I would say the quick answer is no. Generally age equals abuse, and the older a rifle, the greater the chance for rust, wear, or improper cleaning. Newer rifles have better triggers, and better stocks. So money aside, if offered an older rifle and a new one I would choose newer.

 

AND you might very well wind up with someone else's problem.

I buy new so if there is a problem, it is between me and the manufacturer, no me and nobody.

 

match 54 1965 model

i have a 1965 54 match in a 1411 stock, the barrel and action are all original to the best of my knowledge, we shoot a local match with usbr targets at around 44 yards, on most nights i can expect to stay in the high 230's or low 240's with the occasional exception to the rule, shooting eley black, r-50,midas + or ultra match, there is one new 1913 super match that usually bests my rifle,however i had a newer 1913 super match that was comparable in accuracy with my older 1411, with the right ammo combination and shooter ability, where i am severely lacking, the difference is not that huge

 

I have several 1411 and or match 54s that routinely shoot 200 20X scores on the NRA 23/5 50 yard iron sight targets. I also have a 6 month old 1913 that does the same. I would say that at least 2 of the several older models I have will shoot with the 1913. Check out the scores and rifles I use on this web site if you have any doubts. I wouldn't hesitate a minute to buy an Anschutz 54 action rifle made in the 60s and if you decide you don't want the one you have a chance at let me know cause I'll probably buy it. Only things to watch out for are the quality of the bore, the bolt and action combination, and maybe the trigger. The cosmetics of the rifle are easy and inexpensive fixes.
IMO
MKLSV

 

This is a 70's supermatch action with a 80's MS barrel and modified who knows what year right hand prone stock.... it shoots MOA out to 200 yards NO PROBLEM.. It was assymbled with known good parts though.

YMMV.... (your milage may very)

 

It all comes down to the condition of the rifle newer doesn't mean better if it wasn't taken cared of properly same is true for a older rifle and I am only talking about match 54's in this case. going by my experience I have 3-Match 54's two are 1600 series models made in 1979 the other a 1965 single extractor 1411 as far as accuracy they all can shoot regularly sub-1/4" groups.
If you are comfortable with the condition and you know the seller's reputation I don't think you can go wrong buying an older rifle and if the price is decent it is even better

 

Anschutz Accuracy

CZnut we have at least 5 old Annie 54's that shoot in our group. We shoot for group and informally. Every one of these rifles are capable of some outstanding accuracy. We shoot at 44 yards, 50 and about 78 yards. I'll give you the last recorded stats 2012 for one of these old Annies these are 10 groups of 3 shots from a bench using bench rest techniques, scope a cheap 20X scope, no tuners, some have BR stocks. At 44yds under various conditions this Annie shot the following, .341, .323 SKRM, SKM .397, RWS .366, Lapua Midas M .340. That's 50 shots of different middle priced ammo averaging .353 total and .131 CC. This is right in the running with the other old Annies. These were made in the 60's and early 70's. These are shot by experienced benchrest shooters. None of us have a new 54 Annie so I can only answer part of your question not about a new one. What are you going to use yours for? Ammo makes a big difference. I can't find the Eley data it is even better by a little bit. I would like to say buy a new rifle but you might can buy two of the old Annies for the price of a new one. Might think about buying that old one and spending money you save on ammo! We had a new 64 Annie here that after 1000 rounds the bolt cracked you can never be sure even with new. If you know the provenance of your purchase rifle and it has been taken care of I wouldn't hesitate to buy it if the price is fair. IF it is an unknown import from Europe like a lot of them then look it over good they can show wear on the outside and still shoot really well. I would check the bore and the muzzle. There are single extractors (older?) and dual we can't tell the difference in accuracy. Good luck. STBE

 

