If it were me, I would talk to a known benchrest rifle builder and follow his recommendations. Each one will have his recipe for success and will usually back up their work ....

But if I were to build a brand new top of the line BR rifle it would probably start with a Turbo action, Bartlein barrel, and then the tough decisions begin- trigger, chassis or bag rider, scope and mounts, etc....

 

If it were me, I would talk to a known benchrest rifle builder and follow his recommendations. Each one will have his recipe for success and will usually back up their work ....

But if I were to build a brand new top of the line BR rifle it would probably start with a Turbo action, Bartlein barrel, and then the tough decisions begin- trigger, chassis or bag rider, scope and mounts, etc....

Thanks Bob...what makes you go with the Turbo as opposed to a Vudoo?

I would want a bag rider...mcmillan edge stock, B&A trigger and I have a couple of Marsh Scopes. Trying to determine really between the Vudoo or Turbo.

Gene

 

Having seen many lists of equipment used by top performers of competitors like The Professional Shooting League there is a good split between the Stiller 2500x and the Turbo actions but the 2500x is the most out of the 60 listed in their recent list. When it comes to barrels the Shilen is by far the most popular.

 

Take a look at the rimfire section on BenchrestCentral.com for what is being used, and what is winning matches.
Edit: Look also to the classified as a lot of shooters end up selling good rifles so as to fund their next purchase, as most of us chase after our hopes and dreams.

 

From your post it sounds like you have a soft spot for Vudoo and would be really happy if someone gave them a bigs thumbs up. They've just started with their dedicated BR action and so far it hasn't proven itself in the competitive BR arena and hasn't made any kind of splash. It might get there but right now the track record isn't there.

Between Turbo and 2500X the Turbo has a long and winning record but it has an extremely poor record of product availability and broken promises on product delivery. I don't shoot a 2500X but I know from experience that gunsmiths love the 2500X because it needs so little work. Jerry Stiller backs his product 100% and is quite available. His promises seem to actually mean something.

So...

If you want an available product that that requires very little work and wins go for the 2500X.

If you want a proven winner that you might have to wait for many months (some wait for years) and requires more work for a gunsmith go for the Turbo.

If you love the Vudoo name and are willing to roll the dice for what it might do in yhe BR game in the future go for the Vudoo.

 

From your post it sounds like you have a soft spot for Vudoo and would be really happy if someone gave them a bigs thumbs up. They've just started with their dedicated BR action and so far it hasn't proven itself in the competitive BR arena and hasn't made any kind of splash. It might get there but right now the track record isn't there.

Between Turbo and 2500X the Turbo has a long and winning record but it has an extremely poor record of product availability and broken promises on product delivery. I don't shoot a 2500X but I know from experience that gunsmiths love the 2500X because it needs so little work. Jerry Stiller backs his product 100% and is quite available. His promises seem to actually mean something.

So...

If you want an available product that that requires very little work and wins go for the 2500X.

If you want a proven winner that you might have to wait for many months (some wait for years) and requires more work for a gunsmith go for the Turbo.

If you love the Vudoo name and are willing to roll the dice for what it might do in yhe BR game in the future go for the Vudoo.

Thanks Ralph,
No, the Vudoo really isn't a soft spot for me at all...I just asked between the 2 that I mentioned, which one anyone would prefer and WHY...important point being WHY. I had thought that Jerry was out of the business, so that is why I didn't mention his action...but it seems he may be only out of the centerfire business and not rimfire. Glad you pointed out the potential for Turbo to have "issues" when it comes to customer service.
I will have to look at the 2500X...sounds like it is "proven". Thanks for your input...much appreciated.

Gene

 

From what I have seen in the Voodoo rifles, I am not impressed. Two guys I shoot with bought their rifles and both had to send them back to Voodoo. Neither one shoots that great. I'm now shooting a 2500X with a Shilen barrel. Just got it from a friend. It shoots much better than I do, LOL.

 

Thanks, this is good to know.

Gene

 

Winchester 52’s while not modern have been skooling folks for nearly 100 years. Turbo and the others owe it a big debt.

