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Rimfire Chrono - Long Term Project

40K views 186 replies 46 participants last post by  Littledaddy  
#1 · (Edited)
In an attempt to find the ammunition that will work best for a particular application in my particular guns, I've decided to acquire as many makes and models of .22 rimfire ammunition as practical and test it. This will be a long-term project and I'll update this thread periodically as more data is acquired.

One portion of the testing is chronographing each make and model. The chrono procedure I use is the same as my procedure for developing my USPSA / IPSC loads. Barrel will be clean prior to each test. 30 rounds will be passed through the screens. Distance of the start screen will be 10 feet from the muzzle. All shooting will be done from a rest. Chronograph was a CED M2 mounted in a coffin with IR lighting. As of May 2020 the chrono is a LabRadar. Testing with known loads revealed that the data from the optical unit and the radar unit can be considered identical.

The subject of Standard Deviation often generates discussion. To make SD a useful and accurate measure of ammunition performance you have to test enough rounds to make the results statistically meaningful. The big mistake many people make is only testing 5 or 10 rounds and calling it good. It's not. Those who know way more than I do about statistical analysis say that 30 is a magic number. Any less and you don't have enough data to work with and any more you approach a point of diminishing return. To read more about statistical analysis in chrono testing, go to www.brianenos.com/forums and go to this thread. Now that you have a SD, what do you do with it? A SD of 5 or less in factory ammunition is probably a mistake. From 6 to 12 is outstanding. Truly the best of mass-produced ammunition. From 13 to 20 is very good. 21 to 30 starts to get to the average, nothing special range. 31 to 39 is not that great. Shoot it if you have to. 40 and over will be discarded outright. I wouldn't use it if you gave it to me. This seems to hold true with any ammunition, centerfire or rimfire, low to very high velocities. What a low SD on a particular lot of ammunition tells you is its consistency. Shot to shot, the velocity will vary little from the mean. To get good accuracy, one part of the equation is consistent ammunition.

Extreme Spread is to me a somewhat less useful measure of ammunition performance. For example, a test batch that goes an average of 700 FPS with an ES of 10 is not the same as another batch going 1400 FPS with an ES of 10. ES is nice to know but your SD will tell the tale. Let's throw this 'what if' at you. You have Brand A ammunition and Brand B ammunition, both are advertised as going 1000 FPS. Brand A goes across the chrono between 995 FPS and 1005 FPS fairly evenly spread out with a couple at 1005, another couple at 995, etc., with a third of the test batch going 1000 FPS. ES is 10 and the SD is 3.5. Good stuff huh? You try Brand B. 29 rounds goes exactly 1000 FPS. The last goes 990 FPS. ES is 10 and the SD is 1.8. Same ES as Brand A but Brand B has a lower SD. I'd use Brand B as being more consistent.

One thing I won't tell you is how accurate one ammunition is from another. As anyone who plays with rimfires know, each arm is a law onto itself. What works in mine may not work in yours. What works at 50 feet may not work at 50 yards. The only way you can find out is go to the range and punch holes in paper. This chrono testing is to separate the wheat from the chaff in my guns.

The guns used.
Ruger 10/22 with the following setup.
* Built in 2008 with a very rough guess of 5,000 rounds through it.
* Receiver from a Ruger 10/22RB. Modified by chamfering rear of bolt and headspacing. Work done by CPC Engineering.
* Bolt mating surfaces were polished.
* Volquartsen bolt buffer.
* Stamp marks from firing pin removed and mating surfaces polished.
* Trigger job performed by Clark Custom.
* Adams and Bennet 18" stainless bull barrel.
* Fajen thumbhole sporter stock.
* Mueller APV 4.5-14Ă—40 AO scope on Weaver TO-9 base with Leupold rings.

CZ-452 American with the following setup.
* Stone stock with at least 5,000 rounds through it.
* Mueller APV 4.5-14Ă—40 AO scope with Warne 7.3 rings.
* 22.5" barrel.

Ruger MKII with the following setup.
* Well used with approximately 20,000 rounds through it.
* 6 7/8" barrel and receiver stock.
* Volquartsen accuracy kit.
* Volquartsen extractor.
* OKO red dot optical sight.
* Either Volquartsen or Hogue grips depending on the game I'm playing at the time.

