I am under the impression that all the 457 models are already pillar bedded. Certainly my 457 Scout has pillars. If that is the case with your Pro Varmint, then are you thinking of replacing the factory pillars with another type of pillar? I think that ammo testing would probably pay off more than messing with the pillars. 1/2 to 5/8 groups are really good for most rifles and might be the limits of that particular rifle and the ammunition you've tried so far.

 

The CZ 457 Varmint At One has no pillars, I’m currently installing aluminum pillars in mine.

 

So, how many rounds total have you shot out of this rifle????

 

Is there a break in period?

 

Eagle0199 ... I sure appreciate your reply.

I just a bit ago spoke to Clay with CZ. He told me to my surprise that I had a Manners stock and that it wasn't a Boyd's and that the only 457's that have metal pillars are the AT-One and of course the chassis models.

He was very knowledgeable and helpful and after describing what I was experiencing (lack of consistency) with the different premium ammo's he was quick to tell me to that I should send the rifle back in for them to go over it.

I can send the rifle back in and they could very well make sure to send me a one hole'r back but I'm still wondering about this stock.

I actually have (2) issues with this Pro Varmint stock, one being maintaining action torque setting and the other being with the cheek riser not being high enough and uncomfortable with the cheek weld or lack of. I have my scope within a 1/4" of the barrel and using the 50MOA rail may be doing some of it but I'm not fond of the options to correct the cheek weld issue using this stock.

At this time I'm considering a chassis or stock with an aluminum bedding block with an adjustable cheek weld and would appreciate opinions.

 

Eagle0199 ... I sure appreciate your reply.

I just a bit ago spoke to Clay with CZ. He told me to my surprise that I had a Manners stock and that it wasn't a Boyd's and that the only 457's that have metal pillars are the AT-One and of course the chassis models.

He was very knowledgeable and helpful and after describing what I was experiencing (lack of consistency) with the different premium ammo's he was quick to tell me to that I should send the rifle back in for them to go over it.

I can send the rifle back in and they could very well make sure to send me a one hole'r back but I'm still wondering about this stock.

I actually have (2) issues with this Pro Varmint stock, one being maintaining action torque setting and the other being with the cheek riser not being high enough and uncomfortable with the cheek weld or lack of. I have my scope within a 1/4" of the barrel and using the 50MOA rail may be doing some of it but I'm not fond of the options to correct the cheek weld issue using this stock.

At this time I'm considering a chassis or stock with an aluminum bedding block with an adjustable cheek weld and would appreciate opinions.

Clay is absolutely wrong....avoid Clay at all cost!!!

I would pillar bed the Boyd's stock and see how it shoots, you may be surprised. This will not fix your check weld issue.

A DIP scope rail doesn't add as much height to your scope setup.
Looking at your setup...Not sure you will be able to go any lower and still get clearance for your scope.

Just for reference...this is a CZ 457 Varmint Precision Trainer Camo with a Manners Stock.

Link to CZ website StackPath

 

Sounds like Clay needs some school'n. I can tell you for certain that the AT one has NO pillars at all. Many of their other models use plastic pillars ( Varmint MTR, Varmint THB and Royal for sure.) Sounds like you are never going to be happy with what you have. Perhaps you need a KRG Bravo.

 

PaPow,

I have about 650-700 rounds through the rifle so far:

CCI Subsonic / CCI Suppressor / CCI Standard Target
RWS Rifle Match / RWS R100
Eley Match

The RWS Rifle Match / RWS R100 / Eley Match all showed some nice groups and the CCI Standard Target did well especially considering it's price.

I just received some Eley Subsonic HP / SK Standard Plus / SK Long Range Match / Lapua Center X but thought that I would hold off seeing what they do until being satisfied with fixing this inconsistency.

 

Tacoma,

WOW ... Ok ... Am I overplaying my rifle not holding a solid torque setting? I can set it then go back to the rifle later without ever firing it again and it will take more on it to trip.

