What solution could there be other than Ruger replacing a whole bunch of receivers under warranty?

Could Ruger re-mill the barrel hole straight and then supply a sleeve for the tenon to fit the now-oversize hole? Would it be easy and economic enough to bother?

 

Replacing the receiver would be cheaper. The cost of tooling up to do a few receivers then tear down, plus the cost of a sleeve and adhesive and wages would be cost prohibitive.

 

..... the barrel cants to the left approximately 0.70" at the end of an 16 inch barrel. This is a Ruger manufacturing error (or what you may call a very loose tolerance).

The easiest way you can check your receiver to see if it's straight is by removing it from the stock, removing the trigger group and bolt carrie group then C clamp it to to a flat surface (like a metal table or granite countertop). Measure the distance from surface of the table to the outside edge of the barrel. Then flip it over on the other side and do the same. The two measurements you get should be the same, if they are different then your barrel is canted. Bull barreled receivers work best for measuring this....

.70!!!! That's almost 3/4 inch. With a scope on the receiver you'd be shooting into the next county on the left. You wouldn't have to measure - the barrel would hold the receiver off the table on one side. Did you mean .07"?

 

.70!!!! That's almost 3/4 inch. With a scope on the receiver you're be shooting into the next county on the left. You wouldn't have to measure - the barrel would hold the receiver off the table on one side. Did you mean .07"?

Hahaha My bad- 0.070"!

 

I've been on here for a while just reading. This one did hit home.

I was fooling around with my new Houge stock...my barrall was not centered. I assumed it was the stock. I had the stock across my chest sitting in a chair, gave it a slight little tug to straighten it out. Snap, it broke it half with little effort. That was two weeks ago. I ordered a Titan, it is scheduled for delivery today. My barrel is .075 off according to my granite countertop. Can't wait to see the brown truck.

 

I always pull the barrel against the right side of the forearm when tightening the action screw. Usually results in a nicely centered barrel. YMMV.

 

I think I was the first Titan owner to have this problem. Michael asked me to check the receiver as he described here. My action was indeed tilting the barrel to the left. Trying to hold it right while tightening the action screw did not help.

What to do, what to do. Well here is what I did. I have wanted a threaded 10/22 action and barrel for some time. So I sent the action and barrel to Randy for threading.
While I am a firm believer that you shouldn't try to finish sand a turd, this time it worked.

Now the action fit is perfect and the rifle gun is one of my best shooters.
If you have a Ruger receiver that is causing this problem, you may want to consider sending it off as I did. For $180 bucks you get a threaded receiver, rechamber, cleaning hole and Randy check up.

billy

 

If you have a Ruger receiver that is causing this problem, you may want to consider sending it off as I did. For $180 bucks you get a threaded receiver, rechamber, cleaning hole and Randy check up.

billy

Sounds like real good advice to me and I might wind up doing exactly that with my factory receiver and Feddersen contour barrel someday.

This may or may not be helpful to the OP. However, before I got my Feddersen slip-fit barrel I had a Kidd resistance-fit barrel and, before that, I interchanged two factory stock barrels to compare them for accuracy.

With both factory-stock barrels and the Feddersen my scopes needed to be adjusted for windage by 12moa from the center of the scopes range. Not perfect but for what it is certainly not bad.

When I installed the Kidd with the super-tight tenon it went from 12moa off center to 32moa off center. I removed and re-installed the Kidd to see if that would help. NO. Same.

When Kidd inspected the barrel they said it was perfect and I believe them. I can only assume that the difference in tenon fitment allowed the v-block to pull the slip-fit barrels into much better alignment whereas all the v-block does with the tight tenon is keep it from shooting loose.

Now I have never tried the Gunsmither barrel retainer but everyone here swears by it.

If I were the OP I would get some factory stock take-off barrels and start experimenting with the V-block and the Gunsmither retainer and sanding the tenons for a looser fit in the factory receiver bore.