Taurus 94 with the following setup.
* Approximately 1500 rounds though it.
* Stock as it came from the factory.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Ruger 10/22 and CZ452 Chrono Results

Code:
Ruger 10/22 Chrono Test
					Advertised
MFG		Model			Vel	Mean Vel  ES	SD	Date Shot

Aguila		High Velocity HP	1250	1290	  86.2	20.6	08-2005
		High Velocity SP	1250	1268	  70.3	13.6	09-2005
		Pistol Match		 925	1040	  83.0	18.6	05-2020
		Rifle Match		1080	1042	  74.0	17.4	05-2020
		Standard Velocity	1135	1088	  60.3	12.8	09-2005
		Subsonic HP		1015	1008	  56.0	12.9	06-2020
		Subsonic SP		1015	1018	 101.1	19.6	07-2006
		Target			1080	1033	  66.0	18.2	05-2020


Armscor		High Velocity HP	1260	1284	 101.0	25.0	09-2015
		Standard Velocity	1135	1133	  88.0	20.8	09-2015

CCI		AR Tactical		1200	1208	  50.0	13.0	09-2015
		Blazer			1255	1263      68.5  17.5	08-2005
		Clean Subsonic		1070	1040	  77.0	17.0	06-2020
		Green Tag		1070	1043	  60.1	13.2	02-2006
		Mini-Mag HP		1280	1278	  75.1	17.5	04-2006
		Mini-Mag SP		1255	1272	  63.7	14.9	02-2006
		Pistol Match		1070	1039	  64.9	14.5	04-2006
		SGB			1280	1202	  86.4	16.6	02-2006
		Select			1200	1159	  75.3	19.6	04-2006
		Standard Velocity	1070	1021	  64.5	12.2	02-2006
		Subsonic		1050	1079	  67.1	12.6	02-2006

CI		High Velocity		1250	1225	 111.0	25.4	06-2016
		Target			1050	1064	 121.0	24.5	01-2018

Eley		Action			1090	1062	  26.0	 7.3	05-2020
		Club			1085	1053	  42.0	12.0	06-2009
		Contact			1090	1064	  53.0	11.3	09-2015
		Edge			1085	1077	  39.0	 8.7	09-2015
		Force			1250	1172	 148.0	23.3	09-2015
		High Velocity HP	1250	1120	  89.0	20.5	11-2017
		Subsonic HP		1040	1007	  39.1	10.2	09-2015
		Target			1085	1054	  40.0	10.5	09-2015

Federal		American Eagle HP	1280	1222	  95.7	22.3	10-2006
		American Eagle SP	1260	1225	  74.8	19.2	07-2006
		AutoMatch AM22		1200	1217	  88.0	18.1	10-2007
		Champion 745		1260	1233	  38.0	11.4	05-2007
		Game Shok HP 712	1280	1209	  75.0	17.2	10-2007
		Game Shok SP 710	1260	1220	  47.0	10.7	09-2007
		Gold Medal 711B		1080	1121	  68.4	15.7	06-2005
		Gold Medal 719		1200	1236	  50.0	12.1	06-2016
		Gold Medal 922A		1080	1071	  57.0	10.5	06-2016
		Gold Medal UM22		1080	1069	  37.0	 8.7	08-2016
		Lightning 510		1260	1270	  69.5	17.6	04-2005

Fiocchi		22HVCHP			1280	1290	  68.0	19.8	05-2008
		22M320			1080	1127	  63.0	12.4	08-2008
		22SM340			1120	1160	  35.0	 8.4	06-2008

Lapua		Center-X		1073	1040	  61.0	11.5	06-2016

Magtech		Standard Velocity	1150	1069	 111.0	34.5	05-2020

Norma		Match			1066	1004	  41.4	 9.9	08-2016
		Subsonic		1017	 969	  76.2	20.1	11-2017
		Tac			1066	1043	  56.0	15.8	06-2016

Remington	Cyclone			1280	1238	 205.4	38.0	10-2006
		Eley Club Xtra		1085	1039	  45.0	14.3	11-2017
		Eley Target Rifle	1085	1051	  54.0	12.0	09-2007
		Golden Bullet HP 1600	1280	1221	 126.0	25.2	09-2007
		Golden Bullet SP 1500	1255	1216	 110.0	27.9	10-2007
		Subsonic		1000	1005	 122.9	25.2	09-2005
		Target			1150	1097	 100.0	20.8	09-2015
		Thunderbolt		1255	1251	  54.9	18.6	04-2005

RWS		Subsonic		1000	 974	 125.1	29.6	04-2005
		Target Rifle		1080	1061	  64.8	17.9	06-2005