 

Both are highly refined actions derived from different designs. The Turbo is a 52-like design with lugs locked in the horizontal position, while the Stiller uses a Rem 40X-like design with lugs locked in the vertical position. Both can be great and both can have issues, depending upon how the gunsmith sets them up. Some of the differences involve how each design settles, or relaxes, when locking and when firing, and how those differences impact ignition and consistency shot to shot. Some Turbos might require more attention, depending upon when they were built, but I’ve owned two Turbos, both very early ones, that had no issues whatsoever, so I tend to favor them. Don’t know about now, but I think the Stiller, as mentioned, probably is more consistent from action to action, but even the Stiller company has recently changed hands, so who knows moving forward.

 

Don’t know about now, but I think the Stiller, as mentioned, probably is more consistent from action to action, but even the Stiller company has recently changed hands, so who knows moving forward.

Not true. Jerry kept the part of his company responsible for 22BR actions. No change of ownership that affects 22 Benchrest actions (unless that has changed in the very recent past)

 

My google skills must be failing...Stiller's website does not list the 2500X...just the 2500XR. I would prefer the single shot action but it is not shown on their web site. Even Killoughs does not show it...they show a Trident action but no 2500X. The only thing that comes up is the XR(repeater) and XS(sporter) and it's almost as if another entity has taken them over...Holeshot Arms? Anyway...unfortunately I can't seem to find anything on a 2500X single shot action.

Gene

 

My google skills must be failing...Stiller's website does not list the 2500X...just the 2500XR. I would prefer the single shot action but it is not shown on their web site. Even Killoughs does not show it...they show a Trident action but no 2500X. The only thing that comes up is the XR(repeater) and XS(sporter) and it's almost as if another entity has taken them over...Holeshot Arms? Anyway...unfortunately I can't seem to find anything on a 2500X single shot action.

Gene

Gene,
Jerry Stiller is the owner of Holeshot Arms. The 2500X actions are still being made, but out of stock as of now. A new batch should be release in about 60 days. The Trident action is the same as the 2500X except it is 3 lugs versus 2 lugs in the 2500X.
Evelio.

 

I will admit right up front I was trying like crazy to remember the Stiller 2500X action in my reply but had a senior moment and couldn't come up with it. I know several guys who have had BR rifles built on 2500x actions and are extremely happy with them. IMO, if you find a good BR gunsmith I would still go with his recommendations between the Turbo and the 2500X, barrel manufacturer, and other items you will need to be competitive. I know that supply issues can be a problem, especially these days, but some reputable smiths have the foresight to keep a few of these actions in stock if you can find them... I wouldn't have the slightest idea who, though...

 

This post is shot full of inaccurate information. If you want to know ANYTHING ABOUT 22BR go to a match and get it straight. Plenty of opportunity in Indiana, I'm shooting tomorrow in Indy. Other clubs spread about the state also. Check out the ARA site for schedules and locations.

 

This!

 

Well I'm glad that my reference to the list of equipment from The professional Shooting League was considered of some value and not MISINFORMATION .

The suggestion to go to matches to see what people are shooting is also valuable too and not misinformation although is an opinion. .

I am a knock about bench rest shooter but not some one who is able to tinker with my equipment much [ not too technically any way ] so I tried to use the best components and gunsmith I could.

It has worked out very well but having followed in the tracks of a couple of others regarding their build who were at the top of the class accuracy wise I was confident that I would have great accuracy and performance .

I had been shooting 2 high end factory rifles over the last 4 years of my 15 years bench resting and been very competitive but lacking that last little bit of accuracy which gave you the win.
I was hoping that the new build would prove that it wasn't me that lacked the skill to win.

My build was made up of the following components.
2500X Action
Lilja Barrel
Flavio Trigger
Harrells tuner

I have shot personal bests and been winning at a State level and its been the rifle that's doing the business .

My other equipment since the build hasn't changed which consists of a March Scope, Randolph front rest and a cracking batch of Midas + ammunition.

 

Very good info...thanks, I appreciate it.