I have a 1984 proofed 1813 that I have owned from new, which, a few years ago, in the right hands (my then 13 year old daughter) made 2nd in the UK National benchrest Championships 25m HV match. I alos have a 1964 1411, that I bought about 8 years ago for my son to shoot, it cost me £50 or about $75 (I did not miss-type the price and it came in a battered hard case with sights, an old leather sling and an old mitt) that is a single extractor and hasn't got the sight grooves millee in the front action ring. I think this rifle may have spent most of it's life as a club rifle and as such have fired a shed load of ammunition. From the bench it still shoots as well as my 1813, although you have to work harder as it has the 3# single stage trigger. I was able to have the rifle serviced by Anschutz at our NSRA Championships. The sights were still perfect after 40 years. They did replace the extractor and reduce the head space a little. I had already replaced the very worn ejector.

The big advantage the newer rifles have is that they (can) come with the very adjustable ally stocks. This makes fitting the rifle to you much easier. Of course you can add a new stock to an old rifle, but buying a new stock as an accessory can make it very expensive when compared to the difference in cost between new rifles with wood/ally stocks.

Alan

 

I'm shooting a 1961 action in a older 1913 stock. I got the barreled action in 1983. I came back to shooting last year after 25 years away from shooting competition. I am shooting NRA conventional prone and my current best is 1587.My scores have been consistantly increasing since I came back and have no doubt that the rifle is capable of shooting a 1600 when I am capable of it. The bad shots are mostly going exactly where I called them. I have cleaned both the 50yard and 50 meter targets and have a best of 399 at 100yards. Most of these matches were shot with eley target and club and only the last 2 matches with eley team. I did alot of research and thinking about if I needed a new rifle and what I found is that if the rifle was well cared for the older rifles could shoot as good if not better then a new rifle.

 

Depends of the type of shooting that you want to do ,for sling shooters even old rifles will be better that they can shoot , for BR old Anies are no good not because of age but wear and tear ,rimmfire barrels are not accurate forever most start to decline in accuracy past 15K rounds ,very noticably after 50K rounds just had a friends Anie 1913 return from Eley batch testing with sub standard resoults(50% bigger groups than a new rifle) ,guy is broken and already decided to sell ,but suprisingly his was not nearly as bad as a 2013 annie with brand new Lilja BR barrel ,that thing shot 32mm/40round group which is twice the size that stock annie would/should shoot ,Eley guy at the range said better bring a semi auto AK .22lr next time than waste their time with that piece of crap

 

do you mean 4 groups, 10 rounds a group?
32mm is about 1.26 inch, at 50 meters, a 40 rounds group size of 1.26 inch is not too bad( not good), i know most of the batch testing at Eley with 54 action results in 12-18mm size groups at 50 meters, but those groups are 10 rounds each.

 

At batch testing first 10 round groups are shoot of each lot on stock 20-30lots then promising lots are re shot 3more times and a 40 round composite group is made, that's what we are looking for. Group size is measured on the outside edge,the columns in 10 square show score on an ISSF target

Top guns shoot at cca 13,5-15mm /40 round groups ,most rifles shoot a bit bigger groups but only by about 2-3mm ,anything past 20mm is regarded substandard and in our dealer doesn't require us to take the minimum 5000 rounds in such cases.

Results from different ranges are not allways 100% comparable as fixtures are not the same ,US Eley tunel will make smaller groups than Eley UK or Germany as the rifle Vise is mounted on wooden blocks instead of steel. I am not certain why the fixture is different but i suspect its commercial to make ammo look better. US market is the only one where Lapua (that also had tunnel first) is threatening total Eley dominance,

exceptional group 13.4mm for 40shots

 

I have a couple of 54s made in the 70's that are just as accurate as my newer ones. The only rifle I own that is more accurate is an 1808 with a Shilen 4 groove barrel.