S&B		Club Match		1089	1110	 131.0	25.3	12-2006
		High Velocity		1329	1334	  74.0	17.8	11-2017
		Standard Velocity	1089	1086	  81.0	17.9	11-2017

SK		Biathlon Sport		1106	1045	  37.0	11.0	01-2018
		Flatnose Target		1076	1038	  50.0	11.9	06-2020
		Magazine		1050	1009	  58.7	13.4	08-2016
		Rifle Match		1033	1028	  43.0	10.8	08-2016
		Semi-Auto Rifle		1132	1066	  72.0	15.8	06-2020
		Standard Plus		1050	1014	  48.1	11.3	08-2016

Winchester	222, 333, 525		1280	1225	  91.0	24.7	06-2020
		Dynapoint		 UNK	1087	  77.1  17.5	08-2005
		M-22			1255	1211	 121.0	22.6	06-2020
		Super-X HP		1280	1282	  48.9	13.8	04-2006
		Super-X SP		1255	1202	  73.3	17.2	04-2006
		Super-X Powerpoint	1280	1241	 102.7	29.6	07-2006
		T-22			1150	1171	  70.8	17.6	07-2006
		Wildcat			1255	1232	  56.0  16.6	08-2005
		Xpert 22		1220	1185	  59.7	17.2	04-2005

Wolf		Match Extra		1033	1096	  58.0	11.2	02-2006
		Match Target		1050	1076	  40.5	 9.9	06-2005

===========================================

CZ-452 American
					Advertised
MFG		Model			Vel	Mean Vel  ES	SD	Date Shot

Aguila		High Velocity HP	1250	1274	  89.0	17.9	06-2008
		High Velicity SP	1250	1249	 101.0	19.5	06-2009
		Pistol Match		 925	1050	  62.0	16.7	06-2020
		Rifle Match		1080	1051	  42.0	11.2	06-2020
		Standard Velocity	1135	1059	  41.0	10.2	06-2009
		Subsonic HP		1015	1007	  79.8	15.6	12-2015
		Subsonic SP		1015	 973	  88.1	20.8	12-2015
		Target			1080	1057	  64.0	15.1	06-2020

Armscor		High Velocity HP	1260	1297	 132.0	31.4	09-2015
		Standard Velocity	1135	1137	  74.0	20.1	09-2015

CCI		AR Tactical		1200	1212	  49.0	12.5	09-2015
		Blazer			1255	1240	  86.0	18.0	08-2008
		Green Tag		1070	 991	  69.6	15.0	12-2015
		Mini-Mag HP		1280	1244	  61.0	14.3	06-2016
		Mini-Mag Solid		1255	1205	  77.0	18.2	08-2016
		Pistol Match		1070	 983	  57.2	15.4	06-2016
		Select			1200	1140	  50.0	15.6	08-2008
		SGB			1280	1131	  63.0	15.0	08-2016
		Standard Velocity	1070	 994	  63.5	15.1	12-2015
		Subsonic		1050	1017	  53.7	14.2	06-2018

CI		High Velocity		1250	1211	  99.0	21.0	06-2016
		Target			1050	1044	  64.0	17.0	01-2018			

Eley		Action			1090	1064	  33.0	 7.5	06-2020
		Club			1085	1035	  49.0	10.8	11-2016
		Contact			1090	1044	  37.0	 9.4	09-2015
		Edge			1085	1069	  34.0	 8.5	09-2015
		Force			1250	1171	  70.0	16.8	09-2015
		High Velocity HP	1250	1139	  94.0	21.9	06-2018
		Subsonic HP		1040	 993	  36.3	 9.3	09-2015
		Target			1085	1040	  37.0	 9.6	09-2015

Federal		American Eagle HP	1280	1195	  74.0	18.2	11-2016
		American Eagle Solid	1260	1193	  67.0	16.6	11-2016
		Champion 510		1240	1189	  60.0	13.0	12-2015
		Champion 745		1260	1198	  92.0	18.1	11-2016
		Game-Shok 712		1260	1190	 123.0	28.1	06-2018
		Gold Medal 711B		1080	1029	 121.1	28.6	06-2018
		Gold Medal 719		1200	1216	  54.0	11.0	06-2018
		Gold Medal 922A		1280	1056	  65.0	12.1	06-2018
		Gold Medal UM22		1080	1066	  43.0	 9.4	08-2016