In the end I would hope to get a barrel pulled into alignment. Then I would CONSIDER using GREEN loctite (penetrating) to back fill the gaps IF the loose fit after re-alignment was a problem in itself.

Now I fully appreciate the OP is heavily invested in the STOCK and wanting the final fit and finish with the factory receiver to have the barrels all be centered in the barrel channel with out requiring the customer to go to great lengths or expense. However, I don't think that is going to happen.

My approach for a few years now is to use tape to shim the receiver in the front/rear/both sides to w/o the barrel or trigger group installed such that the thru hole in stock and the threaded hole in the receiver are in absolutely PERFECT alignment. Then I install the barrel and remove material from the barrel channel as required to eliminate any/all interference/contact with the barrel.

That said, I will make an attempt to line the receiver up in the receiver bed when shimming to center the thru hole to compensate the barrel wanting to hit/touch the barrel channel. It helps reduce the amount of 'off center' of the barrel in the channel.

Have NOT had one come out centered in the stock. However, centering the take-down holes is way more important to me than having the barrel be centered in the channel.

That is a hard position to take when manufacturing/modifying/selling stocks I know but might be the right one in the long run.

 

I bought a Titan last summer and when I put the gun together the barrel was tight on the left and a gap on the right. Took a second gun apart put that barreled receiver in the Titan, same thing. Thought well that stock is cooked. Swore a little, took another gun apart, same thing. tight on the left, gap on the right. There is no way you can have three receivers and all bent to the left. Wrong, all three are bent to the left. Michael warned me in a email that I would still have the problem even with a new stock. Got my new Titan today, and he was right, same problem. Will the gunsmither block help if you file the edge at an angle. Witch side would you file to push or pull the barrel to the right.

 

You would file away the side opposite of the way you want the barrel to move. To move the barrel right, file the left side so when you tighten the block only the right side is being pushed. Not sure how much it would help though. You are only torquing the block to 10 in-lb.

 

Ok, what is BS. The problem or the solutions?

 

Maybe you'll get away with angling the barrel over via dinking around with the v-block but in doing so you will unseat the barrel shoulder from one side of the receiver face, the perfect makings for some really squirrelly harmonics.

 

WARNING ABOUT CROOKED RUGER RECEIVERS:

Ruger has produced more than an astounding 6 million 10/22 rifles in the last 50 years. While we love our Rugers, they are not without their flaws.

Our Titan 1022 stock is designed to be fully compatible with the Ruger 10//2 receiver but there is a problem we are seeing with some of the Rugers receivers out there, a few have been manufactured with a crooked barrel hole. (The hole in the receiver which the barrel slides into.)

It appears there are a certain percentage of these receivers which have been manufactured with a barrel hole which is slightly canted to the left and when installed on the Titan, it makes it appear as if the stock is bent. I assure you the stock is perfectly straight.

We discovered this flaw on two of our own Ruger receivers and scanned the barreled actions into a laser scanner to scientifically verify what we thought we were seeing... the barrel cants to the left approximately 0.070" at the end of an 16 inch barrel. This is a Ruger manufacturing error (or what you may call a very loose tolerance).

The easiest way you can check your receiver to see if it's straight is by removing it from the stock, removing the trigger group and bolt carrier group then C clamp it to to a flat surface (like a metal table or granite countertop). Measure the distance from surface of the table to the outside edge of the barrel. Then flip it over on the other side and do the same. The two measurements you get should be the same, if they are different then your barrel is canted. Bull barreled receivers work best for measuring this.

We have had a number of customers return their Titan stocks thinking the stock was bent. We took the returned stocks and installed three different receivers to check for straightness (a Kidd, a PWS T3 Summit and a straight Ruger 10/22). In EVERY case the stock was perfectly straight. There were no manufacturing flaws in the Titan.

We stand 100 percent behind our Titan stocks and will make good on any of our products that falls outside of our very high standards of manufacturing. While there is always the possibility that we could have produced an imperfect stock, if you are seeing your Ruger barrel canting to the left in the barrel channel, it is the Ruger receiver which is out of spec, not the Titan.