 

I find it fascinating that accuracy drops off at 15K and gets worse after 50K rounds. I was at the Lapua test facility on 3/11/13 with my 52E prone rifle which has a Schneider barrel installed by K. Kenyon and stocked by Alex Sitman. I tested 10 lots of Midas Plus and 10 lots of Center X. The lot of Midas I purchased averaged 12.84mm with the best group being 11.06mm at 50M. The 100M group was 24mm and so I purchased the lot. The Center X was almost as good and I bought it as well. Why do I mention this, because I have 100K through the barrel. In actual competition at the Western Wildcat I had 10 shot any sight groups at 100 yards which were .75-.80

Beyond Karl's work, I believe 1000% in the rifle's bedding which was done by Alex Sitman. Without proper bedding the testing will highlight the problems with the action to stock fit and will not allow the shooter to see their barrel's potential. I can also say that I believe Eley made a big mistake with the following:

- Lapua allows the customer to test with all of their products - Eley only allows testing with Tenex
- I cannot tell you how many groups looked great at 50m only to fall apart at 100m. As a prone shooter this is a problem. Some of the lots I tested we're 14-15mm at 50m and were 35-45mm at 100m which is not good.

A good friend of mine was able to get 250K out of his Schneider before he noticed a degradation in accuracy.

My $.02

Bill

 

I find it fascinating that accuracy drops off at 15K and gets worse after 50K rounds. I was at the Lapua test facility on 3/11/13 with my 52E prone rifle which has a Schneider barrel installed by K. Kenyon and stocked by Alex Sitman. I tested 10 lots of Midas Plus and 10 lots of Center X. The lot of Midas I purchased averaged 12.84mm with the best group being 11.06mm at 50M. The 100M group was 24mm and so I purchased the lot. The Center X was almost as good and I bought it as well. Why do I mention this, because I have 100K through the barrel. In actual competition at the Western Wildcat I had 10 shot any sight groups at 100 yards which were .75-.80

Beyond Karl's work, I believe 1000% in the rifle's bedding which was done by Alex Sitman. Without proper bedding the testing will highlight the problems with the action to stock fit and will not allow the shooter to see their barrel's potential. I can also say that I believe Eley made a big mistake with the following:

- Lapua allows the customer to test with all of their products - Eley only allows testing with Tenex
- I cannot tell you how many groups looked great at 50m only to fall apart at 100m. As a prone shooter this is a problem. Some of the lots I tested we're 14-15mm at 50m and were 35-45mm at 100m which is not good.

A good friend of mine was able to get 250K out of his Schneider before he noticed a degradation in accuracy.

My $.02

Bill

Like i said batch testing on different rigs is incomparable, eley clamps only the action via bedding block so its metal to metal ,lapua clamps the whole stock ,SK clamps in the barrel .
Your rifle might shoot 12mm on Lapua rig and maybe 20mm on Eley rig. So that is no prof of barrel life for sling shooting your rifle might be good long after its trash for BR.
Not to spoil your fun rigs mostly shoot worse than top sling shooters do off hand as the rifle is not free to recoil and vibrates more,so in a BR rifle i normaly expect rifle to shoot groups half the size of those tested with that batch.

I can tell you from 'second hand' ,a friend of mine is works shooter for Feinwerkbau and Eley and multiple Olyimpic medal and world record holder(Rajmond Debevec) ,his rifles go trough batch testing 2 times per year( he also takes all of our rifles to batch testing) ,his rifles are also tested before he handpicks them new in the factory so he has a great log of each rifle preformance troughout its life.

On factory barrels he predicts that it takes cca 3000 rounds to reach peak preformance which is kept to cca 12-15k when it starts to degrade slowly and faster past 50k ,14.5mm new gun might only be shooting 18-20mm groups in the tunnel ,stainless barrels go south even faster . He shoots in region of 35k Tenex rounds per year.
There are some rumors that more consistent and ecologcal Eley prime and RWS priming are harsher on the barrels than older ammo.

 

I have ammo that groups pretty well at 100 yds, but really falls apart at 200 yds. OTOH any ammo I have tested at 100 yds that groups around 1/2" tends to group well at 200.
Now Bill you are confusing us old folks by jumping back and forth between standard and metric. Next you will tell us how many meters per second the velocity was.

