Does anyone have access to the prices?

 

Condition

Century is listing the condition as "Good". In the past, surplus dealers' definition of "good" has meant many things - usually not good in my opinion.

Just wondering as I would like to have one if the condition were very good to excellant.

Also wondering the price.

 

Hmmm

Wonder just how many there are ?

Matt

 

As of Tuesday, 06/19/07, around noon CDT

I had my rep at MGS in Ft. Worth contact Century. They only had the "Good" condition ones left according to his rep, they only come with the sights installed on the gun (one iris installed and one aperture in the front, no box set), they are not in the original boxes like the last batch, no papers, targets, etc. His cost plus shipping, plus $25 for FFL was $725, which means Century's cost must be right around $650-675. And his Century rep warned him that these stocks DO have dings and scratches and are not as "pretty"as the last batch we saw. He also said they are going fast but wouldn't tell Steve the exact quantity left. And they are sold "As Is" unless they are non-functional.

Just MHO, but that's getting awful close to what you can still find a used original series Suhl for if you're patient, and without the full sight set and some factory accessories or paperwork, there really is no collector value. And this is for a "sight-unseen" gun that you are paying for upfront with little chance of a return if you're not satisfied. If I really wanted a "good" Suhl, I would almost rather pay the inflated $1400 that J&G is asking for their's. It's one of the original Davidson's guns with the leather case and all the accessories and will only appreciate in value. Also, the factory sights on the older guns were better than what I hear the newer sights are. The older ones were as rock-solid as those on most Annie's.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Suhl 150's, but for that money you can get a nice clean used Annie from Thad Scott or Mac Tilton or off GunBroker that parts and accessories are available for. And, if you get one from Mac or an individual that you know (or can at least check on through this site or BRC), you have a pretty good idea of what you're getting ahead of time.

 

I had my rep at MGS in Ft. Worth contact Century. They only had the "Good" condition ones left according to his rep, they only come with the sights installed on the gun (one iris installed and one aperture in the front, no box set), they are not in the original boxes like the last batch, no papers, targets, etc. His cost plus shipping, plus $25 for FFL was $725, which means Century's cost must be right around $650-675. And his Century rep warned him that these stocks DO have dings and scratches and are not as "pretty"as the last batch we saw. He also said they are going fast but wouldn't tell Steve the exact quantity left. And they are sold "As Is" unless they are non-functional.

Just MHO, but that's getting awful close to what you can still find a used original series Suhl for if you're patient, and without the full sight set and some factory accessories or paperwork, there really is no collector value. And this is for a "sight-unseen" gun that you are paying for upfront with little chance of a return if you're not satisfied. If I really wanted a "good" Suhl, I would almost rather pay the inflated $1400 that J&G is asking for their's. It's one of the original Davidson's guns with the leather case and all the accessories and will only appreciate in value. Also, the factory sights on the older guns were better than what I hear the newer sights are. The older ones were as rock-solid as those on most Annie's.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Suhl 150's, but for that money you can get a nice clean used Annie from Thad Scott or Mac Tilton or off GunBroker that parts and accessories are available for. And, if you get one from Mac or an individual that you know (or can at least check on through this site or BRC), you have a pretty good idea of what you're getting ahead of time.

Your dealer is just that a dealer and not your friend, in fact he is humping you. The cost for a "good" Suhl from Century is $599.87 plus shipping which probably won't run more than $25.00 or so. So he is making $75-$100 off this deal if you were to order through him.

 

Hmmmm gotta wonder how the poor guy can make a living only making about 15% on a gun. That ain't much of a hump and you shouldn't expect a kiss too!!