I can see some slight indentations on the inlet action side around the two screw holes and I've stopped doing anything else while deciding what to do.

I really only found this out after installing the Timney trigger.

I purchased a set of Petes Pillars the other day but I'm back and forth on installing them for I will still not have a fix that I like for the cheek weld.

Is it recommended to not only do the pillars but to bed the action also or can I expect the same results with just doing the pillars?

With this cheek weld issue I have to question my shooting form having its own effect on my consistency issue also.

 

I have the 457 Pro Varmint and it is not a Manners stock but a Boyd's. Logo on recoil pad says so. The 457 VPT has the camo Manners stock and they have pillars. Boyd's not so. I have the Pete's Pillars 457 kit but have yet to do the pillar job.
Action screws at 20 in/lb and I check before each session. Screws are where I set them.
Consistent .50 groups with RWS Rifle Match, SK Standard+ and Eley Match.
CZ 457 Pro Varmint
DIP "0" MOA rail
Mueller 40x56 in Monstrum low rings
Factory trigger with spring mod, 12oz
So far I really like this Pro Varmint and the Boyd's stock. For me the cheek weld is just right and I like the pistol grip.

 

cwhuebner,

Well ... I guess the phone call with Clay of CZ ended up being a waste for you're right ... I looked and have a Boyds stock also.

 

Yeah well, apparently the "experts" at CZ need some refresher training. And they're being PAID to answer customer questions. Doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy.

 

I experienced similar disappointment with the Boyd's Pro Varmint on my 455. The best I could ever get was two bug holes about .7" apart, second hole always aligned at about 320 degrees from the first. I stumbled across a McCree Precision G10 stock for about 50% off and took a chance. I'm able to torque the action screws to 40 in/lbs now and with good lots of SK Rifle Match/old Wolf ME it shoots stacked groups of .4" with the factory barrel (if I skip the coffee before going to the range lol).

At the time I didn't really have the time to install pillars and glass bed the stock, which probably would given similar results. Right now that particular chassis is $800 and wouldn't be an option for me but there are others that might fit in a budget.

 

As others have noted - "Pro Varmint" is a name Boyds uses.

I also have a Pro Varmint stock (on my Savage Mark II - sorry...) and was disappointed with the lack of consistency in my groups.

I epoxy bedded the front and pillar bedded the rear receiver screw mounting areas, and have the heavy bottom metal from DIP.

There are some pictures in this thread -

Starting at post #17 - Problem with my Savage MkII FVSR & Boyds stock

 

TrblShtr,

Thats a nice system ... smooth. I'm sorry that we had/have this problem.

How do you like the magazine access insertion part of your chassis?

This is one system that I'm looking at but I've read some things on the magazine access: XRS Chassis System

I'm torn on it right now about doing the pillars for the cheek weld is another problem. It's odd for I had to special order the lowest riser piece for a magpul stock for a remington 700 lately.

Another thing ... my factory target that was supplied looked odd to me ... how were your all's, maybe I'm expecting to much?

 

TrblShtr,

Thats a nice system ... smooth. I'm sorry that we had/have this problem.

How do you like the magazine access insertion part of your chassis?

This is one system that I'm looking at but I've read some things on the magazine access: XRS Chassis System

I'm torn on it right now about doing the pillars for the cheek weld is another problem. It's odd for I had to special order the lowest riser piece for a magpul stock for a remington 700 lately.

Another thing ... my factory target that was supplied looked odd to me ... how were your all's, maybe I'm expecting to much?

View attachment 321939

The factory target means nothing except it will fire...it's simply a function test.

 

jkv45,

I'm wishing now that part of my research included asking about the rifle here before buying it.
Your work on your rifle looks nice and you have it shooting too ... nice.
I like that cheek riser on your stock, if mine had that I'd be more in line of doing the pillars instead of a chassis.
It's not the looks of a chassis for I would have bought that first but things have to stay put no weak links. If I'm having a bad day ok but not both.
I'll have to look into the bottom metal aspect also.

