My wife ran a model 60 with no problems at all. You will need to talk with the shot boss, but they will work with you. She had 3 speed tubes cut to different lengths.

They usually allow shooters to load tubes during prep time. When load command is given, tub user rack a round. When you get to a mag change phase, they usually get you to rack out a live riund or pause for 5 seconds.

 

That's good to know. Thank you!

 

Some plastic drinking straws make good speedloaders - just tape one end. The ones from Dunkin Donuts (at least from the ones in Arizona) hold 11 rounds of .22, those from most other fast-food places only hold 9 or 10. Your Shoot Boss will likely have you load 11 rounds for the AQT stages that require a mag change - so as to break position to cycle the action and eject a round instead of breaking position to change the mag.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, Azmule. Now to venture into Dunkin Donuts without indulging---I'm on a diet and temptation is always knocking at my door!

 

I've used the soda straw trick many times. Referred to here in Florida as "a redneck speed loader."

Also seen aluminum arrow shafts cut and made into speed loaders. Of course you can buy one already made up, but where is the fun in that?

It takes a little more prep, but the tube fed rifles are not a problem.

 

Referred to here in Florida as "a redneck speed loader."

I've been called much worse, and I like the idea!

 

Get a lighter and a cheap pair of wire cutters. Clip and hold the straw and then heat the cut end while still gripping it in the cutters. Or heat the cutters and then clip and hold. You can squeeze against the cut to pop them open and then dump in and load.

Commercially there is also the spee-d-loader.

 

Earned my patch with a Marlin 60.

I crafted some speed loader like the OP describes using curtain rods. The trick is to hold the rifle upside down (tube up), feed the speed loader, then swing the muzzle upwards to allow the rounds to drop down the tube.

Also worth practicing is the "load 11 - fire 2 - eject 1 - fire 8" technique. I would fish the extra round from the tube feed part when the extractor did not extract the round. Takes 1 second (maybe 2 or 3) extra, but prevents the double feed.

I did a blog post a couple of years ago on tube feed hints.

 

How about an organization with a COF that does not involve mag changes and transitions and arbitrary time rules?

Tubers load X rounds and mag shooters insert the mag prepped with X rounds.

Prone stage? start and stay in prone
Sitting? start and stay there
Kneeling? start and stay there
Standing? start and stay there

Couple minutes for each stage. Safer for beginners, easier for older folks or those with mobility issues and way fewer sweeps. Less stressful for students and instructors.

Also this new Org could use more standard bullseye type targets, friendlier for scout training than human shapes use by AS.

Tell a cool firearm and Liberty story about American History at Lunch.

 

How about an organization with a COF that does not involve mag changes and transitions and arbitrary time rules?

Because that's the COF we use.

Safer for beginners,

The first thing I tell new shooters is that the MOST important thing in the days lessons will be to learn how to Safety handle and use their rifle. They are warned that the time to make their hits will get shorter and the pace is faster as the day goes on. They are not to worry if they don't get all their rounds off.

If I have a young shooter that may have a large rifle and therefore some concern about the safe handling of the rifle, I put them on a steady rest.

easier for older folks or those with mobility issues and way fewer sweeps. Less stressful for students and instructors.

I'm one of those "older folks," and when I started Appleseed three years ago I could not do the transitions. What I did was stay in position when the others stood. After the others made the transition and dropped to position, I held fire until at least one other shooter dropped the hammer first.

Appleseed has a major commitment to accommodating all shooters. If anyone has any limitations we do are best to help. All anyone needs to do is let the Shoot Boss know.

Tell a cool firearm and Liberty story about American History at Lunch.

Now that's a good idea.

I don't have problems at Appleseeds, I have the opportunity to improvise, adapt and overcome a challenge. :bthumb:

 

USAGI, I'm not going to argue with you. We do it that way because it works.

We all should know by now that you don't like AS because it does not meet your expectations. Do I think AS is a perfect program? NO. Nothing is. I do find that the mission of the program is more important to me then making it fit my expectations.

Our COF is what we teach. Go to an Appleseed, learn the skill set we teach, then use what ever COF you want. I guarantee that the vast majority of shooters will see their shooting skills improve using the COF we use.

Isn't that's the whole point?

 

Due to numerous requests, I've added pictures to my blog post on how to run a Marlin 60 with a speed loader.