 

One More Thought

Just a follow-up to my earlier comments. Please note: I am not attempting to start a flame war here. These ARE NOT the same guns as the original GDR Suhl's that were imported by Davidson's, many of which were later graded by Gary Mitchell, Jim Williams and others. Some of those guns proved to have hand-lapped and choked barrels that were the rival of most custom barrels available, and the sights and triggers were equal to anything ever produced, up to that point, by Anschutz, Walther, FWB, the Valmet Finnish Lions or the Soviet Tula's. many of these guns, with their original barrels and triggers, set and still hold national BR records. Many others became the basis for custom rifles that set and hold national BR records.

I honestly don't know if this batch of Thalmann Suhl's equals the old ones or not. I don't think anyone really does yet. I know I haven't seen any reports here or on BRC of these being the "second coming" yet. I have seen several reports of broken parts, sights that won't track positively, and of people still testing ammo with them. When the original ones came in I was fortunate enough to have one of the first ones that I later sold to Gary Mitchell. I didn't have to "test" ammo with it. I shot record groups using everything from CCI Green Tag to Russian "Junior"steelcase. With legitimate Lapua target ammo, benched at 25 yards with just the barreled action in a machine rest, that rifle shot a ten shot group with all rounds in one large ragged hole outdoors, approximately .12 center-to-center as near as we could measure. The smith that tuned the trigger and benched it for me kept the target for bragging rights.

If the new guns will even come very close to the originals then they may be a good value at $600+ tarrif. If not, there are many, many Annie 54's, Walther KKM's, Finnish Lions and Tula MU-12's that can be had for the same or even less money that will equal if not out-perform them. Only time will tell...

 

You might just check Century's shipping costs yourself.

http://www.centuryarms.com/Century/pages/policies.htm

In case it's hard to pick out shipping is free on these rifles.

 

Yip...UR right...he shouldn't lie about the price!!!

Awhile back I took the time to figure out how long it took to sell a regulated gun (handgun, AR, Ak and so on) in Maryland and it averaged about 40 minutes and about 45 minutes if you need to fillout the "multiple sales" form.
Non regulated guns (regular rifles and shotguns) ran about 30 minutes.

At $30 an hour the guy makes 50 cents a minute so in 40 minutes he makes $20. I'll bet few car/body shops, plumbers or other trades men can make it on $30 an hour shop rate....most are at least twice that much!!

It just cost me $275 for the HVAC guy to come to my house for 30 or so minutes and replace a thing and check the pressure on my AC. The part was about 50 inflated dollars, the rest is the service call fee and hourly rate and they don't need to put up with ATF!!

No wonder gun shops are a dying breed!!

 

Yip...UR right...he shouldn't lie about the price!!!

Awhile back I took the time to figure out how long it took to sell a regulated gun (handgun, AR, Ak and so on) in Maryland and it averaged about 40 minutes and about 45 minutes if you need to fillout the "multiple sales" form.
Non regulated guns (regular rifles and shotguns) ran about 30 minutes.

At $30 an hour the guy makes 50 cents a minute so in 40 minutes he makes $20. I'll bet few car/body shops, plumbers or other trades men can make it on $30 an hour shop rate....most are at least twice that much!!

It just cost me $275 for the HVAC guy to come to my house for 30 or so minutes and replace a thing and check the pressure on my AC. The part was about 50 inflated dollars, the rest is the service call fee and hourly rate and they don't need to put up with ATF!!

No wonder gun shops are a dying breed!!

No, he shouldn't lie about the price. Not hosing your customers is one way of ensuring repeat business.

Maryland ranks right up there with Mass, NJ and the Republic of Kalifornia with their friendliness for gun folks. Here in Florida a regulated sale takes about 10-15 minutes once the decision is made to buy. Fill out the white sheet and make a call. My condolences on living there.

Most of the "Gunsmiths" in my area are parts changers at best. 95% of the repairs are sent out or the folks are told "sorry can't fix it, want to buy a new one". If he is a true tradesman/craftsman as the HVAC/Plumbers/Body Shop folks are then he can charge what ever he desires and then it is up to you to decide what he is worth.