Please check your receiver before you purchase a Titan stock to see if it is indeed canted. If you purchase a Titan stock and find the barrel is canted to the left, we are happy to refund the cost of stock but we will not pay for shipping.

Thank you and happy shooting!

MV

PS- IF ANYONE HAS INFO ABOUT THIS ISSUE, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CONTACT ME DIRECTLY. WE WOULD LOVE TO FIND A SOLUTION.





More threads concerning this issue....

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4827529

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=567545

Hello,
I think the problem is, that Ruger uses a molded casting and in their production process they do not machine the receiver Square to the bore.
I believe they do not machine the sides of the receiver, they just sand the sides smooth That could make the sides not parallel and out of square. When thay clamp the sides in a vise or fixture and bore the receiver for the barrel. The bore is not square to the sides. That is why when you clamp the receiver on a granite table to measure the barrel height from the table to the top of the barrel and flip the receiver over and take another measurement, they are different. Because all the receivers are sanded different without a complex fixture that could insure remaining square, that all receivers will show a different measurement from the height of the table to the top of the barrel.
There is another problem, that is the holes that hold the trigger assembly. The back of the trigger and the bottom of the receiver is suppose to be snug or tight under the lip in the stock. The holes will not be square to the sides or to the bore because the whole frame is out of square. Then there is another problem and that is the magazine not being at the right height to the bore and that could cause a jam round once in a while. The reason for the magazine is it is also not machined square to the bottom.
If you are out of square in any X,Y,or Z plane nothing will ever repeat.
Ruger sells a very inexpensive rifle and it works and it shoots great.
Can a barrel be clamped in crooked. There are 3 components.
1 the bore
2 the counter bore clamp section
3 the spot-face on the face of the receiver.
The barrel is installed in the receiver, then tapped lightly to make sure it is against the spot-face on the receiver, then install the clamp after making sure the barrel is in alignment of the receiver to make sure the extractor is lined up. When installing the screws, screw them in and when they stop going in and bottom out in the cap screw counter-bore, do not tighten until the other screw is bottomed out. If you tighten on side first the barrel could turn a little and also cock the barrel to one side and when you tighten the other side it might not be square to the spot-face to the receiver.
I have to go to bed.
Goodnight,
Fred

 

One thing to note about Rugers with crooked receivers... they shoot just fine.

Even though the barrel looks a little odd canted to one side, as long as it's not touching the stock, the groups are no different than a straight barreled Ruger.

 

That is what I found out with mine. It looked odd but shot really well.

86C,

I was kidding about canting a left favor to a stock. Hope you know that!

billy

 

I just received my tan Titan stock last weekend. I have a Kidd receiver and Kidd lightweight barrel in the stock with the same issue. It doesn't bother me as there is still enough of a gap so the barrel does not touch. I just thought it would be one more data point.

Every component of my barreled action is a Kidd part and was assembled by me, per the instructions on Tony's website for V-block screw torque specs and barrel installation.

I am hoping to shoot some groups tomorrow with a little Wolf Match & see how it does.

 

What PO me the worst is of the three bent receivers, the one that I bought the Titan for is the worst one. Just changed barrels around and re did the bedding on all three guns so I don't want to go through that again. It's not touching so just have to shot it as is for now. I just bought new gun and sent it to Randy at CPC a few weeks a go. Wonder which way that one is pointing. How long before your in production Fred? If you need somebody to test those new receivers, I have one of your barrels and a Titan just waiting.

 

Good morning,
I hope we will be in production in 2 months.
We will be making the receiver out of 2 different alloys.
We are making 5 more samples and tweeking the programming to get the run time down.

I will be giving 5 test receivers out for testing. I am not sure who will get one of them.
Probably pull a name out of a hat.

Have a nice weekend.
Fred

 

How does a person get their name in your hat Fred??

 

Well, Ha Ha. That leaves me out. I couldn't get lucky in a woman prison with a fist full of pardons.