Gene

 

I've owned and shot both the Turbo and Stiller/Holeshot 2500X. From my forum name it should be no surprise which one I prefer. My Turbos were the original Flash Ebert Turbos and my 2500X was an early production model. Both are fine actions but I had better ignition/ longer firing pin spring life from the Stiller. The 2500X is soooo smooth and they are ready to go right out of the box. For a barrel, it's hard to beat the Shilen Ratchet.850" barrels. I've owned and shot most of the popular rimfire barrel makers (Lilja, Shilen, Broughton, Rock Creek, Benchmark, Muller Works) and if I was to have a new build I would first start with a Shilen. The thing to keep in mind with barrels is that you pay your money and you take your chances. Even from the same maker, some will be better than others. But, IMO, the Shilen will give your best chance at getting a real good one. I'd put them in a McMillan Straightline Edge stock. (See Killough Shooting Sports.)

 

Thanks for your input...great information. I am starting to get convinced that the 2500X is the way to go and it also seems overwhelmingly that the Shilen bbl is the way to go. Surprisingly I haven't heard much about the Shilen rimfire barrels in my neck of the woods...seems like Lilja and Benchmark are most often referred around here. I had already decided that if I do this it would be the McMillan Straightline Edge from Killough. Thanks again.

Gene

 

Okay Ganderson,
Here's the bottom line. Much respect to Ralph Spoilsport and Vlnbyr, I know and have shot with both of them. They are both very good at what they do.

Stiller 2500X/2500XS (Holeshot Arms) has been my favorite action. I currently have 6 of them. I have a small amount of pedigree in both ARA Unlimited and IR50/50 3-gun.

In addition to the above, I am also having a Turbo V3 action being built as of now. Now, the Turbo action IMO, and don't anyone flame me on this comment unless you are absolutely sure you know what you're talking about and if you you disagree, you don't know what you're talking about, needs a specific smith to accurately massage the action to it's fullest. There are very few of these smiths in the country right now......period.

A Stiller (Holeshot) action is most likely used right out of the box with no additional work needed by the smith. They have a very good/excellent track record, hence my owning so many of them, and will lower smithing costs on a new build by almost all smiths. Jerry Stiller is also a great guy that will actually answer his phone and respond to customers needed help/advise about his products, actions or other wise. In general, Holeshot actions are more readily available than Turbo actions as well.

If I were a first time RFBR high end buyer wanting to build a new rifle, I would recommend a Holeshot Arms action with no reservations what so ever. I would also recommend a Muller Works barrel to go on that build. Flavio Fare' or BixnAndy trigger, slicked up Jewell as the third choice. JMO based on experience. I would not recommend a Vudoo for several reasons. Only one has done anything special, and lots of others have done nothing and are having issues. Everyone of the Vudoo 'fan boys' talk about their wonderful customer service, their success in the repeater/PRS-NRL market, but only one has seen top flight performance in RFBR, and it was a private built rifle from just an action.

I would also explore the used market for a rifle. There are many rifles that come for sale in both action variations (Holeshot and Turbo) in the used market, Some have pedigree, some don't. Some that don't, are rifles that the owner didn't put the time in to testing and tweaking that are true diamonds in the ruff. Also folks sell rifles when they have too many and want to make room for something else. I will be falling into the last category very soon. Doesn't mean the rifle is junk. No guarantees in this game, either used or new.

Scott

 

Okay Ganderson,
Here's the bottom line. Much respect to Ralph Spoilsport and Vlnbyr, I know and have shot with both of them. They are both very good at what they do.

Stiller 2500X/2500XS (Holeshot Arms) has been my favorite action. I currently have 6 of them. I have a small amount of pedigree in both ARA Unlimited and IR50/50 3-gun.

In addition to the above, I am also having a Turbo V3 action being built as of now. Now, the Turbo action IMO, and don't anyone flame me on this comment unless you are absolutely sure you know what you're talking about and if you you disagree, you don't know what you're talking about, needs a specific smith to accurately massage the action to it's fullest. There are very few of these smiths in the country right now......period.

A Stiller (Holeshot) action is most likely used right out of the box with no additional work needed by the smith. They have a very good/excellent track record, hence my owning so many of them, and will lower smithing costs on a new build by almost all smiths. Jerry Stiller is also a great guy that will actually answer his phone and respond to customers needed help/advise about his products, actions or other wise. In general, Holeshot actions are more readily available than Turbo actions as well.