Yes, gunshops are a dying breed. However, they tend to shoot themselves in the foot at times. A prime example of that is my local gunshop. I told an out-of-state buyer about a used collectable rifle and the condition of it to him that the local gunshop had in stock. He struck a deal over the phone for the rifle, when he asked what the shipping would be was told "he wouldn't charge any more than it cost him to ship the rifle". Now the rifle was shipped UPS Ground, the shop charged him $30.00. The shipping label said $10.00, that has left a bad taste and the buyer won't probably deal with them again. Also our "buy the cheapest" we can has driven some out of business by us going to the large retailers. In my area Wal-Mart/Kmart and the like have stopped selling guns. So the gunshops are doing better in that respect.

 

Hmmmm....$10 for postage, $3 for a box, some bubble wrap, insurance and 15 minutes of that 50 cents a minute labor to wrap it and do the paperwork and $4 for gas to take it to the post office and the $20 he had to pay someone to watch the shop while he was at the post office...looks like he didn't charge him enough!!

 

Typical answer, jumping to conclusions.

1...Correct (I told you that).
2...The box was an old one that a gun had been shipped to him in.
3...Same with the bubble wrap However, he did use new tape).
4...Insurance is about $2.00.
5...Wrapping it and boxing it took less than 5 minutes(I watched).
6...Paperwork done on the computer(they have an account).
7...No gas to take it to the drop off point, nor no one to pay to watch the shop, it was picked up by the shipper at the shop.

SO...his expense was: shipping $10.00 + Insurance $2.00 + Tape maybe $.10 + labor $2.50 (@$.50 a minute) + Paperwork to ship $1.00 (again @ $.50)=$15.60. Now I know the dealer bought the rifle for $75 ("it's not a good piece and will be hard for me to sell")and sold it for $175. $175 (Sale Price) - $90.60 (dealer expenses) = $84.40 (profit). He originally wanted $200 for it, gave the guy a break by knocking off $25.

I watched this same dealer buy an H&K P7 for $300. He put a price tag of $990 on it and then told the buyer he was giving him a deal when he knocked $90 dollars of it and sold it to him. Now $600 is a heck of a profit in my book.

We can continue this dicussion off line if you'd like. Email me. What type of aircraft do you like?

AJ
AJ Glaser III
1stSgt USMC(RET.)

 

Hey......

If you don't like his price, don't buy one...

Simple..

Dave

 

dealer

some people have a nack for selling things and making big profits. i think if a guy has a store front building which he is paying rent on, utilities, phone, insurance, the occasional shoplifting, write offs and other expenses his mark-up wasnt too bad.

he has to order the rifle, recieve the rifle, register it and call the buyer. then the buyer comes in he has to do more paper work and then after opening the box if there is a problem there goes his profit.

yes i dont think he was overcharging at all. somewhere he has to make enough money to cover all his expenses of his shop and then his salary and s/s payments and other assorted payroll expenses.

i have been in business for 30 years and havent gotten rich yet because of all the listed things above. its easy to do sales but tough to make a net profit.

bob

 

dealer

i dont see where this man made an exhorbinant profit. when you consider rent storefront, insurance high im sure, utilities, some shoplifting, returns to deal with, other things he has a lot of overhead.

he orders the rifle, he recieves the rifle and paperwork with registering, he calls the customer, he fills out more paperwork, then if there is a problem a loss.

ive been in business for 30 years and it is no picnic everything looks easy but it is not. the little guy will never get rich and amazingly long hours. each and every business operates on around a 30 to 40percent markup iln order to net a living.

each one of us has the right to walk away from any deal we dont like. that is what i do.

i do get upset when i see people upcharging ups on things a guy is selling a scope on ebay he want 30.00 to ship it.

bob

 

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...the Suhls???

 

bunch of trolls we are!



Kinda slippery sloped off the topic, didn't we? :bash: :banghead3 :argue:

 

What Suhls, CDNN is out of them.

 

Suhl 150

I have a Suhl, minus the sights, Make me an offer.