There are many rifles that fit most of your requirements right up to shooting 1/4" groups at 50 yards, that's going to be a tuff one.

 

sporter

I have some choices but your requirement of 1/4 inch groups is pretty tall order. also light enough for you to carry hunting. At your price point of 750-1000 dollars I would say a kimber, sako, remington 541-S, maybe a CZ 452-453 that is bedded.

 

If you are wanting an Anschutz, then I would look at one of the 64 action sporters like one of the 1416 Models, etc. Some of these can be had in configurations that are lightweight and handy while exhibiting good looks, good accuracy, and reliability. The 54 sporters are going to be too heavy and too expensive for what you indicate you want, though they will normally have better accuracy.

Outside of Anschutz, the Remington 541S will fill the bill nicely if you can find a nice example - saw a 98% one at a small gun show last week for about $725. I would also suggest CZ....especially the older 452 versions - especially the American model. And there are others. The Winchester 52 is going to be very expensive if you get an original....if a Miroku repro, it is going to be pretty heavy....about like the 54 action Anschutz sporters.

Lots to choose from.....good luck. :bthumb:

Edit: didn't see your 1/4" requirement. If you find a sporter in the $750 - $1000 price range that will consistently average 1/4" groups, send me the info....I want one.

 

Since you posted your question here, I will assume you have an interest in finding an Anschutz that meets your guidelines. So first off, your price range probably narrows your search to a M64 action. To keep the weight down, consider a carbine length rifle. I think that with a little ammo testing, most Annies will shoot close to your 1/2 MOA requirement. All that said, I would recommend you search for a nice, used 1418ST. It is a full-length stocked, Model 64 action that is just a classic and with a little perseverance, can be had in your price range.

Good Hunting,

Art

 

Thanks for the great replies, you are all giving me very good info. The biggest thing I am picking up is I may not have a clue on what are realistic rimfire groups. As I said I go shoot by myself during the day and sometimes with a friend when we can have the range to ourselves. I have several .22's that are crowding right around .500 inch group average at 50 yds and for squirrel hunting with CCI SV that is not bad. I usually shoot 5 shot groups anywhere from 3- 6 groups each time but more to watch consistency on changes made, ammo and how I am shooting. I will tell you my Mach 2 does shoot better than that.

I went to a shoot earlier this year and those guys are hitting the center x at 50yds so I am assuming they have to be able to lay in a 1/4 in group if they want to shoot for groups. Most of those guys were shooting guns costing 2 to 5 times what I am looking at spending. They were great guys, couldnt stay for it all so didnt get to talk with them as much as I would have liked.

Maybe you guys can set me straight on what are realistic accuracy expectations for different guns with scope requirements. Then it will kind of go to which classic design I want. I probably need to get exposure to some other shooters. Most squirrels will meet the bullet at 15-50 yds but I dont feel 25yds can give much of a feel for accuracy, multiple guns I have shoot very tight 25yd groups. I did look at an Anschutz 1416 ASI that is a heavy barrel and I believe the wider forearm but did not feel bad on weight, looked like new except for ding on tip of for arm were the rest stop banged it. I can fix that without being able to see it afterwards I believe. What does ASI mean or did they have it coded wrong? $800 by the way I am 6'2" and fairly lean 225lbs, 51 yr old so can handle a 7.5 lb setup in the timber fairly well still with my back.

Thanks again and I look forward to more responses,

Glenn

 

You've already received some excellent info in the previous posts so I'll just add...whatever you end up with, you'll need to feed it the best ammo you can afford if you want it to meet your expectations in the accuracy dept. You can have the best rifle money can buy but it's not going to shine accuracy-wise if you don't use high-end ammo. You mention having several other .22's that'll shoot 1/2" groups with CCI SV, which is excellent IMO and more than adequate for squirrel hunting, but when you really want to see what your new rifle (or current rifles) will do at the range treat yourself to some top shelf ammo once in a while. I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised at how much of a difference the ammo makes

 

The 'heavy' requirement narrows things a bit... I usually use a Benjamin Marauder in 25 cal for squirrel work. I am about 8 hrs away from my first Anschutz, a 1811 that will get taken out for a squirrel safari or two.

I am getting this beastie to shoot with my son who got given a very fine 40X KS and a Win 75. Quite tired of him cleaning my clock whilst shooting the 75 in the local BR matches.