If I were a first time RFBR high end buyer wanting to build a new rifle, I would recommend a Holeshot Arms action with no reservations what so ever. I would also recommend a Muller Works barrel to go on that build. Flavio Fare' or BixnAndy trigger, slicked up Jewell as the third choice. JMO based on experience. I would not recommend a Vudoo for several reasons. Only one has done anything special, and lots of others have done nothing and are having issues. Everyone of the Vudoo 'fan boys' talk about their wonderful customer service, their success in the repeater/PRS-NRL market, but only one has seen top flight performance in RFBR, and it was a private built rifle from just an action.

I would also explore the used market for a rifle. There are many rifles that come for sale in both action variations (Holeshot and Turbo) in the used market, Some have pedigree, some don't. Some that don't, are rifles that the owner didn't put the time in to testing and tweaking that are true diamonds in the ruff. Also folks sell rifles when they have too many and want to make room for something else. I will be falling into the last category very soon. Doesn't mean the rifle is junk. No guarantees in this game, either used or new.

Scott

Thank you very much for the in depth information you have provided. I have pretty much ruled out the Vudoo, so it boils down to the Turbo or 2500x. I find it very interesting that you say the Turbo needs a little something done to it by a gunsmith that knows that action to get it up to top performance level...I think someone else made a reference to this same thing. I agree that it would be beneficial to just get a 2500X and not have to worry about the added gunsmith costs for the Turbo. I have a couple of Muller Works centerfire barrels that have performed nicely, so am familiar with them. Currently use the Bix n Andy's in my PPC's and really like them.
I have looked some for something used but haven't seen anything listed but may not be hitting some of the right web sites...mainly just this site and BR Central.
Scott, thanks again for the information...exactly the kind of response/feedback I was looking for.

I guess this begs another question...LOL...what is everyone's consensus on a tuner? Surprised it hasn't been mentioned.

If I decide to get into this then I am thinking my equipment will look like this:
2500X Action
McMillan straightline stock
B&A trigger
Barrel - still undecided(my smith likes Benchmark but will put whatever I want on)
Tuner - ?
Scope - March or Leupold BR

 

I am placing my order this month for Full blown rimfire Benchrest rifle with Anthony DiOrio Mfg. Company
Using his Turbo V3 (3lug) Action single shot, right side port ejection, he uses Shilen match barrels and Bix’ N Andy Match trigger and a Chacon Custom Benchrest stock
Will be mounting a Swarovski 6-24X50 Target scope
6 months waiting list

 

I am placing my order this month for Full blown rimfire Benchrest rifle with Anthony DiOrio Mfg. Company
Using his Turbo V3 (3lug) Action single shot, right side port ejection, he uses Shilen match barrels and Bix’ N Andy Match trigger and a Chacon Custom Benchrest stock
Will be mounting a Swarovski 6-24X50 Target scope
6 months waiting list

So, did you get your rifle yet?

 

Serious question here and only because I'm curious- I'm not planning on building a benchrest rifle at this time...

Now, at one time the standard for Benchrest was presumably either an Anschutz or a Winchester 52, then the Rem 40X came on the scene . Pretty soon guys were doing all kinds of things to these rifles to make them more and more competitive until someone got the idea to build a completely new action based on the 40X but correcting the flaws as they saw them. I'm not sure who was the first one to do this, but the Stiller 2500X seems to be an excellent example of this- along with the RimX and the Vudoo actions . The Turbo took a slightly different route but ended up with a completely new action which seems to have had some success in the BR games.

I know a few BR shooters and they tend to have laser vision on eliminating every minor issue that may or may not enhance their scores by even a little bit. In this pursuit they can become somewhat stubborn in the pursuit of this and get tunnel vision. And once a few particular actions start to show promise everybody gravitates to that and has a hard time seeing the horizon for the next great thing- but I could be wrong, of course. Definitely not trying to denigrate anyone who has put in the time and effort to achieve excellence in this field but here is my question- if the same effort and focus was to be put on ,say, the Vudoo or RimX actions as examples, do you think the results may be equal in the long run? Or are they just inferior actions to begin with and not worth the effort?

