Started doing this (hope I calculated the 1 group correctly...I got the info from this thread):

Noticed that the magazine tube was hitting the stock so relieved it:

Honed the sear for better trigger:

And my groups opened up to ¾ of an inch????

So I took out my bolt action to see if maybe I can't shoot and shot this 5 shot group:

Then pillared the rear:

Bedded the trigger guard to meet the pillar as exact as possible:

And also did the sides:

I haven't had a chance to shoot again with CCI SV...which so far is the guns favorite, but will be updating my progress shortly...

So....last trip to the range was 3/4 of an inch before additional bedding...but I'm thinking I need something in the magazine channel or barrel channel?

 

Try different ammo. Wolf MT comes to mind. Everything else looks good to me.

 

Agreed, It looks like you were getting .3xx with the cci sv. Try a few different kinds of ammo and see what it likes. Automatch shoots well in two of my rifles.

 

If you try a pressure pad, be careful with the torque on the action screws. The aluminum receiver where the actions screws attach was very brittle on mine, and didn't take much before it went back to Marlin. I gave up on mine, one trip back to Marlin was enough. It does seem possible that the barrel/tube needs to "rest", as in support, and not be pressure bedded. Be careful. ...... AH

I couldn't get mine to get under 1/2" at 50 yards, but it was soooooo close. It's still one of my favorite field rifles, and will bring home any squirrel you ever met. Good luck, let us know what your results are.

 

Thanks a bunch...I appreciate the responses...

I should also note that I am a complete rookie and was going to attempt to shoot some of ya'lls targets once I got this thing shooting correctly...

I've tried the Wolf MT but the rifle likes the CCI SV better, and I also have some premium ammo coming :bthumb:

Good tip on the pressure pad since I hadn't thought of that....

The gun was sooo close to my goal when I noticed that the magazine tube was hitting the side of the stock....really buried into the side, due to the stock being cut quite a bit off from the factory....

It was when I relieved the side pressure on the magazine tube that my groups went to crap

So, I'm thinking I've got to somehow get pressure back on that tube and/or barrel I'm thinking to place some rubber pads in the magazine channel as well.....

 

Really nice work you've done to your 60. :bthumb:

 

Thank you....before I found this Superstock forum, I wanted to see if I could turn an inexpensive gun into a shooter and hopefully learn some stuff along the way :bthumb:

The cost so far on this project, other than some .55 cent pillars at home depot, left over bedding and stain etc. (exluding scope and mounts-- inexpensive ones), has only been the cost of the rifle....

although I have spent a boat load on tools

I think...if I am reading the rules to this forum correctly, that this would fit the Superstock criteria?.....

(It reminds me of my dad and his cars....I think we had the fastest wood panelled Rambler station wagon on the road )

 

Okay....I decided to go a different direction and today I'm hoping that I am trying something unconventional.....My thinking is that I will be able to control the depth on all sides before I apply thin pressure pads

I'm bedding the front few inches of the barrel with the magazine tube in place:

Built some dams:

Put putty between the magazine tube and the barrel:

And applied the bedding:

And the next post I am really anticipating showing my new walnut stock for this gun after I have to cut away this stock :banghead3:2t[/QUOTE]

 

you didn't mention release agent. That shape will prolly come apart anyway.

You were joking right?

 

you didn't mention release agent. That shape will prolly come apart anyway.

You were joking right?

Caught that did ya? Actually, I have been using neutral Kiwi with great success....this time I decided to use the release agent that came with a old Miles Gilbert kit since it is liquid I wanted to apply it to the putty as well....

I didn't notice until I was laying the rifle into the stock that the release agent was still wet (I was doing it without reading the instructions and forgot I was supposed to wait)....So, I'm hoping it will release

Edit: But I do have a Walnut stock on stand-by :bthumb:

 

really nice job on the 60. there is one or two in the 1/4" club if i remember right. hope you get it straightened out. welcome to superstock. just beware the root hog. wizzr

 

Looks good maybe ole Chromie will stop in. He has a very nice 60, that I think is in the 1/4" club.

 

Bed these areas as mine was sloppy. Also give sk st + a try.

 

Bed these areas as mine was sloppy. Also give sk st + a try.

Thanks hogkiller....actually, I think our bedding looks pretty similar except you went further up the barrel channel...looks like by a couple of inches...mines only one inch into the barrel channel...and that may be the difference...