 

If I provided the hat would I have a chance? Lol I wouldn't have a chance if my name was the only one in the hat.

Sent from my HTC0P3P7 using Tapatalk

 

FYI
They did this A LOT with the 77/22 receivers as well!
So bad you could spot it from 10ft away.

 

Your describing the ballistic curve.
The bore line is above the target, and the projectile passes the line of sights or optical sight twice.
I really don't know of a receiver who's scope mounts are purposefully made to compensate for bullet drop. That's why you see 15, 20, and 30 MOA aftermarket rails available, as well as rings with different inserts to tilt the scope.
This thread addresses the issue of the bore line and receiver centerline are not parallel. For a test I pulled two barreled actions yesterday, removed the bolt, and pressed the receiver side flat on a countertop, then measured the muzzles distance from the counter surface. Rolled the receiver over to the other side and repeated.
I got <2mm which really isn't bad considering the barrel mounting method.
The 80's receiver was off one direction, the 90's receiver off in the opposite.
I can live with it.

 

Are the crooked 10/22s Democrat or Republican?...

I have a bought new, 2008 production DSP. It has dollar bill clearance under the entire barrel, except a small spot at the end of the forearm. Not crooked. Did I get lucky?

Is the problem for sure just an angled barrel hole? It could be tiny bits of error adding up from mid barrel, to the barrel shoulder, and on back to the rear of the action.

With open sights, both are on the barrel, no problem. With an average scope, I think adjustments go far more than enough to dial it in. High power, maybe a problem?

 

Are the crooked 10/22s Democrat or Republican?...

I have a bought new, 2008 production DSP. It has dollar bill clearance under the entire barrel, except a small spot at the end of the forearm. Not crooked. Did I get lucky?

Is the problem for sure just an angled barrel hole? It could be tiny bits of error adding up from mid barrel, to the barrel shoulder, and on back to the rear of the action.

With open sights, both are on the barrel, no problem. With an average scope, I think adjustments go far more than enough to dial it in. High power, maybe a problem?

As far as I am concerned the problem that the thread is based on is a compilation of errors resulting in the barrel not being centered in the barrel channel of the stock.

However, while bore to scope alignment may or may not be the problem with the barrel in the barrel channel the bore to scope alignment itself in my case is 30moa. I am sure it is the hole in the receiver for the barrel tenon. If you go back to page one you will see that Ole Freak and I have the exact same experience. Only his is off in the opposite direction. I think.

I don't care about being centered in the barrel channel at all.

Scope adjustment ranges vary GREATLY. I have an Ultra Dot (not a scope but still) that has no less than 500moa of adjustment range. That is not a mistake.

I have two rimfire scopes that have 80moa of adjustment.

I have one rimfire scope with 120moa of adjustment.

I have one rimfire scope with 60moa of adjustment. The only one I have that suits the rifle with the particular bore to scope alignment problem EXCEPT that is does not have enough range to dial in the windage.

I want to use a scope with 30moa of adjustment.

I do not like adjustable bases or rings.

Not interested in making my problems a problem for anyone else, and I can solve my own problems, just telling my experience as it relates to this topic. And bore to scope alignment due to the factory hole not being true to the receiver is a problem for me.

As I said in an earlier post, loose fitting tenon barrels (three) all are off by 12moa in the same direction. I can't prove it but I am speculating that with the looser fitting tenons the v-block compensates the hole by pulling the barrel straighter. With the resistance fit tenon there is no way for it to be pulled by the V-block. The angle of the hole is what you get. And what I got with that was 32moa off to the right. Had to use a different scope than I wanted to use just to find out what was going on. This is with a completely free floated barrel.

Regardless. If one has a 60moa range scope and with it centered in it's travel the rifle's poi is 32moa to the right of the poa one is NOT going to get there.

