Well, I finally got off my butt and measured my test groups of Lapua Midas M, Master M, and RWS Rifle Match. These were shot last Tuesday, May 27th with a Weatherby MKXXII using a Clearidge Ultra RM 3-9x32 scope at 50 yards. Groups were shot off a Caldwell Rock Jr. rest and consist of 10 groups of 5 rounds each for each ammunition type. The results are a little embarassing from the shooter's point of view but some of my inconsistencies are consistent

Lapua Midas M best group 0.1"
worst group 0.94"
average 0.533" (avg. was 0.488" with worst thrown out)

Lapua Master M best group 0.267"
worst group 0.70"
average 0.505"

RWS Rifle Match best group 0.312"
worst group 0.702"
average 0.516"

Calculated averages for Midas with and without worst group since it was obvious the worst group was due to truly poor shooting on my part. The rest of the groups showed some promise but also much room for improvement on my part. Hope this helps.

Goat

 

my suhl likes the midas l the best

and the lot i have shoots very well in the wind as well
the m didn't do quite as well. lotta lube on these things.

 

and the lot i have shoots very well in the wind as well
the m didn't do quite as well. lotta lube on these things.

When I did my testing, I thought the L was better in both the Midas and Master at first. Then after further groups fired the M seemed to come to the front. The standard deviation on group size was lower on the M, but the best individual groups came from the L's. I also weighed them all and found the Midas M for a box of 50 all weighed within 0.05 grains. No other ammo weighed has even been close to that. There was more variation in the Master M, and in both Master and Midas the variation was higher in the L than the M. My gut feeling is that my gun is good with the L size bullet, but Lapua does not have quite the same quality control in the their L production line as they have in the M. I guess that is all history now, as they appear to have dropped the L option now in any case.

Ron

 

Thanks Goat and Tom C. Lapua Master costs me $81 a brick and RWS Rifle Match would be $70. Based on your groups Goat, it would appear they perform more or less in line with the pricing?? And for the difference between Midas and Match, I just can't see steping up to the $138 that Midas costs here.

Ron

 

The Midas needs to be shot against R-50 to be fair. Cost is about the same and I would bet that R-50 would be the best over all.

 

Here the R-50 would cost me $129 so a bit cheaper than Midas. They also sell a Special Match for $99. Know anything about that one?

Ron

 

Gizzy
I understand what you are saying about Rifle Match vs. Midas not being a fair comparison but that is what was available here at the time. Will try the R-50 eventually but as my groups and equipment list shows I have some refinement to do before I would consider any comparison from me fair.

Ron
I got my Lapua from Charles Scott at Master $69/brick and Midas at $104/brick but I'm sure you've already looked into that from the other thread.

Goat

 

Ron
I got my Lapua from Charles Scott at Master $69/brick and Midas at $104/brick but I'm sure you've already looked into that from the other thread.
Goat

I'm in Canada, so that is a pain.

Ron

 

chance..

greetings all,

which brand works best in any given gun is a matter of chance.. for example, brand 'x' uses a chamber reamer that cuts a cetain dimension, titeness around the brass, throat, leade, depth, etc... brand 'y' uses a reamer of their own design.

eley uses a case and bullet of their design as does laupua and rws.. if you find a bullet brand that matches your chamber, stick with it..

to say, one brand is better than another based on testing in one gun is kinda foolish. all it means is, by 'chance' you lucked into a brand whose shape fits your rifle better than the other..

the mark of premium ammo is, once you found the brand to fit your rifle, is consistacy. in other words, how closely does one bullet follow the other to the target.. if they all go thru the same hole, great... next is, will it repeat in 100 degree temps, freezing temps, dirty bore clean bore etc..

if a manufacture can't make the same ammo today as it did last week, they have a problem.. think thats why laupua built the x-line, to give us very consistant ammo..

the above is for serious accuracy..

if it's tin can accuracy or squirrel hunting, find a brand at wally world that shoots good in your gun, site in for that ammo and you are ready to go..

..ttfn..grampa..

PS.. for squirrels i use the eley flat nose, not for the accuracy, but for the flat nose. it drops them like a rock without the damage of a hollow point.. it ain't expensive,, one 50 round box will last me two years..