I hope I didn't screw up by bedding the end of the barrel channel today .....
Live and learn...my thinking was....that I was getting good groups when my magazine was pinching the stock at the forend....so why not do it intentionally? (I was also trying to think outside the box :bonk

FL,
Reading your post gave me a couple questions for you.
1. When You were shooting and adjusting the torque on the screws, were you backing the screws out and then torquing them down, or were you just changing the value on your torque wrench and just tightening the screws down? The reason I ask is this possibly could give you 2 different torque values if you were going by the second technique I mentioned, since it takes some force to get the screw moving, it might make the torque reading inaccurate. Think of starting to push a car in a rut vs getting a car moving and then over a rut. Also I am no expert on this, just have been always taught to back bolts out before torquing them, and came across a similar explanation the other day and it made sense to me.
2. If you are using the same brand of ammo to shoots groups, are they the same lot number?

I see what you are saying about the torque....you know it's funny.....once I installed the pillars, there is no middle ground....If I torque to 10 inch pounds, I can change the value to 35 inch pounds and that screw won't budge...It is as if once the stock is in place, the screws aren't turning anymore...

As far as ammo, I have completely run out of virtually everything.....I've put several thousand rounds through this thing over the last 2 weeks....so everything is on order cause no one in my area sells anything but bulk....should be here any day now...:bthumb: (I'll keep you guys posted on my accuracy changes if I can get my doggone barrel out of the stock)....

 

FL,
Reading your post gave me a couple questions for you.
1. When You were shooting and adjusting the torque on the screws, were you backing the screws out and then torquing them down, or were you just changing the value on your torque wrench and just tightening the screws down? The reason I ask is this possibly could give you 2 different torque values if you were going by the second technique I mentioned, since it takes some force to get the screw moving, it might make the torque reading inaccurate. Think of starting to push a car in a rut vs getting a car moving and then over a rut. Also I am no expert on this, just have been always taught to back bolts out before torquing them, and came across a similar explanation the other day and it made sense to me.
2. If you are using the same brand of ammo to shoots groups, are they the same lot number?

 

My 795 was easier to get to shoot due to there not being a tube mag and could have and better barrel pad.

 

Ya that.
Thats why I choose my "Coast to Coast" it was a magazine feed action.
I had a lot of Marlin semi-auto rifle at my local gun shop to choose from.
http://www.ahlmans.com/
My biggest accuracy gain in my build was having the barrel set back by Nemohunter.

Before

After

I still haven't had my bolt head spaced for maybe another bump in accuracy.
My "C to C" has a very sloppy bore.
I was going to have Nemo turn one of my OEM 10/22 barrel to fit her ???

Swiss

 

A few years back, maybe 5 or so, Squawsach and his dad Sawdust built an Ultimate 60 called Polar Bear if memory serves.

I am pretty sure they got their best groups by detaching the magazine tube from the barrel and bedding it separate in the stock. Did not hurt function at all but they got some great shooting out of that gun.

I would also check headspace. I would check barrel fit to receiver as some of them are pretty sloppy.

Last if all that does not do it you COULD have the barrel set back and rechambered since it will not be attached to the barrel.

Just some ideas. I like what you have done so far and you are very welcome in the SuperStock forum with your project.:bthumb:

 

A few years back, maybe 5 or so, Squawsach and his dad Sawdust built an Ultimate 60 called Polar Bear if memory serves.

I am pretty sure they got their best groups by detaching the magazine tube from the barrel and bedding it separate in the stock. Did not hurt function at all but they got some great shooting out of that gun.

I would also check headspace. I would check barrel fit to receiver as some of them are pretty sloppy.

Last if all that does not do it you COULD have the barrel set back and rechambered since it will not be attached to the barrel.

Just some ideas. I like what you have done so far and you are very welcome in the SuperStock forum with your project.:bthumb:

Is it the underdog 60 you are thinking of? http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221131&highlight=underdog+60
It's a really cool build.

 

Thanks guys...that is exactly the type of information I was hoping to get....

My opinion starting this project was that the magazine tube was going to make this a challenge....I thought this because I read a Marlin history of the rifle in which they tried to fix inaccuracy issues caused by the magazine tube by using the dovetail mount that we have today, instead of the one piece sight/tube mount that they had previously.....

If I haven't permantly bed my barrel to the stock, I'm hoping to go with a lot further testing and modifying including recrowning, adjusting head space, etc....


It may be a bust....but it seems like I can read about this stuff all day, but until I put my hands on, it really isn't driven home...

we'll see if I can join the superstock ranks....I love the forum idea/concept

 

It may be a bust....but it seems like I can read about this stuff all day, but until I put my hands on, it really isn't driven home...

we'll see if I can join the superstock ranks....I love the forum idea/concept

Let me make something very clear. You ARE a member of the SuperStock Forum just by building a rifle and posting it here. There is no "qualifying" by shooting in one of the games!!