Fiocchi		22M320			1080	1118	  58.0	12.7	08-2008
		22SM340			1120	1147	  36.0	 9.2	06-2008
		22HVCHP			1263	1273	  84.0	19.6	01-2018

Lapua		Center-X		1073	1022	  36.0	 9.2	01-2018

Magtech		Standard Velocity	1150	1094	 168.0	37.2	06-2020

Norma		Match			1066	 998	  59.6	13.3	08-2016
		Subsonic		1017	 956	  85.5	21.9	01-2018
		Tac			1066	1055	  59.0	13.3	06-2016

Remington	Cyclone			1280	1230	 164.0	30.6	06-2018
		Eley Target Rifle	1085	1015	  43.4	11.6	11-2016
		Golden Bullet Solid	1255	1158	 184.0	35.1	08-2016
		Target			1150	1093	  89.0	19.5	09-2015
		Thunderbolt		1255	1213	  72.0	22.1	12-2015

RWS		Subsonic		1000	 891	 113.3	24.3	08-2016
		Target Rifle		1080	1014	  90.0	19.8	06-2018

S&B		Standard Velocity	1089	1071	  59.0	16.4	06-2018

SK		Biathlon Sport		1106	1049	  45.0	10.8	01-2018
		Magazine		1050	1025	  51.0	11.2	08-2016
		Rifle Match		1033	1022	  37.0	 8.8	08-2016
		Standard Plus		1050	1023	  53.1	11.0	08-2016

Winchester	Dynapoint		 UNK	1062	 122.0	24.8	08-2008
		Super-X X22LR		1255	1163	  67.0	16.7	08-2016
		Super-X HP X22LRH	1280	1220	  50.0	14.7	01-2018
		Super-X Pwr Pt X22LRPP	1280	1206	 122.0	35.1	06-2018	
		Wildcat			1255	1141	 117.0	24.7	06-2016
		XPert 22		1220	1140	  63.0	15.6	12-2015

Wolf		Match Extra		1033	1033	  50.0	13.0	06-2018
		Match Target		1050	1001	  93.4	22.9	12-2015



===========================================
 
#3 · (Edited)
Ruger MKII and Taurus 94 Chrono Results

Code:
Ruger MKII Chrono Test
					Advertised
MFG		Model			Vel	Mean Vel  ES	SD	Date Shot

Aguila		High Velocity HP	1250	1137	  71.5	19.6	04-2006
		High Velocity Solid	1250	1134	  99.0	27.9	03-2007
		Pistol Match		 925	 956	  83.0	19.5	05-2020
		Rifle Match		1080	 935	  75.0	16.6	05-2020
		Standard Velocity	1135	 942	 101.2	30.5	04-2006
		Subsonic HP		1015	 978	  98.6	18.1	04-2006
		Subsonic SP		1015	 956	  61.4	14.0	10-2006
		Target			1080	 924	  70.0	16.0	05-2020

Armscor		High Velocity HP	1260	1165	  97.0	25.3	12-2015
		Standard Velocity	1135	1061	  92.0	18.0	12-2015

CCI		AR Tactical		1200	1084	  50.0	15.4	12-2015
		Blazer			1255	1135	  80.1  20.4	04-2006
		Clean Subsonic		1070	 982	  72.0	13.9	07-2020
		Green Tag		1070	 962	  58.9	15.6	06-2005
		Mini-Mag HP		1280	1113	  79.0	15.3	05-2007
		Mini-Mag SP		1255	1128	  65.0	18.5	05-2007
		Pistol Match		1070	 931	  45.8	15.0	05-2007
		SGB			1280	1070	  66.0  18.0	04-2006
		Select			1200	1020	 147.6	28.0	09-2007
		Standard Velocity	1070	 920	  56.0	16.0	12-2015
		Subsonic		1050	1010	  45.0	11.7	04-2006

CI		High Velocity Solid	1250	1054	 130.8	35.7	02-2016
		Target			1050	 988	 115.0	22.0	05-2020

Eley 		Action			1090	 972	  70.0	16.6	05-2020
		Club			1085	 974	  38.6	12.3	12-2015
		Contact			1090	 979	  72.1	14.2	12-2015
		Edge			1085	 977	  59.3	13.4	02-2016
		Force			1250	1063	  83.0	18.5	12-2015
		High Velocity HP - New	1250	1027	 103.6	21.2	08-2017
		Subsonic Hollow Point	1040	 925	  71.6	17.0	11-2016
		Target			1085	 906	  61.3	14.3	12-2015