 

which brand works best in any given gun is a matter of chance.. for example, brand 'x' uses a chamber reamer that cuts a cetain dimension, titeness around the brass, throat, leade, depth, etc... brand 'y' uses a reamer of their own design.

to say, one brand is better than another based on testing in one gun is kinda foolish. all it means is, by 'chance' you lucked into a brand whose shape fits your rifle better than the other..

I seem to have been "blessed" with a gun that distinguishes between target ammo based on price. The higher the price the smaller the group. You can see my results below of testing to date. The last column is the estimated 5 shot group size. The amber color cells are backed up with actual 5 shot groups, to verify the estimte is reasonable. I had a box of the Win X22LRH left over from testing, and shot 10 five shot groups with it today, just to get another data point. Target looked like it had been hit with a shotgun. Average group size was 1.194" with a huge variation from largest to smallest. This is slightly smaller than the predicted 1.342", but not much.

In any case, the target stuff pretty much stacks up in order of price. The one exception I have found is the Eley EPS which performed the worst of the Eley stuff. It was the only EPS style bullet tested, so .... Note that the Tenex and Green Tag was just a handful of groups so those postions are very tenative. I may have just gotten lucky on those few groups.

I agree that you can't take someone else's results directly, but I think on a relative basis within quality ammo, there are similarities, and I appreciate getting the experience of others. I'm not so much a believer in the "chance" factor.

Ron

 

Tahoegoat: Do you have Charlie Scott's website? Sounds like a good deal to me.
Thanks,
Bob

 

Bob

He doesn't have a site at this time but has posted his phone number and e-mail on other threads here so I guess it's okay to pass it on here.

Phone (913) 649-7658
e-mail cspss@att.net

Goat

 

xxgrampa

Not arguing with you at all. I listed my equipment used as a referrence for others. The Weatherby action is really an Anschutz 64 action so I use others results for their Annies as a starting point for my testing since chambers should be close if not same. One point that would be personal preferrence though is hunting ammo. Consistency counts, as you pointed out concerning manufacturing, whether I'm shooting fur or paper. No matter what I'm shooting at I want to give myself the best chance of hitting what I'm aiming at and like to know that a miss is my fault and not the rifle's or the ammo's.

Goat

 

My 452 also prefers the best, Tenex and Lapua Midas plus. The biggest exception is SK rifle Match

 

I always had great luck with Lapua Center-X. Don't see it mentioned much, lately. I'm assuming it's still around?

 

That bottom target was shot with Lapua Master M with a Suhl 150 action Benchmark barrel.

 

You have to love those Benchmark's they are the only barrels I use. I am waiting on one now about another 6-weeks till it gets here, 3-G 28"
1411 with 3-G BM no tuner 5-shots Lapau C-X-

Lee

 

That's amazing shooting Lee. Benchmark makes a great barrel.

 

Thanks, I was shocked as I never before shot it without a tuner , I was switching over to a lite tuner setup and wanted to see what it would do.

That was the best group without the tuner on, here are the others-

the second group was a combination of ammo and condition change, the 3rd came close to the first. I haven't shot it again without the tuner, I am afraid reality will be disappointing

Lee

 

My experience has been that R-50 shows less lot-to-lot variation than Midas, not that some of the Lapua won't shoot lights out.

 

Very few guys will shoot RWS ammo when it comes to shooting score here in the states. Most of all who win will be shooting Eley or Lapua.

 

Over here, smaller country, smaller number of shooters, etc, etc, from what I see the best use Lapua/Eley.

R50 is very popular here with anyone who takes BR serious, and those who shoot local club/inter club comps.

Giz

 

RWS

I would like to test RWS but have not found anywhere that has several lots. Anyone know of a good supplier? ANA is a supplier but the list was last updated in June and there was not enough of any lot to warrant testing.
Todd

 

I would like to test RWS but have not found anywhere that has several lots. Anyone know of a good supplier? ANA is a supplier but the list was last updated in June and there was not enough of any lot to warrant testing.
Todd

Next shipment is suppose to be at the beginning of the new year.
so if you can wait it will be another 3-4 weeks

 

That 3rd one is still excellent.

 

Thanks, I should add to give an indication of how much weight I use to use
I was aiming below the groups at the bull, about an 1-1/4" rise in POA/POI

Lee

 

Yea I need to quit making my point of aim my point of impact. But at least guys can't say I missed the center. Lol.