The games are to have fun with, a challenge for you and your rifle and a goal to set. They do NOT decide if you belong in SuperStock or not.

You want to be a member here? Grab a rifle (semi auto sporter) and start hacking away, polishing this or that and having fun with a fine bunch of people. That is all it takes.

Even if you have no intention of building a SuperStock Rifle EVERYONE is invited to post here. This is no clique or exclusive club. This is just some good people learning and sharing what it takes to build a nice sporter and share in some leg pulling and tall tales along the way.:bthumb:

 

Good news is the gun separated from the bedding without damage....Bad news is that it came out nothing like I intended....

Thinking this through...there are several ways I should have done this...

 

Good thing about bedding is it grinds right out. I'm starting to like your trouble shooting skills.

Try it the way it is, keep good notes, if you don't like what you have then maybe grind out what spilled over and try that.

Small mistake, easy fix. No worries. :bthumb: To me some of the fun with these little rifles is the tinkering it takes to get them shooting good.

Enjoy your photos, keep em' comming.

 

I have been following your threads on this build. Very impressed with your skills. :bthumb:

 

Do not let it get you do down. Surprisingly some very good things sometimes come from things that were not quite what we planned.

For instance the position of the barrel support described in my bedding tutorial was a happy accident. I mean I WAS experimenting with pressure point placement but where it ended up was a complete surprise to me. Most everyone including me have always placed the pressure pad at the front or back of the barrel channel. Neither was working as well as I hoped so out of desperation I tried something I had never seen done.

Twenty minutes later the rifle was into Ricochet's 13 mm Funshoot shooting an ammo it never really liked. Then it shot even better with SK STD + like it was was planned to.

Not exactly a mistake but a total surprise. Now 4 rifles later that spot is still working for me and several other members here. I learned that even if things are not what you planned test it anyway........you never know what you may have stumbled on to.:bthumb:

 

My mistake was that up until now, I have been working painstakingly slow and cautious...but...

I was thinking about that cooking student that forgot to place baking powder in his chocolate cake....and now we have brownies :bthumb:

Now to see if we have something edible:

Here is where I think the problem lies with my method:
By not test fitting the barrel with the putty in place, cutting away the excess, and probably relieving the magazine to barrel ledge a little more, I ended up with the putty being pushed out of place like this:

resulting in the mess that looks like this (look at how far down, despite my putty dams that the bedding made it to....it is a wonder that I got this thing apart):

So, when life hands you lemons (I cleaned and squared it up a bit):

I now have a bedded tube magazine in multiple places....I intend on shooting it to see what the resulting accuracy is

 

You could always sand away some of the bedding if you don't like the results. You know... Just enough that certain parts don't touch the barrel. Atleast you have it in there. Now you can see if it works, or sand away and find out where bedding is best. Very cool. Thanks for posting all the pics.

 

Okay...here is where I am at so far...I need to tweak my trigger more....I brought the weight down from 8 pounds to probably 1/2 that....but for this kind of shooting...my plan is to eliminate some of the creep, and reduce the pull even further....

....so my groups had opened up to almost 3/4 of an inch C-T-C after relieving the pressure off my magazine tube....

...then I bed the magazine tube, and I ran to the range today with some CCI SV that my rifle was showing preference for and got some of the following 5 shot/25 yard groups in an informal testing session...

Please note: the dime is not covering any fliers, LOL.... But, I did clean the barrel for the first time since I can remember and it took it awhile to settle into these last few groups...

just to see how ole Bertha is doing: (hot as heck...and 10 mph wind left to right (hourly weather: http://www.weather.com/weather/hourbyhour/graph/34292) ....

This is why I need to work on my trigger some more:

Probably the best group of the day:

So Ms. Bertha lookin a little better in her new dress :bthumb:

I'm gonna do some more ammo testing since the UPS man just came:

Really nice packaging and handling:

Some ammo I would like to try below....I have tried probably about 300 (edit: 3 boxes makes 150 rounds) rounds so far of Wolf MT...and the CCI SV still seems to shoot better....I always have Wolf on hand cause it's my Savage's favorite...I'm wondering if it has to do with the micro-groove?

 

So now the plan of attack is:

1. more ammo testing in better conditions
2. trigger is still too heavy for this type of application.. rework the sear eliminate creep
3. head space/firing pin protrusion
4. pressure pad..
5. 11 degree crown

Here are the numbers that I have received from RFC (note to self):

Head space for .22, .0430-.0425 with a firing pin protrusion of .035
and everything square....