The others who suggest a sporter model are likely right on, but I have no issue with going out in the field with a heavy target rifle.
cheers,
Douglas

 

As others have said, the .25" accuracy requirement, especially in conjunction with a 7.5 pound weight limit, will be tough to find. Frankly, there are a lot of rifles out there costing well over your limit that do not shoot quarter inch groups. In the Anschutz line, you will probably be looking at used 64 action rifles, and many of them shoot very well, but may be a little over the weight goal. You might find one by the other makers mentioned that shoots very well too. With that said, you will not find anything likely to shoot quarter inch groups that meet the overall criteria. The good news, you don't need that level of accuracy for a top notch squirrel rifle. But, you're talking about BR accuracy here, and that will require a lot of trial and error with different rifles and ammo combinations. And incidentally, many of those target rifles that are putting shots in the X ring will not shoot quarter inch groups. If so, they would all by X hits and perfect scores.

 

Great info from everyone, I guess I was thinking that others are cleaning my clock on shooting. I have tried several of the other higher end ammos such as Eley Edge and Tenex, some RWS but that's about it. May have to try some others just to know what they will do.
As far as the future gun purchase goes it will definitely be a used gun. In most of them a sporter will have to be the purchase but some with the varmint or heavy barrel seem like if I'm smart on the scope they will still slide in between 7 1/2- 8 1/2 lbs. That's a little higher than I wanted but if I sling it right I can carry the weight better.
Thanks again for all the input
Glenn

 

Glenn, I think a lot of folks get misled as to accuracy by what they read or hear that other folks have done. It probably comes as a shock, but human nature being what it is, folks tend to have selective memories when you ask how their gun(s) shoot. They vividly recall the really tiny groups but go hazy on the larger ones. So, I see a lot of folks bragging about their factory sporter that will consistently average 1/4" five shot groups at fifty yards - when what they really mean is that it has, on occasion, shot groups like that. I never see them at matches though. If my experience means anything, a sporter that will do 1/4" consistently can clean up at bench matches when shooting in Sporter class. Getting a sporter that will average 1/2" is pretty easy, but paring that down to 1/4" is really, really difficult. And I agree with the above post about shooting quality ammo to get the best performance.

IF accuracy really is a big thing with you and you don't mind the 7.5 - 8lb scoped rifle, then you might just want to consider moving on up to one of the 54 Sporters. But you may have to add a little money to the pot for a good used one. That said, the squirrels will never know the difference.....any of the guns I mentioned previously will do what you want to do.....reliably kill squirrels out to fifty yards. Dead is dead.

Good luck on your quest. :bthumb:

 

I think a lot of folks get misled as to accuracy by what they read or hear that other folks have done. It probably comes as a shock, but human nature being what it is, folks tend to have selective memories when you ask how their gun(s) shoot.

Very true. I once was party to a conversation in which a man claimed his .22 rifle/ammo combo would shoot the same magical 50 yard, quarter inch groups consistently. I baited him a bit by saying, "then you mean over half the time, given good conditions?" To which he answered yes.....I knew I had him then. So, I offered to meet him on a day of his choice, with his rifle and selected ammo. He would shoot 10, 5-shot groups. He would pay me $10 for every group over .25", and I would pay him $50 for every one .25" or smaller. He decided not to accept.

 

Pump 22s,
Great points you and others have made. I think I was giving a lot of credit to certain types of shooting and guns without having been around them. 1/2" at 50rd will definitely kill squirrels and rabbits as well as give fun at the range.
I have a Mossberg 142a with a Weaver 2-7 of similar vintage that I have shot enough now is starting to be very consistent at about. 531-.550 once again I usually shoot multiple 5 shot groups just to make sure they are shooting on for going into the timber. The great thing about that gun is if my chemo is getting me down and my back is feeling bad, where I had my largest tumor and major surgery the gun only weighs about 6 lbs. I can carry it for 4 or 5 hours sitting intermittently. All I have done to that rifle is lightened up th trigger some but needs more work.
I need to get around more Anschutz and get a feel for what I really like to hold, I just haven't seen many sporter.
Thanks again
Glenn

 

Glenn,

You might just send your current rifle out and have a trigger job done to it. That usually results in larger groups until you become accustomed to the new pull weight. As has already been said if 1/4" groups were easy everyone would be doing it.

 

Glenn

Are any of your current bench rifles scoped and if so what are the scopes?

I'm wondering if a solution might be to upgrade an existing bench rest rifle to better compete and also to pickup a nice sporter rifle with a 2-7 Leupold for squirrels.

 

Bet

I'll take that bet!!!! If you shoot 2, 1/4" groups out of ten with the payment you provide ($50/ea.). I get paid $100/2 groups. I loose $80 for the remaining 8 groups if greater than 1/4". More than 2, 1/4" groups and I have lots of ammo money. I'll take that bet everyday.