 

The "one-stop" stop for tube feed



Thank you, sir. That is a fine set of instructions!

 

The logical point of the mag change exercise is to help people gain proficiency in breaking position "just enough" to deal with real world issues like mag changes and clearing misfires, jams, etc. and coming back into position quickly without having lost NPOA. This is why cycling the action of a tube-fed accomplishes the same effect. I know that practicing this has helped my shooting a great deal - a little while back while shooting from prone I experienced a double-feed. I was able to assess, pop the mag, clear the action, re-insert and chamber a round in a couple of seconds without moving my elbows from their grounded positions and I was right back on target. Before Appleseed that sort of thing would have gotten me completely out of position and having to start over from scratch instead of simply rolling with it.

And I don't know if this is the original intent, but the transition exercises, requiring shooters to get into position under a time constraint over and over, helps a great deal in getting proper positions established in muscle-memory. Something else that makes good logical sense when you have only two days to get shooters to retain enough to continue working on their own successfully after the weekend is over.

I can't speak for the target shapes, but if I were to design my own marksmanship program from scratch, I can't think of a whole lot that _I_ would change for any good reason... other than M O R E T I M E than just two days - but then I suppose I'd get a lot fewer people on the line if they had to take time off for a 3 day weekend, or set aside consecutive weekends.

 

I can't think of a whole lot that _I_ would change for any good reason... other than M O R E T I M E than just two days -

Appleseed does have longer training programs; Rifleman's Boot Camp.

These are 8 day, total immersion, training camps. They are designed to take a novice shooter to a Rifleman.

Training starts with short range training with 22 and ends with you going out to 500 yards with center fire rifles.

This training is what we try to squeeze into a two day AS. One of the reasons for the fast pace of the two day shoots.

If you have the time, they are a great week. :bthumb:

 

I would like add that you can make speedloaders out of large knitting needles. They are 2 for 3 bucks at walmart and will hold 12-22lr shells. Being pointed on the end they will stick in the ground next to you till need them.


Randy

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

 

I would like add that you can make speedloaders out of large knitting needles. They are 2 for 3 bucks at walmart and will hold 12-22lr shells. Being pointed on the end they will stick in the ground next to you till need them.

Randy

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

Hey, Randy, I went to WalMart and got some needles. You are absolutely right! If anybody else is interested, the are Boye Single-Point Aluminum Anodized Knitting Needles, Size 13 (9mm). They are available in 10-inch lengths, which hold 9 rounds; and 14-inch length, which hold 12. The caps are removed by sheer brute, and if you remove them carefully, one can ream out the dimple and reuse them. I didn't try threading them yet, but it's on my list of things to do. They are easy to jab into the ground to keep them handy.

Thanks again, sir!

 

Thanks, Randy, and what a cool idea! Why, I didn't even know knitting needles were hollow. I'll be heading over to Walmart this weekend, so I'll take a gander at these things.

 

Orange and red hats are expendable, just make more.

 

I have a stash of old aluminum arrows, cut to length to hold 5 & 10 rounds, topped off with corks purchased for cheap at a hobby shop.

Works GREAT. With a can-do attitude you can load very fast.

 

Mossy 151M-(a) Tubefeeder.... Won't!


A couple of years ago I picked up a Mossburg M-151M(a) .22 auto rifle for a pittance, because every time the guy chambered a round it would go off.

I didn't know squat about this rifle, but for the price it gave me something to tinker with over the Winter - and tinker I did.

................

The slam firing was due to the FP being welded forward with years of accumulated and hardened grease, dirt, and crud. After some research on how to take this beast apart I gave it a thorough cleaning, and that solved that issue.

Then it became apparent that this rifle was not going to run. No matter what I did, and I tried everything I could think of, it would jam, spit out live rounds, and do everything but cycle. When it did chamber a round it was supurbly accurate - but that happened so rarely that I finally gave up on it and was going to part it out. The sights alone are probably worth more than what I paid for the whole rifle.

....................................

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Then last month a buddy from the club invited me to go along with him to visit a Gunsmith that he was happy with, and just for the heck of it I threw the old Mossy in the truck.

The Gunsmith has been working on it for going on 3 weeks now and says he almost has it running. The problem seems to be at the end of the magazine tube where it's not catching the rounds like it's supposed to, and the ejector doesn't work.

I'm going to have the price of a new bloomin' rifle into this old relic by the time I get done with it!