Lets say one can get there but barely. Now instead of having 60moa of adjustment up/down it's only 30 total. Lets say the desired sight in distance is 25yds for elevation. And lets say that the poi due to barrel droop and whatever is net result in 10moa below the center of the scopes adjustment. If it was centered at that distance and and if the windage wasn't already cranked all the way in one direction the scope would have no problem adjusting to poi up and enough range to easily cover 100yds. However, as it stands in the example (actual case reference to me) there is only 5moa of up travel left after sighting in at 25yds. NFG. People who are not used to solving these kinds of problems can get extremely confused if they don't have a scope with a LOT of adjustment. That is the biggest advantage of the Nikon rimfire scopes imo. They are 1/2moa per click and a 60moa scope is now 120moa. Solves a lot of cheap gun/beginner scope user problems.

Again, not interested in being told what to buy or use I am just telling you mine is wayyyy off.

 

FWIW .07" of misalignment in a 16" barrel is about .25 degree or 15 MOA.

 

Of course it depends on what you have and your point of view but for me perfect is when the scope is centered in its travel in both directions and poi is close in moa to the poa at a usable distance.

For me, with 22s, I like to zero my windage at 50yds and my elevation at 25yds. And if the scope is not adjusted very far from its center at those distances I am a happy camper. If not, is all I can say.

 

Mine is apparently "one o'those". I took the action off the stock for the first time today, and checked it - definitely off as in the first photo on page 1 of this.

Nice thing is, it's shooting consistently at 1 MOA or under, so I have no complaints - as long as it continues...

Do I understand from other traffic here that a sure cure is a replacement receiver that IS straight? If so, as soon as the thing stops shooting well, I'll change it out and then I will again have only myself to blame...

 

I'm so glad I saw this. I just finished putting together my first 10/22 and noticed the Fedd barrel touching the left side of my hogue OM stock at the very end of the stock. Just to clarify, would you guys recommend trimming the stock, putting tension on the barrel when re-tightening the screws at the block, or just shooting it?

 

Randy at Connecticut Precision Chambering (CPC, a Rimfire Central sponsor) "machined the receiver front counterbore" for me, which corrected the alignment for the receiver mounted 'scope. The original barrel grouped well enough in a check with the barrel mounted iron sights that I had Randy do the abbreviated tune-up plus the receiver machining. 1/4 - 3/8" groups at 25m from the bench, resting on my rolled jacket. I wouldn't trim the stock, since the rubber is molded over a fiberglass skeleton. If you want to bend the stock, you might try gentle heat application.

 

If one has a scope eye level of 1.5" above the center of the bore and the scope is centered in it's adjustment range in both directions the bullet should hit approximately 1.5" below the poa at 10yds and if the receiver bore alignment is good it should be within 1/2" on the x-axis of poa which is within 5moa of perfect.

Best way I've seen it explained

 

Thanks, I apologize for taking so long to figure out the simple explanation.

I also realized the simple answer to why it's not simple geometry regarding an adjusted windage zero vs distance.

It's because we are not adjusting the tube to point at the place where the bullets hits left/right. The cross hairs move left/right in the tube to align with the bore. Not quite perfectly I suppose, but enough so that it does work.

If we had front and rear cross hairs and externally adjusted the tube until both cross hairs (both centered in the tube but 12" apart) were both on the poi at the same time it would only work at that single distance.

Adjusting the scope is CLOSER in principle to having the front post in the center of the bore and drifting the rear to line up with it. Once both centered on the bore and in line the windage holds pretty good vs distance if the bullet is a laser beam.

This is kind of like trying to explain how to ride a unicycle. I can ride one. It's not that hard. I can't explain it very well.

 

Mine will be on its way to Ruger soon for repair.

I just pray it shoots as well after the repair as it does now with its crookedy barrel'n'all.

 

Sight alignment not withstanding, I still have a problem with a cooked barrel in a 10/22.

The end of the tenon is the breech face. We spend good money having folks like Que go over our bolts, squaring the face and setting head-space. All that is for naught if the breech face is crooked. It simply MUST affect accuracy.

I think Ruger is looking at a massive recall once this gets out past the realms of RFC.