Competition for the Federal 36 grain cphp would be my guess.
Almost the same mv. Handy squirrel, rabbit and rodent round.

 

Competition for the Federal 36 grain cphp would be my guess.

Competition before 1997?

Blount Industries, during its previous ownership of CCI, purchased Federal Cartridge on November 04, 1997. Ever since then CCI and Federal have been under one companies proverbial wing.

 

I think the 36 gr is hollow point & the 40 grain is solid soft point.

 

This, the HP expands and kills quicker on a less than perfect shot.

 

So, what makes the 36gr round "better" for small game than the 40gr?

 

This, the HP expands and kills quicker on a less than perfect shot.

That and weighing close to 10% less might/should be faster if the same amount of powder is squirted in. Lots of MM folks want a faster bullet except the old fuddy duddy BR boys that measure groups to a zillionth of an inch.

 

Check the boxes and see if they are Omark with the big C head stamp or Blount with the small C head stamp or another company. It will help date the ammo. I really liked the older Big C head stamp CCI. When it was a smaller company I think it had a better product quality overall.

 

I'll look next time I get a chance. That said, I'd have to guess it is 4 to 6 years old. He has been gone for 2 years and the previous 2 years he couldn't really shoot but that wouldn't have stopped him from buying ammo.

 

70s through mid 90s CCI was really good. Nothing wrong with the current production except people seem to complain about the lack of consistency

 

Lack of consistency?

Yeah, that'd be an accurate description.
Some batches appear to have been assembled with a modicum of quality control.
Some batches come off the assembly line full of dents, dings, chips and poorly seated bullets.
Set that chronograph out front and it confirms that vertical spread is mv related.

CCI never claimed it was intended for benchrest competition.
So why should we complain, right?

Sure NIB, competition.
If the Federal version is selling well, offer a similar cartridge with a CCI label.
Seems to work for Hornady, Federal, Norma and Remington with the rimfire magnum cartridges.
Wait, those are manufactured by CCI too. Why would they do that? Market share? Maybe.


Or could it be using brand loyalty to improve sales?
How many products are made by one company,
yet are sold under various labels at different prices?
Cars, dishwashers, dryers...all about the money, ain't it.

 

all about the money, ain't it.

Its always about the money.

Click on the image to expand it and take a close look...

Picky picky, you and my spousal unit would get along just fine.

 

I have a lot of Mini-Mags, some of it recent production, and I have yet to see dents, dings, chips and poorly seated bullets.
Winchester M-22 yes, you'll see all that and more.

No, CCI never claimed Mini-Mags were benchrest quality, but they are and always have been pretty consistent for hunting ammo.

 

I hear ya' sandog.

Some of us are just lucky when it comes to the rimfire assembly line lottery.
Some of us ain't.

Dents, dings, tilted seating, bullet material compressed down onto the brass.
At 25 yards it won't prevent you from taking a squirrel.
At 50 yards it'll cause an inch plus of spread.
At 100 yards y'er looking at 3 inches plus.

Click on the image to expand it and take a close look...

 

Some of us are just lucky when it comes to the rimfire assembly line lottery.
Some of us ain't.

Dents, dings, tilted seating, bullet material compressed down onto the brass.

Jaia -- While I see a few oddities in the pic. It would be great if you were to circle/highlight what you see.

 

All about the OCD, Al.

Gives me an excuse to point out the obvious, right?

Not surprising that most folks simply load and fire as fast as possible,
then accept the blame for strays and fliers, or point the finger at the rifle.
I know I'm doing everything I can to hit what I aim at.
When I don't, I have to know why.

 

Jaja

Good photo example of the three 22LR cartridges showing your point.
The contributors to inaccuracy that you have pointed out are obvious.

In general as well,

I might add that the different OAL of the rounds, the out of concentric
cartridges, bullet seating and misshapen and different ogive contours
are all contributors to poor performance.

The different ways that bullets enter into the throat or lands is extremely
variable. The minute and slight differences in angle of the bullet ogive
as it leaves the case and enters the bore, slightly different pressures due to
how much jump or contact the bullets are making with the bore.

It could be an issue of SAAMI max/min cartridges & SAAMI max/min chambers.
Any combination of the above might cause a ctg. to be a few thousandths off
of being dead straight in line with the center of the bore.

Seriously, if we obsess about these things we will go nuts. I am thankful
that the common ordinary range ammo is as reliable and accurate as it is
under the numerous possibilities to be even crappier ammo.

Please excuse me if I have intruded here with non topical musing.

 

Can do...

1) Visible dents and dings - if the nose is beat up, so is the rest of the bullet.
Indication of rough handling on the assembly line before the bullets are assembled.
Beat up nose means beat up heel. If the heel is damaged,
it won't produce predictable trajectories.

2) Variations in drive band shape/cannelure depth.
If bullets are shaped differently, they fly differently

3) Bullet material compressed down past the crimp onto the brass.
Interferes with case mouth expansion when fired.
Uneven skirt also changes the shape of the bullet heel.
Causes uneven pressure release as it exits the muzzle,
changes bullet exit angle depending on where the release occurs.