What if a few people were to start showing up on the boards on a regular basis with these new actions, do you think there would be a paradigm shift or????? Just for discussion, of course and not to start any kind of fire here ....

 

Random thoughts...1. The Stiller Holeshot 2500X action is like the Vudoo and RimX in the same way an apple is like an orange because they both grow on a tree.
2. Benchrest shooters are as dumb as a box of rocks, using turbos and 2500X actions when they could be using Vudoo's and RimX.
3. If you want to know ANYTHING about the 22lr BR sport go to a match. Jerry Stiller will be at the Triple Crown in Bristol VA the end of this month, talk to him in person.
4. Posting in RFC does NOT make you a published author.
5. If you want to swim a mile in the river you will do better going downstream with the flow than you will swimming upstream against the current.

 

Random thoughts...1. The Stiller Holeshot 2500X action is like the Vudoo and RimX in the same way an apple is like an orange because they both grow on a tree.
2. Benchrest shooters are as dumb as a box of rocks, using turbos and 2500X actions when they could be using Vudoo's and RimX.
3. If you want to know ANYTHING about the 22lr BR sport go to a match. Jerry Stiller will be at the Triple Crown in Bristol VA the end of this month, talk to him in person.
4. Posting in RFC does NOT make you a published author.
5. If you want to swim a mile in the river you will do better going downstream with the flow than you will swimming upstream against the current.

All that typing and you didn't answer a single question except that you are pretty good at snarky answers and you apparently look down on anyone who hasn't earned your elevated status as a "benchrest master".... when a simple response pointing out the shortcomings of the mentioned actions would have sufficed.
I have been to benchrest matches and I find the participants who I have talked to seem to break down into two camps- the guys who love to talk about their equipment and welcome new shooters with great information and advice- and those guys who don't want to be bothered and would prefer to be addressed as "sir".... I think it is pretty clear which camp you fit into.

I hope the OP benefits from the info he has received here...

 

Posters here, including gunsmiths and currently active BR shooters, have provided the OP information he requested regarding BR actions commonly used, including historical background, locking designs — horizontal, vertical, three lugs — firing pins around the spring, springs around the firing pin, barrel tenons, closing cams, ignition, mainspring longevity, and their own personal experience and views. But somehow, none of this is valid information because some insist attending a match is the only possible way to acquire wisdom, as if one’s mere presence there will result in true knowledge from on high distilling from heaven and enlightening his mind. He will see shooters there with all manner of actions and probably receive sage advice from some, just like here. He will solicit opinions about barrel brands, stocks, and triggers there, and get opinions similar to those here. Yes, he could talk with Jerry Stiller there, or he could just call him on the phone and talk.
I do agree, merely posting here does not make any of us a published author, whether the comments offer valid information or simply criticize posters. Do all the shooters at a match publish articles? Do any of them? Much of the information provided here originated from Bill Calfee…I’m pretty sure he is a published author, yet even he is often similarly disparaged.
RFC used to be a nice place to discuss our hobbies freely.

 

ARA...PSL...IR/50 are precision sports. If you ask a precision question you will get a precision answer. If you ask a Wikipedia question you will get a Wikipedia answer. If you check around you will find that I have a solid reputation for helping anyone and everyone in benchrest. Just not a lot of patience for tire kickers.

 

So me asking a very pointed question makes me a tire kicker...interesting. So you are beyond answering my question then...I get it. Thanks

Gene

 

So, they can't be bothered with posting here with real information for people like the OP with genuine interest, but they have time to call everyone else posting here a know-nothing fool?

Just fill in the blanks:

"I have participated in competitive rimfire benchrest matches for __ years. I have used __ action (s). I stopped using ___ action (s) because _. I now use __ action because __."

Feel free to include as much precision as you feel we mere mortals could possibly comprehend and put the rest in your new book.

 

If you know Mark and will be using him then what is the point of this entire post. I shoot a Penrod build and it is as good a rifle as there is anywhere in the country. He knows what he is doing and doesn't need input from anybody.

 

I'm really sorry that I bothered you with my original post. Hopefully it didn't ruin your weekend. I am new here and was asking a question.
I would like to offer a mutual suggestion...any future posts by me, please ignore them and I will kindly not get involved in any of your posts either since I don't measure up to your standards.