Federal		American Eagle HP	1280	1088	  65.0	16.4	11-2016
		American Eagle Solid	1260	1081	  76.0	20.9	11-2016
		AutoMatch AM22		1200	1084	  85.0	20.5	10-2007
		Champion 745		1260	1057	  72.0	19.5	11-2016
		Game Shok HP 712	1280	1083	  44.0	13.6	10-2007
		Game Shok SP 710	1260	1072	  71.0	17.7	09-2007
		Gold Medal 711B		1080	1001	  49.0	14.0	06-2005
		Gold Medal 719		1200	1118	  40.0	11.8	08-2017
		Gold Medal 922A		1080	 962	  67.5	15.0	11-2016
		Gold Medal UM22		1080	 971	  49.7	12.6	08-2017
		Lightning 510		1260	1118	  66.4	17.4

Fiocchi		22HVCHP			1250	1115	 130.0	31.0	02-2016

Lapua		Center-X		1073	 962	  57.5	13.9	08-2017

Magtech		Standard Velocity	1150	 906	 174.0	54.7	05-2020

Norma		Match			1100	 883	 119.3	27.0	11-2016
		Tac			1066	 918	 100.1	24.4	11-2016

Remington	Cyclone			1280	1110	 207.3	39.9	06-2005
		Eley Target Rifle	1085	 932	  85.8	20.7	11-2016
		Golden Bullet HP 1600 	1280	1033	 193.2	40.5	06-2005
		Golden Bullet SP 1500	1255	1076	 171.2	36.1	10-2007
		Subsonic		1000	 828	 174.4	48.0	09-2007
		Target			1150	 978	  85.5	22.8	11-2016
		Thunderbolt		1255	1087	 108.9	24.2	04-2005

RWS		Subsonic		1000	 894	 107.0	27.5	04-2005
		Target Rifle		1080	 959	 110.4	26.1	06-2005

S&B		Club Match		1089	 989	  81.0	15.7	12-2006
		High Velocity HP	1280	1199	  97.0	23.0	02-2016
		Standard Velocity	1089	 970	  91.6	20.8	02-2016

SK		Magazine		1073	 896	  85.4	20.3	11-2016
		Rifle Match		1073	 942	  52.8	11.9	08-2017

Winchester	222, 333, 525		1280	1117	 100.0	20.7	07-2020
		Dynapoint		1150	 966	  87.0	19.8	09-2007
		M-22			1255	1120	  83.0	18.1	07-2020
		Super-X X22LR		1255	1001	 180.8	34.0	02-2016
		Super-X HP X22LRH	1280	1066	  97.0	24.5	02-2016
		Super-X PowerPoint	1280	1101	 105.4	29.5	06-2005
		T-22			1150	1065	  58.0	15.2	07-2020
		Wildcat			1255	1046	 143.2	40.2	03-2007
		Xpert 22		1220	1079	  76.5	19.2	05-2007

Wolf		Match Extra		1033	 999	  65.1	17.0	04-2006
		Match Target		1050	 961	  85.0	22.5	06-2005
====================================================================

Taurus 94 Chrono Test
					Advertised
MFG		Model			Vel	Mean Vel  ES	SD	Date Shot

Aguila		High Velocity HP	1250	1046	  66.0	17.3	06-2008
		High Velocity SP	1250	1073	  69.5	15.8	09-2005
		Pistol Match		 925	 919	  78.5	20.4	05-2019	
		Rifle Match		1080	 867	  52.2	14.8	05-2019
		Standard Velocity	1135	 947	  52.2	13.8	09-2005
		Subsonic HP		1015	 926	  72.8	17.2	04-2008
		Subsonic SP		1015	 895	  77.6	16.8	06-2009
		Target			1080	 861	 115.9	26.9	05-2019

Armscor		High Velocity HP	1260	1090	 131.0	30.2	02-2016
		Standard Velocity	1135	1017	  84.9	20.6	02-2016

CCI		AR Tactical		1200	1022	  46.3	12.2	06-2016
		Blazer			1255	1040	  87.0	19.5	09-2007
		Green Tag		1070	 894	 104.0	19.4	06-2009
		Mini-Mag HP		1280	1045	  80.6	19.8	05-2007
		Mini-Mag SP		1255	1032	  77.8	20.6	05-2007
		Pistol Match		1070	 886	  68.8	21.1	05-2007
		SGB			1280	 979	  70.6	20.4	08-2008
		Select			1200	 952	  89.2	22.4	10-2007
		Standard Velocity	1070	 904	 126.0	23.2	06-2016		
		Subsonic		1050	 929	  77.2	19.8	06-2009