 

I'll take that bet!!!! If you shoot 2, 1/4" groups out of ten with the payment you provide ($50/ea.). I get paid $100/2 groups. I loose $80 for the remaining 8 groups if greater than 1/4". More than 2, 1/4" groups and I have lots of ammo money. I'll take that bet everyday.

Yep, that's the math, but few folks will shoot 20% of their groups at 1/4" or less. I used to shoot BR-50, which is worst-edge scoring. In order to get 100 points the bullet has to hit fully within the .5" center ring. So, assuming a .22 bore diameter, you would have to shoot the equivalent of .28" groups. At the time I quit shooting, a perfect score of 5,000 had never been shot. I think that changed, but very few. But your point is well taken, and at the $50/$10 odds, I'm kind of surprised he didn't take it. But my point is, a 1/4" rifle hardly exists, because there is precious little 1/4" ammo! And a $10K rifle is not going to shoot a faulty cartridge much better than a $200 K Mart special.

 

Oldman 58, who would be good to do a trigger job on my Mossberg? I have to check again but I think I have it down to about 3.5lbs with a spring Change, was about 8lbs.
Trailboss, I don't really have any bench guns, mine are all hunting rifles. I had thought about getting into bench but didn't think I wanted to make the plunge in money and time wise. My youngest son is very active and good in Sports and so want to keep my focus on where time is spent while I have been sick especially.
It's one of the reasons I would like a Anschutz that I can hunt with yet ride the bags better when I'm at the range. Remember I just target shoot for my fun to relax and practice trigger control.
I am starting to realize with the help of all the great feedback here that my guns are shooting pretty good and that the consistent 1/4" gun is pretty rare and especially 1/4" ammo as stated.
Thanks everyone, I have learned a lot in this thread so far.
Glenn

 

Oldman 58, who would be good to do a trigger job on my Mossberg? I have to check again but I think I have it down to about 3.5lbs with a spring Change, was about 8lbs.
Trailboss, I don't really have any bench guns, mine are all hunting rifles. I had thought about getting into bench but didn't think I wanted to make the plunge in money and time wise. My youngest son is very active and good in Sports and so want to keep my focus on where time is spent while I have been sick especially.
It's one of the reasons I would like a Anschutz that I can hunt with yet ride the bags better when I'm at the range. Remember I just target shoot for my fun to relax and practice trigger control.
I am starting to realize with the help of all the great feedback here that my guns are shooting pretty good and that the consistent 1/4" gun is pretty rare and especially 1/4" ammo as stated.
Thanks everyone, I have learned a lot in this thread so far.
Glenn

Rare at the shooting range....actually pretty common on the internet.

 

Well

Lots of 1/4", 5 shot rifles and ammo. I buy what the rifle likes and weigh every shell to 1/10th grain. Noremf (George) has a grandson (9 or 10 yrs. old) he posted 200/200 BR targets from a bi-pod. PRACTICE!!!!

 

I am going to suggest a little different approach. I think a cz 455 with a aftermarket Lilja barrel could be very close to making the grade in weight and accuracy. Just something else to consider. Price should be in your range also.

 

+1. CZ 455, Bedded w/Lilja. Price is inline with your budget, weight acceptable. It CAN shoot .250 groups. We sometimes fail to accept the shooter's end of the bargain in doing this and the role of good ammo considering you'll have velocity variations.

 

1/4" squirrel gun

Glen
As a semi serious squirrel hunter I felt it was time to jump into this conversation.
Something that has not been mentioned, and should be of major concern to a squirrel hunter is the dreaded cold bore flyer. unfortunately, this malady has to play into the equation.

My rimfire battery is extensive, varied and fairly expensive by most peoples measure. Roughly a dozen high end production and semi custom squirrel rifles grace my gun safes at the moment. All of these rifles will produce 1/2" or better groups from a bench, under good conditions with preferred ammo. Any thing with lessor attributes is sold off as a cull gun in short order.

The problem lies with the first shot from a cold bore. You should be aware, no matter what the cost, a rimfire rifle may be affected to some degree by this malady. The good news is in my experience, the off target shots seem to be very predictable as far as where they impact, from session to session. My Cooper JSR for example, is consistently 1/2" low at 7 0clock for one shot only. The second shot in series is so close to zero I cannot determine if the error is mine, the gun or ammo.

The point to this warning is simple, finding a rifle that shoots 1/2" groups is going to be relatively easy, but that gun may not put the first round on target.