Regards,
Gene

 

OK...Just to be sure I went back to the beginning...the OP #1. From the get go it looked to me that this wasn't as much about information as it was a fishing expedition about validation of what someone had heard. Centerfire BR shooters typically don't do well in rimfire BR. There are reasons for that.

 

POST #1 for those that don't want to go back to the beginning:
"If you were to build a new Benchrest rimfire rifle, what modern bolt action would you go with and why? The Turbo, Vudoo or any others that might be in the mix? Might even expand on what barrel you would use...Bartlein, Benchmark, other? Thanks
Gene"


I see your reading comprehension skills suck...while fishing is another pastime of mine it certainly is becoming harder to want to go because of all the Trolls.(sorry but John enlightened me to not be bashful with you guys)

Random thoughts: Being an elite Rimfire BR shooter
1) To be a rimfire BR shooter you MUST tell all centerfire BR shooters that they are not going to do well in the rimfire game for reasons only known to you. (this is done to promote the sport)
2) Don't allow beginners to post threads/questions on a DISCUSSION forum - if they do, denigrate their post and for god's sake don't answer their questions!
3) Be snarky with all your replies...don't let up either! (This will entice them to want to participate in the sport)
4) If you don't have anything meaningful to add to a post, be a pr!ck and go ahead and post some snarky stuff anyway (again, this will only add to the enticement to join the sport)
5) Keep track of how many posts a thread generates...especially when your posts have generated nothing useful...this is very important (for reasons unknown)
6) Don't allow people to have a "discussion" on a "discussion" forum...that's not what it's for!
7) Above all else, have a rude and condescending attitude towards others that are new and have a lot of questions about the sport...after all, you were never a beginner...you were born a 22BR shooter and never had to ask any lowly questions.

Now, get out there and promote the sport for new shooters and be sure to run their questions into the ground!

 

I have after many year on forums and other social media that people that don't add to my experience get blocked. No apologies or explanations needed either. If they add no value then they get blocked, or ignored in this case.

 

Waaaay off topic reply alert!
I used to shoot a lot of Trap. They all complained about the ejection of the 1100 or the lower report of the 7/8 oz loads I used in my Model 12, and basically treated me like dirt.

Then I just wiped the field with them for spite and switched to skeet shooting.

Early on in my skeet career, In the middle of a Skeet tournament shooting with AAA shooters, one asked the ref (I was really struggling) "Can I give him (me) a pointer or 2?" We were in the middle of a round in a tournement!

He did give me some great tips and I shot my first 25 straight, next day a 50 straight and the next week a 75 straight. Point is he wanted me to shoot better for no other reason than he was a great person.

 

This was also my experience at centerfire benchrest when I started in it. I didn't last long as my family commitments and business kept me too busy to compete seriously and improve my skills. But I never forgot the helpful attitude of most of the guys on the line and when I went later and watched matches and also rimfire silhouette when I tried it. I admire guys who have the time, patience, and skills to acquire the skills it takes to compete at the highest levels of any sport- especially one as precise as benchrest...

 

I would say any good rimfire will work if it has a great barrel installed right. The most important thing is getting the right lot of ammo to work, that is the pricey part.... so if you have a stiller and the best barrel you think but till you get the right lot of ammo you will never know The next biggest thing is learning to shoot in the wind. I went to Lapua's test site in Ohio with Annie and a Bench mark barrel and tested 17 lots of Lapua Center X and Midas and at 50 meters the best lot was 11.02....... so I have a good amount to last me. Maybe no match for a Stiller but you need the ammo to make it work and that is where the big bucks are. If it were I would be looking a gun that was built and for sale. Get on Stillers site and look at the classified, there are any number of gun by great builders for sale.... Jim

 

Thanks Jim. I have been looking at the ammo side of it and it is really interesting about the test centers...another member PM'd me and shared his experiences with taking his rifles to one of Lapua's facilities and he found it to be beneficial. And yes, everyone that I have talked to advised that once you find the ammo/lot that it likes...buy all you can afford. I will check Stiller's site classifieds and see what is out there...I have no problem buying something used as long as it has good components.
The wind for sure is another big equation...

Thanks,
Gene