CI		High Velocity Solid	1250	1012	 200.5	48.1	02-2016
		Target			1050	 959	  89.0	22.0	05-2020			

Eley		Action			1090	 933	  82.0	22.6	05-2020
		Contact			1090	 943	  99.6	17.4	08-2017
		Club			1085	 934	  75.1	17.4	06-2016
		Edge			1085	 927	  85.8	20.0	02-2016
		Force			1250	1014	  97.6	24.0	06-2016
		High Velocity HP - New	1250	 945	  83.2	21.6	11-2017
		Subsonic HP		1040	 876	  80.5	19.2	08-2017
		Target			1085	 905	 116.1	27.7	06-2016

Federal		American Eagle HP	1260	1053	  67.0	16.7	08-2017
		American Eagle Solid	1240	1027	  79.7	21.4	08-2017
		AutoMatch AM22		1200	1042	  66.0	14.6	10-2007
		Champion 510		1240	1047	  57.0	15.3	11-2017
		Champion 745		1260	1026	 126.4	24.9	08-2008
		Game Shok HP 712	1280	1027	  97.6	22.6	10-2007
		Game Shok SP 710	1260	 984	 125.4	26.2	09-2007
		Gold Medal 711B		1080	 906	  84.7	18.9	02-2016
		Gold Medal 719		1200	1081	  64.0	13.2	05-2020
		Gold Medal 922A		1080	 925	  83.0	24.0	05-2020

Fiocchi		22HVCHP			1280	1052	 115.4	30.2	05-2008
		22SM340			1120	 987	  69.6	14.2	06-2008

Magtech		Standard Velocity	1150	 860	 196.0	60.7	05-2020

Norma		Match			1066	 839	 151.8	36.7	11-2017
		Subsonic		1017	 849	 112.5	28.1	11-2017
		Tac			1066	 884	  99.0	24.5	06-2016

Remington	Cyclone			1280	 928	 249.0	65.2	09-2007
		Golden Bullet HP 1600	1280	 935	 251.0	70.1	09-2007
		Golden Bullet SP 1500	1255	 957	 171.4	47.2	10-2007
		Subsonic		1000	 806	 187.4	49.5	09-2007
		Target			1150	 908	 122.4	29.8	08-2017
		Thunderbolt		1255	 950	 183.0	37.2	10-2007

RWS		Subsonic		1000	 843	 113.2	29.4	09-2005
		Target Rifle		1080	 871	  85.5	20.6	08-2017

S&B		Club Match		1089	 920	  81.2	20.7	12-2006
		Standard Velocity	1089	 890	 103.2	22.6	02-2016

SK		Standard Plus		1073	 869	  76.6	20.1	08-2017

Winchester	Dynapoint		1150	 936	  74.4	17.2	09-2007
		Super-X X22LR		1255	 946	 143.7	38.9	02-2016
		Super-X HP X22LRH	1280	1033	 112.9	25.9	08-2017
		Wildcat			1255	 972	 203.4	47.2	03-2007
		XPert 22		1220	1006	  65.8	18.1	05-2007

Wolf		Match Extra		1033	 913	  99.2	25.6	05-2008
		Match Target		1050	 881	 161.1	38.9	07-2006
====================================================================
 
#4 · (Edited)
How long is the A&B barrel on your 10/22? You appear to be getting slightly more velocity than my 18" GM. BTW, almost every round I fire at a target passes through my Shooting Chrony first at 3' from the muzzle. I've started a log that will eventually have hundreds (if not thousands!) of test results for different brands so maybe sometime in the future we can compare notes. It would be interesting to see an accurate comparison of different length barrels wouldn't it?