 

I'm wishing now that part of my research included asking about the rifle here before buying it.
Your work on your rifle looks nice and you have it shooting too ... nice.
I like that cheek riser on your stock, if mine had that I'd be more in line of doing the pillars instead of a chassis.
It's not the looks of a chassis for I would have bought that first but things have to stay put no weak links. If I'm having a bad day ok but not both.
I'll have to look into the bottom metal aspect also.

By most accounts, the Boyds stocks are adequate, but the inletting leaves a lot to be desired. As it was, the rifle shot the best of a 5-shot group of just over 1/2 "at 100 yards, but the contact between the receiver and stock wasn't very good.

There are a few good options for cheek risers if you want to add one. I have a couple Victor Titan universal risers and also a Kydex-type that uses 2 holes drilled horizontally through the stock to mount. The Victor uses 2 holes drilled vertically. I feel some type of riser is required when using a scope.

Not familiar with CZs, but the heavy bottom metal is a common upgrade to replace the thin piece on Savage Mark IIs that can easily bend if you torque the receiver screws too much. Not really required if you stick to the recommendation with an original stock, but a good idea with an aftermarket one.

 

Boyds stocks ar Laminate. Laminate is another word for cardboard. 🙃 Ok, Plywood. Glue and wood fibre layered crossgrain . It can be very strong and rigid . But , like wood, it sometimes has issues with screws. Imagine if you disassembled your deck every week? Once you crushed the wood / laminate by over torqing the screws the problem only gets worse , as the material thats supposed to hold the action in the stock is damaged. So now your going to have to bed and pillar that boyds stock to stabilize it.

I dont know where this over torquing stuff started, probably on utube, but it causes lots of issues. I have a few boyds stocks , and just go finger tight , 10/12 lbs and no issues, just like my wood stocks. If the action isnt tight , meaning the action wont come out of the stock sans screws , i tape bed it until it is. The screws are just there to make sure i cant bump it out of the stock when im handling it.

As for the cheek weld, Smashing your face against the gun isnt recommended for shooting small tight groups at 50 yards. The less you touch the gun the better for that kind of shooting . The butt should be in a rear bag, squeezed by your off hand to make aiming adjustments and your trigger hand lightly on the side of the gun, thumb not around the stock . Some people even have the thumb on the back of the trigger guard and pinch fire. No shoulder or face , arm contact at all.Bench shooting and Precision shooting are different. If your shooting from multiple positions, no bench , yeah you got to touch the gun, cause you are the bench. But even some of those guys are mounting the scopes high and keeping their face off the gun unless they are prone , and then use their off hand over the butt as a cheek riser. They bring the gun to their eye , not their eye to the gun.

The 50 moa rail is making you use the edge of your objective lens at 50 yards , rather than the center , which isn’t optimal . So as your scope is set up for 200 yards , Id say your groups at 50 yards are pretty good.

 

I realize now the Boyd's stock is what you say for I've never had a problem with any other wood stocked or laminated centerfire rifle.

Knowing what I do now ... I would have upgraded and spent more ... I thought that I was spending what I needed to get what I wanted.

I have turned in for a warranty request and phone call from CZ. I am going to attempt to upgrade my stock and willing to pay the difference. If they won't do this then I will send it back to them to make it right and decide when I get it back if I do the pillars or sell the rifle and buy what I should have the first time.

When you talked about shooting form I have tried all kinds of different ways of both getting into the rifle and staying out of it too. The first few times staying out of the rifle it would put a couple right in there and I would think "Here we go" ... then it the next few would go elsewhere. I actually questioned if I could stay out of the rifle to much.

I appreciate your thoughts and advice.

 

I would like to Thank All Of You for your replies and advice ... I really appreciate it!

When I woke up this morning with a fresh mind I decided to turn in a warranty request on this brand new rifle and asked for a phone call first from a qualified person.