 

So I did a search for head space and read virtually everything I could...talking about a hot topic....I keep my gun pointed down range at all times :bthumb:

Although I was a bit reluctant, after viewing what came from the factory...tool marks, not square....I realized that my bolt needed some help.

So, I pulled out the micrometer, stones, files, wet/dry and went to town. My initial measurement was .0490 with a goal of .0435 (a little conservative) to allow for the inaccuracy of my tools...and what a learning experience it is trying to do this with hand tools and patience...that .0055 ended up taking real patience....

Here I put rubber bands around the extractors so that when I punched the pins the extractors didn't go flying across the room

Initially I put my bolt in the vice to take measurements, but later I found that if I extended the micrometer past the measurement and then pushed in until square I got better more consistent measurements....

you can almost see in this photo how rough the end of my bolt looks:

I started with 220 wet/dry on a sharpening stone, then went down to 100, then down to 60 and 20 minutes later this is what I have from .049:

So I chalked up a file and layed it flat on the table. Then when I was close .045 I went to the diamond sharpening stone. Even though the coursest I have is fine....those diamonds made pretty quick work of the last little bit:

With each pass I would turn the bolt to compensate for any uneven hand pressure I might have.....

Another view of the tooling marks, and you can see how the bolt isn't square with part shiney and part still rough...

Here it is at .0435:

Flat as a pancake and shiney...A little conservative (due to not having depth gauges and the quality of my micrometer) but better than .0490 :bthumb:

 

It's been a while... have you made it to the range with the bolt headspaced? Did the groups tighten up?

 

Thanks for asking but not yet.....hoping to get out there this weekend (if the hurricane leaves us intact ....looks like it will be a miss though)

....I've now got more parts and stocks accumulated from reading RFC and finding deals, that I can almost build another gun...:bthumb:

We have a couple of guys working on their Marlins (up in the semi-auto forum) as well trying to figure out different methods to accurize.

Manson Reamers now offers a $115.00, 11 degree re-crowning kit for Military rifles that you can choose the .22 caliber versions....I contacted them and it seems perfect for these type applications (hooks up to a cordless screwdriver)...

So, once I get out there and get another baseline on my accuracy...I'd like to go ahead and re-crown, shoot it, and get another feel for where I'm at

 

Todays range trip was a fiasco....I shot almost a brick of ammo...

The new headspace of my bolt operated just fine... I found no problems and the gun functioned flawlessly. But, complete frustration as to accuracy.

I went to the range with rubber shims. I tried them every where. Under the barrel in different places, under the mag tube, on the sides of the mag tube, between the mag tube and the barrel.....any placement of the rubber shims created open groups. Some were immediately bad...like 3 inch groups at 25 yards.....so the rubber shims are a no go.....

Then after the shims, I ground out the magazine channel bedding... I tried 25 yards with nothing but the normal bedding and pillars. I'm now back to probably 1/2 inch groups at 25 yards.

Got a bit frustrated, pulled out the old bolt action rifle and went to town to verify it wasn't me.....

But...I've got a plan.....I am going to try bedding up the barrel channel some more..(simlilar to 17ghogkiller)....it just feels like that long pencil thin barrel is really getting some movement going and I think a little more support will help....if that doesn't work...then it is all coming out :bthumb:

 

I'm at it again. I don't know if it is all that interesting watching a rookie go to town...but, here it is anyway.....

I felt like 17ghogkiller had gotten good results with his bedding job. So, I decided to go further up the barrel channel. I also found some informaton on how Marlin had done pretty extensive testing on the magazine tube guns.

I found that the balance of the gun is just in front of the scope. Therefore, I chose that as an ending point and am adding to the bedding that is already in the barrel channel:

Before:

Unfortunately I've taken the scope off so many times on this project, I'm now leaving it on so that I don't bugger the screws any more. This mount seems to have an odd fitting allen wrench hole that standard or metric doesn't seem to fit it well (of any of the 1/2 dozen wrenches that I've tried )
During:

A couple of things I've found out with all this bedding that I have been doing. Questions that I've always had.

For example: I've heard of pulling the action out before the curing time and trimming with an exacto knife. I've never wanted to try it on my expensive guns, but have tried it on this one. I felt the left over bedding on the plate, once it sets up pretty hard, I pulled the action and trimmed it, and then replaced the action to finish curing. I don't like doing it this way, but I at least I found out that it doesn't seem like much of an issue.

I won't being doing it this time though :bthumb:

I'll post a photo of the finished bedding with targets as well to see how it is working....