Best regards,

Dennis :Blasting_
 
#5 ·
Word of Caution

I am planning to do some more 22 RF chrongraphing and came across some info that might be of interest.
I was cautioned about some potential pitfalls to chronographing subsonic ammo. That is, even if the bullet is subsonic, the blast coming off the muzzle will be start out super sonic. So there is a potential for the blast to "hit" the sky screens first. If this happens, the blast can trigger one or both of the screens. If it triggers both you should get a velocity very close to the speed of sound for your given conditions (temp, humidity, etc.). If it just triggers the first sky screen, the measured velocity will be slow. That is, the blast get to and triggers screen 1 before the bullet gets there then the 2nd screen has to wait for the bullet to pass over to stop the clock.
I spoke with the folks at Oehler about this and was told that they regularly use a blast screen (a board or cardboard with a hole through it for the bullet to pass through between the muzzle and the chronograph) when chronograhing subsonic ammo. But given how mild the "blast" is from a 22 RF LR that placing the screen 20' or so from the muzzle should eliminate the above worries.
FYI
Jim
 
#6 ·
jimfinn said:
I am planning to do some more 22 RF chrongraphing and came across some info that might be of interest.
I was cautioned about some potential pitfalls to chronographing subsonic ammo. That is, even if the bullet is subsonic, the blast coming off the muzzle will be start out super sonic. So there is a potential for the blast to "hit" the sky screens first. If this happens, the blast can trigger one or both of the screens. If it triggers both you should get a velocity very close to the speed of sound for your given conditions (temp, humidity, etc.). If it just triggers the first sky screen, the measured velocity will be slow. That is, the blast get to and triggers screen 1 before the bullet gets there then the 2nd screen has to wait for the bullet to pass over to stop the clock.
I spoke with the folks at Oehler about this and was told that they regularly use a blast screen (a board or cardboard with a hole through it for the bullet to pass through between the muzzle and the chronograph) when chronograhing subsonic ammo. But given how mild the "blast" is from a 22 RF LR that placing the screen 20' or so from the muzzle should eliminate the above worries.
FYI
Jim
Yeah, I tried getting "at the muzzle" readings and ran up against that problem but at 3' I haven't been having any "wild readings". The blast screen tip sounds like a good 'un! Thanks!

Dennis
 
#7 · (Edited)
The A&B barrel is 18" long and is of the bull, unfluted type. It was part of the stock and barrel combo that Midway offers.

15 feet for the start screen of the chrono will pretty much take care of the muzzle blast problem. Especially doing rimfire stuff. My IPSC loads are a 230 gr RN .45ACP doing about 740 fps. If muzzle blast would be a problem it would show up when I do these. At major matches, the chrono is typically set up in an enclosed box with artificial lighting. Very accurate but very cumbersome to tote around. For what we're doing here, open screens will do the job.
jimfinn said:
I spoke with the folks at Oehler about this and was told that they regularly use a blast screen (a board or cardboard with a hole through it for the bullet to pass through between the muzzle and the chronograph) when chronograhing subsonic ammo.
Dug around the 'Net and found a photo of one solution to the 'blast screen'. It's from the USPSA Area 8 Tournament. Scroll down about halfway and look for the one titled 'Chrono Man'.
 
#8 ·
One useful value to accumulate would be Ballistic Coefficient. Real-world BCs, especially in YOUR gun are pretty useful as you calculate and tune your POAim, point blank range, and other settings using software to fine-tune.

In the past, I'd chono'd quite a few .22LR rounds for this purpose and still use the data derived. Published BC data for rimfires is a little hard to find, and you'd take it with a grain of salt anyway.

It might be worth the effort to shoot enough groups somewhat downrange for this purpose - since you're going to so much effort anyway.
 
#9 ·
A very interesting eXercise, but time consuming ... I have one bench @ my range dedicated to chronographing ... The screens are permently mounted 10' from the muzzle from the longest rifle barrel elminating false readings the result of muzzle blast ...

Along with the chronograph information, I also record time of day information collected, temp., relative humidity, and air movement ...

Generally chronograph information will vary from day to day, rifle to rifle, as will different "lots" of ammunition shot through each ... NOTHING remains the same ... Never, ever, never ... Atleast, that's what I've found ...

Raw chronograph information will indicate the consistancy of the particular ammuntion tested ...

I've been chronographing various ammunitions for five years this summer and originally started this trying to determine two things : to better understand (?) why some ammunition was more accurate than others when shot from a specific rifle AND "if" sorting ammunition by rim thickness and/or weight was of value ?
 
#11 ·
Additional comments & observations

SD is certainly a "rock solid" indication of the consistancy of the ammunition tested and that's all ...

Velocity is a key to accuracy ? From my experimentation, (testing), aside from consistancy, velocity appears to be the only obvious difference in ammunition ... A particular rifle barrel will shoot ammunition delivering velocity within a certain range more accurately than that which is faster or slower ... BUT ... more than one velocity range is normally encountered which may provide excellent accuracy ?

Ammunition which will not shoot accurately @ 50 yds. will not shoot accurately @ longer distances !