4) Visibly asymmetric shoulder - nose to drive band transition is irregular.
Shifts the center of gravity off center causing bullet wobble on exit.

5) Visibly tilted bullet, compare the two.
If the bullet doesn't align with the center line of the bore
it will engage the leade at an angle and swages the bullet unevenly.
Creates an asymmetric bullet, produces wobble on exit.

 

3) Bullet material compressed down past the crimp onto the brass.

Thanks!

I don't quite understand 3. Does a part of the bullet need to be crimped into the case? Otherwise the bullet would just fall off when you handled the round, right?

 

Not really relevant to the OP's topic, but that same "p*** poor quality" CCI Minimag ammunition is currently bringing more than the high quality, highly consistent SK match ammunition on GB. Part of it is just ignorance regarding the SK brand and some of the other European match ammunition, but most of it seems to be the slightly more informed shooters believing they can't shoot the standard velocity ammunition in their latest wiz-bang semi-autos. I had someone back out of buying a case of SK Magazine because he was concerned it wouldn't function in his semiauto handguns. Maybe, maybe not. I didn't bother to mention the incredibly greasy Magazine also gums up ejection on even bolt action mechanisms...since he was backing out anyway

Poor quality control or not, if it goes bang every time, CCI Minimags will continue to be very popular with the vast majority of rimfire shooters out there.

TBR

 

Still has the dents and dings, do you see the difference in the crimp line?
Very clean distinct boundary from drive band/skirt to brass.
No bullet material compressed past the case mouth, down onto the brass.
Case mouth expands and releases the bullet, no obstruction.

Cutaway diagram of 22lr cartridge/bullet assembly

 

do you see the difference in the crimp line?
Very clean distinct boundary from drive band/skirt to brass

Thanks. Now I see the difference.

 

I agree when people are buying in a panic they tend to look for name recognition and not quality vs price. I would not pay more for mini mag than SK match ammo but some will want the higher speed ammo for "more power". As far as the OCD inspection of mini mag ammo with a magnifying glass goes, it all gets deformed when the hammer slaps down and the explosion presses against the bullet base and expands it to fit the bore. How consistently the bullet enters the bore will of course affect the stability of the spin so canted bullets and inconsistent crimp are very bad. But, I'm not sure how much minor blemishes on otherwise concentric rounds really affect bullet flight for a spinning bullet over 100 yards. Now if shooting from a smooth bore garden gun, that may be significant.

 

RC, y'er correct, the minor nose dents and dings have little effect on the trajectory.
But, on a brand new cartridge, fresh out of the box, those dents and dings indicate
poor handling on the assembly line at the factory. When those bullets are damaged
before they've even been seated in the brass, do you think that the damage is only to the nose?
It's not. Those bumps and bangs are all over the new bullet, including the part that fits in the brass.
When they impinge on the heel, inside the brass, before it leaves the factory,
it's a clear sign y'er not getting the best made cartridges available, expect strays.

Still, for a close range hunting cartridge, mere details.

 

You all may want to do a little experiment by slightly nicking up the tip and sides of a bullet and see what it does to accuracy.

Now to do this, you must start with a lot of very good match ammo so that your test won't be overly influenced by all of the other factors that effect accuracy.

What you find may surprise you.
In my testing it will have very little if any discernible effect on accuracy.

Now if you could remove the bullet and cut a groove into the base, that will have a dramatic effect.

For you centerfire reloader's you can give this a go, and you'll find that it will produce a dramatic loss of accuracy.

So I will take some time in the next week or so to photograph some deliberately messed up rounds, and then show the group results.

Smooth

 

About 20 years ago, Koos Barnard from Magnum Magazine in South Africa did that with some bullets he was reloading for .308 or .30-06 (it was twenty years ago, guys).

He even bent one bullet's nose way offcentre and it didn't blow the group out more than about 2" - which is neither here nor there really if you are an average shot shooting offhand.

Small shavings with a file on the base, however sent bullets out 6" or more.

 

Smooth,
if you do post this please start a new thread with proper info title as I would like to see it. Not sure i would look under this thread title for that info.
Thanks

 

Seems we all agree now that minor nicks and dents aren't the issue.

So I'm canceling my proof test.
(I don't like wasting my lot tested match ammo).

Smooth

By the way my:
I have bent the tip of my hand loaded .223 ammo in my Les Baer Super Varmint during a match by single loading a round that gets misaligned and bends the crap out of the tip when the bolt closes.
I've shot those rounds into the sighter bull at 300 yards and it still hit right next to the other sighters. No apparent effect at all.
Of course I was to chicken to shoot one of those into scoring bull.

Interesting side point here. Mounting this scope so low on this rifle made it almost impossible for me to get a sight picture.
I removed it from one rifle, and then just slapped the scope on and took off to the match.......really dumb. I shot the whole match with my head turned horzontlly.

Smooth

 

I was hoping Smooth would post some results.
Always worth the time spent reading his contributions.

I'll add the links to a couple of my experiments with bullet damage.

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11965343&postcount=1218

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12006595&postcount=1283