass for example. Test Engineer posted about a weak mainspring probably not being an issue. However, I had a Mark II that from the factory was just as the OP described. It went on for years until I finally sat down with it one day to figure it out. I ended up replacing the mainspring, and it cured it's issue. When comparing the original and new springs side by side, the new one was longer.

 

Reshaping the FP is likely making up for something else. The smaller tip profile taking less effort to impart a dent in the brass for example. Test Engineer posted about a weak mainspring probably not being an issue. However, I had a Mark II that from the factory was just as the OP described. It went on for years until I finally sat down with it one day to figure it out. I ended up replacing the mainspring, and it cured it's issue. When comparing the original and new springs side by side, the new one was longer.

You raise a good point. The mainspring in my Mk2 is significantly weaker than the one in my MK3. It really needs replaced to improve the reliability of my mostly stock Mk2. Before reshaping it's FP, it would FTF about once in every 300-500 rounds. After reshaping (the only change), it fails about once every 7000-8000 rounds.

However, my Mk3 hammer group has no friction, while my Mk2 has the "normal" amount. If I put the Mk2 mainspring into the Mk3 - it continues to chug along without failures. So IME, friction plays a bigger role in failures than a weak spring does.

It's all about having enough energy directed to crushing the priming mix. So having a strong enough MS to overcome friction losses and smash the priming IS important. :t

 

Thanks!

Thank you Mr Test Engineer for keeping this civil, I was afraid it would devolve into sniping.
My pistol was entirely stock when I started and less than probably 200 rounds through it and a Hawkeye borescope showed a pristine chamber after cleaning.

While reading threads in this subforum there was much talk regarding Rugers double hole firing pin (which is what I had) being of poor design and breaking at the forward hole and causing damage to the pistol so I was going to replace it with a different brand of a better design anyway.

My firing pin strikes were HUGE compared to some of my other .22s (CZ, Anschutz, Savage, even an ancient Browning Challenger) and I was especially impressed with Anschutz firing pin strikes, they were quite small by comparison and off the fold at the rim.

I proceeded very slowly to file and test, file and test, (Careful, like doing the sear on a 1911) until the strikes were just barely off the fold at the rim and then reshaped it to make strikes more in line with my other .22s.

The strikes became much deeper as I progressed and now are as deep as my Anschutz, I attribute this to being off the fold at the rim, and reducing the striking area, a simple pounds per square inch formula, reduce the square inch, pounds go up.

Elsewhere it has been said that Ruger has changed to a different and better designed (possibly Volquartsen? ) firing pin, which is tantamount to admitting a problem.

I have been toying with the idea of buying another .22, a MK IV 22/45 to mimic my 1911's and if I do you can bet after firing a couple of rounds I will be looking at those spent casings:bthumb:

Thanks again for your helpful input.

 

More

And one more thing

The below is incorrect.

Almost everyone can produce spent brass that obviously shows a light strike and a deeper strike - the deeper strike representing the results of cartridge ignition success.. That in itself isn't proof of anything and the reason is as follows. When a cartridge actually fires, the first thing that happens is that the case (being the lightest component) is blown backwards toward the breech by the burning powder charge. Since the firing pin cannot retract as fast as the case can move rearward, the strike mark will be enlarged when the case is thrown back against it. Thus, the deeper mark is deceptive, since it really represents 2 events: the strike by the firing pin and also the case being thrust backward against it by the burning powder.

The light strike at the bottom in the picture was the one that actually fired the cartridge, the deeper one at the top is of the fired cartridge after the firing pin being reworked.

 

And one more thing

The below is incorrect.

Earl: "When a cartridge actually fires, the first thing that happens is that the case (being the lightest component) is blown backwards toward the breech by the burning powder charge. Since the firing pin cannot retract as fast as the case can move rearward, the strike mark will be enlarged when the case is thrown back against it."

I don't know that this thought is completely incorrect. But I do think it's overstated.

Consider firing a round that has a .038 rim thickness from a bolt that has a .048 head space. That would be a blow back distance of .010 before the case is against the bolt. IF the firing pin stayed forward while the brass deformed around to close the gap, the imprint would only be .010 deeper. But more importantly - 2 hole firing pins would never break.

The fact is, the 2-hole firing pin IS thrown back by the case blowing back thru the head space. It absorbs enough of the blow back energy to break, and it's a steel pin! (Of course the damage is accumulated through multiple shots.)

So I would guess that in the above example - the extra brass deformation would only be around .001, while the pin is accelerated back (under tremendous force) for the other .009 of case travel.

I can't detect a .001 imprint difference with these tired old eyes, but I can tell a .010 difference.

 

Yes, when I said it was incorrect I was referring to the posters assumption that the smaller deeper indentation was the one that set the cartridge off and headspace contributed to the indentation.

The larger, shallower indentation is from a bunch of fired brass that I gathered for inspection and testing and what set the cartridge off, if either of them was deeper due to headspace it would have been the larger of the two.