Of my current dozen, 4 have some degree of CBF with the worst being a Shilen barreled 77/22 that drops the first shot out 3/4s of an inch and takes 2 more shots to make zero. It will then continue to shoot like its on fire until the barrel is allowed to cool down, usually 15-20 min, then the process starts over.

I have owned and sold off guns that would throw the first shot out 1.5 inches and take 3-4 shot to get to zero.

With that I will say good luck with your rifle quest. hopefully the first rifle you select does not disappoint you. My luck has not been as good as I have hoped, in regard to the first shot flyer issue.

 

First shot cold bore

Glen
As a semi serious squirrel hunter I felt it was time to jump into this conversation.
Something that has not been mentioned, and should be of major concern to a squirrel hunter is the dreaded cold bore flyer. unfortunately, this malady has to play into the equation.

My rimfire battery is extensive, varied and fairly expensive by most peoples measure. Roughly a dozen high end production and semi custom squirrel rifles grace my gun safes at the moment. All of these rifles will produce 1/2" or better groups from a bench, under good conditions with preferred ammo. Any thing with lessor attributes is sold off as a cull gun in short order.

The problem lies with the first shot from a cold bore. You should be aware, no matter what the cost, a rimfire rifle may be affected to some degree by this malady. The good news is in my experience, the off target shots seem to be very predictable as far as where they impact, from session to session. My Cooper JSR for example, is consistently 1/2" low at 7 0clock for one shot only. The second shot in series is so close to zero I cannot determine if the error is mine, the gun or ammo.

The point to this warning is simple, finding a rifle that shoots 1/2" groups is going to be relatively easy, but that gun may not put the first round on target.

Of my current dozen, 4 have some degree of CBF with the worst being a Shilen barreled 77/22 that drops the first shot out 3/4s of an inch and takes 2 more shots to make zero. It will then continue to shoot like its on fire until the barrel is allowed to cool down, usually 15-20 min, then the process starts over.

I have owned and sold off guns that would throw the first shot out 1.5 inches and take 3-4 shot to get to zero.

With that I will say good luck with your rifle quest. hopefully the first rifle you select does not disappoint you. My luck has not been as good as I have hoped, in regard to the first shot flyer issue.

On that note I am back in. I too have several great shooting rifles. I shoot a local indoor 1$ a shot match. Everybody throws in a 1$. Everybody shoots one shot. The closest to center gets the pot. It's great fun. So I took my 1712, Cooper 57m, Sako p94s hb, Kimber 82b HB CC, AND CZ 452 out one day. Each gun with its preferred ammo. I would shoot 1 round from each gun at individual targets. Wait 10 minutes. And start over. For a total of 10 rounds per gun. So what I got is an idea how each shoots a core group of cold bore shots. Hands down the 1712 won. With the 10 round group of .207 at 33 yards. (Outdoors). The CZ was the worst at right around .4". You have to figure that this kind of shooting is much like tree squirrel hunting. All of these guns will do .25 at 50 yards. Sometimes. On good days with no wind or coffee. Sometimes. (This is real world shooting off sandbags, and I believe to expect 1/4" groups from a sporter every time would be a dream. And unattainable outdoors in the field)
One other observation. On hot humid nights at our match it seems everybody's groups open up. On cool crisp nights the competition is fierce. Sometimes with 10-12 shooters the difference between 1st and 4th might be .015".

 

Lots of thoughts on cold barrel flyers for sure. Most all hunting shots on squirrels are typically cold barrel shots....Unless you are in squirrel central's mother lode.

I had productive feedback discussions with RFC members regarding "black carbon ring" in the leade or throat of your .22's chamber. Seems this buildup can have an impact on a cold shot and lessens the POI shifts as the barrel warms. So.....getting rid of the black ring is helpful to first shot accuracy. I use a short nylon pistol brush with JB Paste and really work the throat of the chamber. Most of your combustion builds in the constriction right in this area, so a thorough and frequent cleaning especially in this area will really help solve the dreaded CBF issue. I was skeptical at first..lol....now I'm telling you about my success!

 

Coincidentally, I shot my Rem 541S and my Anschutz 1502 Mach 2 side by side just yesterday. i can shoot dime size groups with both at 50 yards, but the Annie is a wee bit more consistent or maybe I shoot it more consistently. The Annie is wicked accurate and easy to carry in the woods. The down side is the scarce supply of Mach 2 ammo. The Annie has greater range too...I killed a squirrel last fall at 125 yards. Let us know what you get.