By this time I had bought a used 10-22 to set up for an AS LTR and have come pretty well along in modding it and dialing it in. Unlike the Mossy, it actually works and is pretty reliable.

In the event that the 'Smith actually does get the Mossy working prior to our club's AS in June (our first one) I might be tempted to try it for a relay or two. The darned old thing (probably older than I am - they made this model back around 1946) is accurate - probably more so than my Ruger.

The way it was designed, it essentially fits the criterion for a LTR "As issued".
The adjustable aperture rear sight swings off to the side to allow for a tip off scope mount, ....

....................................

...and the front sight is a unique Mossburg design that I call "Swiss Army Sights" as you can pull off the protective hood and flip various sorts of front sight posts, apertures, beads etc. up and down like blades on a jack knife.

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I have thought about reloading that tube feeder in an AS format, and appreciate the tips you've given. Hopefully we might get to try some of them out some time.... if we can ever get old Mossy up and running, that is.

 

Memories ... !

Seeing your pics of the 151 took me back some 57 years to the days when I first arrived on these shores after emigrating from the UK ... that was my first American .22 that I bought up in Ontario ... and used it to shoot my very first snowshoe hare that winter ! **** nigh killed myself stalking/chasing that critter across the Credit Forks Hills on skis in sub-zero temps - lol !

Mick - The Fuzzy Limey

 

I figured that if it didn't work my daughter would get some knitting needles!

Your daughter? you aen't buying tampoms, sheesh

 

Someone mentioned Boy Scouts and how they require different targets (non-humanoid targets).

There are modified Appleseed targets that are circular based bullseye targets. One of the FL shootbosses has a stash of these specifically for Boy Scout Shoots. It is also possible to do an Appleseed event just for Boy Scouts and as long as they have the necessary single shot bolt action rifles that they are required to use, there is no problem.

They most likely wouldn't be able to shoot a timed AQT, but they could still get plenty of instruction and have quite a bit of fun. In FL, there are quite a bit of individuals that are willing to tailor the instruction to the requirements of the Scouts. I talked to one scout leader on another board about setting something up and at first he seemed real excited about the idea and then just flaked out on it. I would say that Appleseed is pretty accommodating, especially when it comes to kids.

 

I was originally drawn to Appleseed because of the military type influence on the COF. I like the COF as is, it's great for training novices as well as those who think their "proficient" already.

I also like that we are allowing .22 rimfires on the line for just the sheer economy of it. This has really opened up things for a lot of people. Rifles in mind, semi-automatics with box magazines and bolt actions with box magazines.

Things I personally do not like are tube fed rifles of any kind, lever actions and single shots on the line. I believe these rifles, because of their very nature of mechanics takes away from the COF and the experience and ability for the student to soak up the training. These types of rifles are an unnecessary obstacle for training for the AQT.

.22 rimfires were encouraged to be used because of the economy of ammunition used, everyone could not afford the centerfire rifles and ammunition commonly used before. I believe if you are going to use a rimfire, why not one with sights similar to a Main Battle Rifle and with a box magazine for rapid magazine changes? After all, the AQT was designed with Main Battle Rifles in mind, so if you are going to use a .22 training rifle it should mimic an MBR as closely as possible.

I know that what I have said here will not be popular with some, but all of this business with accomodating those with tube fed rifles just takes away good instructional time from other students. Especially when you have to accomodate those who are unfamiliar with their own equipment! And using this type of rifle just for the challenge? I don't really understand the reason for this, but by all means if you are already a proficient Rifleman, go for it!

Another thing, if you don't like the Appleseed program, go start your own program!
You naysayers belong somewhere else!

I'm an ol' U.S. Army Infantry Veteran, I have been around firearms all of my life, even before Appleseed, I was once a Rifle Instructor stationed at Fort Leonardwood, Missour teaching young Basic Trainees....I know for a fact, the Appleseed course of instruction is superior to the COF provided to US Army Istructors by the Training and Doctrine Command(TRADOC). The Army doesn't teach shooting with a sling anymore and hasn't in decades, does not teach acquiring NPOA, and other things I do not have time to list.

I for one, am one who would like to adhere to the roots of Appleseed as much as possible, I remember reading Fred's articles in ShotgunNews, very interesting reading! Fred has taken a softer approach to his writings and ideas in the last few years, but I'm sticking to Appleseed, it's the best we have!