 

I learned the hard way that no matter what type of gun, old, classic or collectors item, it is best to know the seller, know the history of the gun and then take it to a reputable gunsmith and have the bore checked. I bought a "Like new" looking 54 action just because the stock did not have a scratch on it so I figure the gun was taken care of.
Test fired it and for about 20 rounds it shot great then the accuracy fell of. Cleaned the bore and again it shot well for about 20 rounds. Took it to a gunsmith and bore sighting discovered rust and pits in the rifling. The gun was fouling up after about 20 rounds.
Learned my lesson the hard way. WillyNC

 

One thing I've always wondered about, can a rimfire barrel be revived by setting the barrel back and rechambering it like a centerfire? I've been able to squeeze several more years of use out of varmint rifles by doing this.
Most of the guys I shoot with make garden stakes out of their Anschutz barrels after 75k rounds.

 

Mr. T

Your information about the Lapua facility is not correct as they have several methods of mounting the action or stock in Mesa, AZ. My rifle has a prone stock so it was attached to their rig by using a rail which attached to the rail on the rifle. This allowed the rifle to take full advantage of its bedding which confirmed my trust in Alex Sitman's work.

I think it is great that your friend has access to Raymond and his efforts as he is a great shooter. However, there is a world of difference between a protected ISSF range and most ranges in the US. Additionally, I am typically shooting 160 record shots each day at three ranges spread across eight targets vs. one target and 60 shots at the same range without ever having to change position.

Regarding barrel life I believe the numbers being quoted are wrong. The amount of wear after 15K is minimal and frankly if barrel wear is so important than how was the Olympic prone record set in London using a stock 1913 with a factory barrel? If a barrel is abused than the results will be seen at the target, but a well kept barrel will last for years.

By the way at the Lapua test facility they use a chronograph and the lot of Midas I purchased had a velocity of 1,066 with a std deviation of 2.5.

Bill

 

Bill,

just because Sergei Martynov used a 1990s stock, it doesn't mean that the barrel is high mileage. He may have several barrels to choose from; I can't see Anschutz saying no if he asks for a new barrel. It's also a pretty sure bet that he does a fair bit of dry fire training on a SCATT or similar, which will reduce barrel wear.

 

Eley also has multiple clamping rigs but one must used is metal block so actions do no benefit from any bedding or wood stock.

You misunderstod,Rajmond is my friend and supplier for Eley ammo , i only hope he stays active for some more time as his status in Eley makes our Tenex prices one of the lowest in Europe(we now pay 10,75 Euro/50 round box)

As mentioned prone groups are actually smaller than those on the machine.Barrel might be good for prone past 50k but history of batch testing will show that its well past its prime.

Factory barrels are nowdays in many shooters opinions as good as it gets and longer barrel life is quite important to shooters that shot in 30+K rounds per year that is why stainless custom barrels are not all the rage.

quote from lilja barrels web ''The best life can be expected from the 22 long rifle barrels with 5000-10,000 accurate rounds to be expected. We have in our shop one our drop-in Anschutz barrels that has 200,000 rounds through it and the shooter, a competitive small-bore shooter reported that it had just quit shooting'' So what can you deduct from this that some go south past 10k while some last much longer ,i do not know better i am just saying what batch testing dozens of rifles shows and fact that very few top shooters use same barrel past 50k rounds,

Acording to Rajmond 1913 action that was used for the record is not brand new , the record shooting Olymp batch is an older one that gave exceptional groups but rifle-ammo combo it used mainly for competitions as the quantity is very limited
Indeed top shooters have barrels handpicked in Rajmonds case he has 2 spare barreled actions on hand in additon to the one he is courrently shooting.

Eley tunnel in Germany

 

What's the story on the rifle on the wall?

 

(me was wondering as well...)

 

I admit i do not know will ask Rajmond first chance i get