 

tbates66,
Just this weekend I was looking at a 1502d hb, looks to be unfired in flawless condition. I like the weight, I think they are right at 5.75? It was hm2. I keep telling myself that if I am going to get an Anschutz it is going to be a 22lr so I can shoot it a lot. I have a 1416d hb spotted at $800, has a ding on the end of the for arm where the stop from the front rest hit it I am assuming. I think I can fix it pretty easy. The 1502 is $900, did I mention that hm2 is my favorite rimfire?
Not quite ready to buy, I know more 22lr will be available at similiar pricing but not sure about the mach2. Hate to have to sell a couple guns.

 

I have shot so many tree rats over the years with my Winchester Mon. 67 A single shot.22 lr. or my old Remington 511 Score master manufactured back in 1949 have always don the job. If the squirrel is within 50 or 60 yards he is dead meat. I know the rifles y'all are talking about are Pretty and accurate and definitely expensive. But y'all are talking about killing squirrels. I just could never see spending that kind of money to go into the woods to shoot Squirrels. I am 72 years old and over the years that old Mod. 67A and Rem. 511 Score Master has killed more Squirrels then I can remember. We all have our preferences and they are mine. .

 

Whip44,
I definately believe you have killed many squirrels with those two rifles, you will probably kill many more. I am not at all saying that you have to pay a lot to be able to walk out in the woods and kill squirrels as I have also killed many with a Marlin mod 60 and lately with a Mossberg mod 142A. The reason I am looking for this gun is its kind of a celebration of ending a long phase of treatment, hopefully any way. The reason for it being a squirrel gun is it is a type of hunting I can physically do and I actually really enjoy it. The other reason for an Anschutz is I have always liked them and want a gun that is already set up to ride the rest a little better than my hunting rimfires.
Im still looking and I am still adding to my inventory of old rimfires when opportunity and money allows. Been looking at a very nice Savage model 19, trying to say no to it until I get my Stevens Favorite hm2 done.
Thanks for the input, been wanting to add a nice old Remington like your 511 to the collection but everyone wants an arm and a leg for them now and not in the greatest of condition. I'll keep looking.
Glenn

 

Glenn If I ever decide to sell the 511 I will put you at the top of the list. About the only guns I can shoot right now are the. 22's as I have two bad shoulders and I am suppose to be going in early next year to get the right one fixed first.
Even with the .22's I have to shoot from a bench as I can't hold the rifle up long enough to get on target. I hope you find the rifle you seeking and I also hope the treatments were a success and you are doing well.

 

Update to my reflection quest

Just an update here as I have finished 2 1/2 years of chemo yesterday.

I appreciate everyone's input and have bought a few guns I think have filled both my squirrel gun and bench needs. First I have acquired a Remington 581 that is shooting incredibly well. Started out with a barreled reciever less stock that I trade to my wife's uncle some work on building a mount and a scope that I took off another rifle trade. I then was basically given a factory stock to see how it shoots from another RFC member for cost of shipping. I really have done nothing aside from cleaning and mounting a quality scope on. I had just gone out to the range the other day to throw a few rounds to be ready for squirrel season. The target is just dots put on paper and shot at 35 yds with CCI SV, that's a common shot for me at squirrels ( had put 50yds earlier but forgot I had moved it). As you can see it shoots well within squirrel killing parameters with no cold bore flyers. This is not the first time i have shot this rifle and it is extremely consistent and accurate. The first part of the target is from my Remington model 37 which also shoots extremely well.





As mentioned I have also picked up a Remington model 37 of which I absolutely love. Somebody has made some modifications to this gun all of which fit me perfectly except I wish they had not narrowed the fore arms. The partial target from above was with CCI SV and the rest of the target is just as good. Even when I feel uncomfortable and like it is going to be a bad shot it comes in good. AWESOME GUN.

Next is a Martini Mark ll International that I bought from another great RFC member. It is in very nice condition with a couple mods that I can live with for the price. Gun shoots great, just have to figure out what ammo it really prefers, doesn't like my go to CCI SV. This gun has been on my bucket list for a while. Scope base I built and works awesome as well as keeps a very low cheek weld.





Back to the 581, as previous members have mentioned you don't have to spend a lot of money on a great squirrel rifle. All in with stock, parts for work I traded I have maybe $30 in it. I have more in the scope and rings but I don't factor that into the cost of a gun. I think I would be hard pressed to find a better shooting light weight squirrel rifle. I have another great stock I would like to inlet and put on it but I am afraid to do anything to disturb how it shoots.

Thanks for all the great advice everyone, this is an awesome sight with great members.

Glenn

 

Just an update here as I have finished 2 1/2 years of chemo yesterday.

:bthumb: WooHoo!! Congrats on that!!! Nice rifles you have there too!