I am going to first try to upgrade my stock (I'm willing to pay the extra) and if I cant then I'm going to send it back to CZ and decide whether I do the pillars or sell the rifle when I get it back from them saying it's right.

If I have to send it back I'll have to strip the gun and put the factory trigger back in it so it will be the right time when I get it back from them saying it's right to either sell it or continue disassembly and do the pillars.

I will keep you all updated as it goes ...

 

I haven't seen anyone mention that continuously switching between different brands of ammo will affect the groups. I have shoot ELEY, SK, and Lapua through my 457 and every time I switch from ELEY to SK or Lapua I clean the barrel.

I have shoot my best groups with my 457 with SK Standard and ELEY Tenex.

 

I haven't seen anyone mention that continuously switching between different brands of ammo will affect the groups. I have shoot ELEY, SK, and Lapua through my 457 and every time I switch from ELEY to SK or Lapua I clean the barrel.

I have shoot my best groups with my 457 with SK Standard and ELEY Tenex.

I'm puzzled by ... "Continuously?" ... It's a new rifle and I was attempting to find the most accurate ammo that my rifle likes and I see everyone recommending that be done and it makes a whole lot of sense to me in doing it.

I was using a print out of the ARA 25 round card using the 3 sighters five rounds each then proceeding on firing groups down the card with the same ammo and cleaning before changing ammo.

My problem is "No Consistency" in any ammo.

 

Walter I have to kindly ask … Are my posts/replies not coming through in their entirety … Are you able to see them … Maybe there is a problem with my new account here

I bought one box each of the premium ammo.
I shoot 3 … 5 round “sighters” at the top of the ARA target then proceed down the target firing five shot groups until the box is used up.

Then I clean the rifle before moving on to the next ammo and do it all over again.

According to many I clean my rifle to much but I felt that starting off with a clean slate before each different ammo would provide the best data.

 

My bad I missed the part where you said you were cleaning before changing ammo.

Are you also testing different lots of ammo? Have you shoot without the suppressor?

The groups I'm getting from my 457 are not to far off from your results. I got an EC tuner and tightened groups to 1/4" at 50yds.

 

I have a 457 Varmint that I put in a Boyds Pro Varmint stock. For me the action screws stay torqued at 18 inch pounds after I set them. Yours is not right.
I shoot it Free Recoil with a Sinclair F-Class bipod and a Protektor rear bag because of my lack of consistency with cheek weld, etc. The least amount of contact I have with the gun works best for me.
I have a Lilja barrel on it now, but I may change it back to the OEM barrel for a match this Saturday just to see how the old barrel does.

 

I have a 457 Varmint that I put in a Boyds Pro Varmint stock. For me the action screws stay torqued at 18 inch pounds after I set them. Yours is not right.
I shoot it Free Recoil with a Sinclair F-Class bipod and a Protektor rear bag because of my lack of consistency with cheek weld, etc. The least amount of contact I have with the gun works best for me.
I have a Lilja barrel on it now, but I may change it back to the OEM barrel for a match this Saturday just to see how the old barrel does.

The CZ representative that gave me bad information a couple of days ago also mentioned some thread locker on the threads of those little screws. It has been a long time since I have returned a firearm for repair but I now have a RMA return number and shipping label from CZ to return the firearm.

The firearm that I returned long ago was my first rifle a Ruger 10/22 and I just plum wore it out with all of the rounds I had through it and it started jamming. I was totally impressed with Ruger on everything on that return from their customer service to the repair. I cannot say this on CZ thus far ... but maybe thats the world we live in now ... but I myself still don't excuse it.

When I filled out the warranty request on this new CZ I put an asterisk on my opening sentence asking for a phone call before ... but I haven't received one. I even replied to the person that did my return pointing that out ... and still haven't received one.

I will be making one last effort to call them myself again this morning for whether they will do it or not I was hoping to upgrade my rifle to the Varmint Precision Trainer and pay the difference. I could be wrong for CZ does not have thorough information listed on their different models, but the only difference that I can see is the stock.

CZ should have better descriptions on their models for if I could have seen them I would have upgraded. It's not a big deal I created, maintained and made changes on my own business website. It seems whoever created and maintains their website for the most part just copied and pasted the descriptions from model to model making their new safety the prime feature.

You know I tried different form of getting into the rifle ... then getting more into the rifle ... then hardly touching the rifle and have received the same in-consistencies in my groups. I will stay out of the rifle when I get back to shooting it like you and another said. I honestly wasn't sure, I read about a rifles reaction and vibration upon firing and didn't truly know which was best ... Thank You

 

My fix to the inconsistencies is the front screw is just a tad too long and is bottoming out on the barrel. I installed a washer under the plate to shorten the screw to test it. I tighten stock to 30 inch pounds and i was back in business.
Mine likes the Norma Tac 22 and will do MOA and sub moa. Hope that helps

 

I have pillars and materials coming tomorrow and if I do end up installing them I will make sure to look at that.

I haven't tried the Norma Tac 22 but get their emails and they had an outstanding deal on them @10 days ago. I use their 124 grain in 9mm and waiting for their end of the year sale again hoping that they put that great deal out again and I'll buy another case.

Thank You

 

Started reply but don't know how to delete it

 

Update 08/12/22 10:52 AM EST

I just spoke with CZ. I gave them my RMA # and after he looked over my request to actually speak to someone would you believe that the first thing he said was “Yes this is something that we have been seeing in this model”.

Whether he was supposed to tell me this or not I respect the heck out of that!

He said that after the gunsmiths are finished with them the replies from their customers has been good.

I asked if it were possible to send the gun back and pay the difference to upgrade my rifle to a Precision Trainer and he said that he didn’t think that they had any of the stocks but that he was going to forward it to the Gunsmith Manager who was unfortunately out today.

I asked the customer service rep if he knew what they were doing to the rifles to correct them and he didn’t.

I am supposed to get a call back after it is ran by the Gunsmith Manager and I asked to speak with them but we will see.

 

Sounds like you are on your way. :bthumb:
While CZ's warranty accuracy standard has always given me some heartburn, due to their modular nature, I don't have one that I couldn't get to shoot. But I know that sinking feeling when a new firearm is not performing as expected. It happens with all brands and if you own enough of them, it is bound to happen sooner or later. Good luck with yours, and don't be disheartened. You'll get it figured out.

 

Sounds like you are on your way. :bthumb:
While CZ's warranty accuracy standard has always given me some heartburn, due to their modular nature, I don't have one that I couldn't get to shoot. But I know that sinking feeling when a new firearm is not performing as expected. It happens with all brands and if you own enough of them, it is bound to happen sooner or later. Good luck with yours, and don't be disheartened. You'll get it figured out.

Any chance you can tell me what CZ accuracy guarante actually is never knew they had one .

 

You have a Vg base rifle. Your not married to the stock. So if your not loving it, sell it (here) and invest in a better stock/ chassis.

 

You have a Vg base rifle. Your not married to the stock. So if your not loving it,s ell it (here) and invest in a better stock/ chassis.

Yes indeed … I’ve also been looking at chassis and stocks.
Manners offers the stock their website is just unreal trying to find it.

 

Rascal, you asked about how magazines worked in my chassis. To be honest, I shoot this rifle exclusively using a single shot adapter. There have been occasions where I removed the adapter and the process is as smooth as a magazine in a traditional stock.
Also, if for some reason you don't upgrade to a Manners or chassis, there is an option on the Boyd's ProVarmint for an adjustable comb if you order it from the factory. That's if you work up enough affection for the ProVarmint to merit the hassle.

 

TrblShtr, It’s great to hear the magazine still has an easy access on the chassis. I’ll know more on my path after seeing what CZ will do the first of the week. The Manners stock and your McCree Precision G10 looks like they are about the same in todays price. I like your choice of words considering working up enough affection for the ProVarmint stock.
Much to consider …. I appreciate it, Thanks.