I've also found that ammunition is also affected by temp., humidity, and any apparent lack of any air movement ... The air is always moving ? "Dead calm" conditions can be deceiving ?

Because the "speed of sound" is determined by temp., different ammunitions are more accurate @ a given range (?) than others depending on temp. and humidity ?

I THINK that if a "super-sonic" ammunition is found that's accurate it will be to the point, (distance), that it remains "super-sonic" ... Once the bullet transitions to "sub-sonic", then some degree of accuracy will be lost ? The closer to the target transition occurs, the less accuracy is affected ...

Chronograph information makes one really think ~ :confused:
 
#12 · (Edited)
McBendy_Elbow said:
SD is certainly a "rock solid" indication of the consistancy of the ammunition tested and that's all ...

Ammunition which will not shoot accurately @ 50 yds. will not shoot accurately @ longer distances !:
True. What I'm trying to accomplish here is to find consistent ammo. Just one piece of the accuracy puzzle. Once that is done then it's off to accuracy testing at 50 ft for the rifle and 25 ft for the pistols. If it doesn't make it at those close distances then I won't bother trying it at further distances. Then I'll try it again at 25 yd for the rifle and 50 ft for the pistols. Then again further out.

Velocity is a key to accuracy? -snip- I THINK that if a "super-sonic" ammunition is found that's accurate it will be to the point, (distance), that it remains "super-sonic" ... Once the bullet transitions to "sub-sonic", then some degree of accuracy will be lost ? The closer to the target transition occurs, the less accuracy is affected ...:
True again. Any bullet that slows through the trans-sonic range prior to reaching the target will lose accuracy in the process. The question is just how far out will it be when this occurs. On a standard day at 32F at sea level the speed of sound is 1087 fps, at 95F its 1155 fps. So, a bullet going 1200 fps will destabilze sooner on the hot day than on a cold day. Personally I'm being wary of anything over 1100 fps at extended distances. But hey, I've got to try it. You never know. Maybe some round will destabilize very little and will work at extended distances.

Chronograph information makes one really think ~ :confused:
A man can go mad trying to understand external ballistics. I think I'm already there.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Nice Work Hank..
I have worked in the auto industry for the first 25 year's of my working life.
I have probebly been exposed to every SPC or even quality control program known to man.
Trust me,, it wasnt boaring to me at all ,when I integrated it into my reloading process, probebly 25 years ago.
MBO works great and that's where it all started in the 60's.
Good data with good record's will always be hard to beat.
When properly used ,with good data it's very a very powerfull tool indeed.
I could only laugh out loud ,when I seen the SD for the Rem Golden Bullets...
The ES is alway's interesting too.
Seem's alot of people presently are not happy at all with that stuff.. :confused:
And then to see the SD on the Wolf, that some have been saying is very good..
Very Good Work :t
From one man that truly apreaciate's your effort's.
Jed.
 
#15 ·
Hank Ellis : You might want to compare some SK product and lower grades of Eley and Lapua ammunition to that of U.S. mfg'ers ? This is somewhat of an eye opener ?

I'd be interested in your observations, findings, and any conclussions ... :D
 
#16 · (Edited)
McBendy_Elbow said:
Hank Ellis : You might want to compare some SK product and lower grades of Eley and Lapua ammunition to that of U.S. mfg'ers ? This is somewhat of an eye opener ?

I'd be interested in your observations, findings, and any conclussions ... :D
I will do that eventually.

Starting this project I made a list of every manufacturer and model of .22 rimfire I could find. That list had 121 entries. Whittled that list down to 90 entries due to some cartridges being too powerful for my actions and due to cost being a factor. I refuse to pay more for a box of .22 than what I can reload .45ACP for using premium componets. $6 a box. I do intend to test all 90 cartridges on my short list. I have a feeling that some on the short list will be discarded due to unavailability. Armscor, Mag-Tech, and S&B are ones I'm having trouble finding.

Uncle Jed and McBendy: Thanks for the good words. I started this thing for my own amusement and education. Thought others might be interested.

One thing I've noticed. What works in the rifle may not work in the handgun and vice versa. Example is the Wolf MT. Great in the rifle, not so great in the MKII. Cost doesn't always mean it will work. The $5 a box RWS Subsonic did poorly in both guns tested but the $6 a brick Federal Lightning did fine. It's going to be interesting when the revolver gets its turn at the screens.
 
#17 ·
McBendy_Elbow said:
to better understand (?) why some ammunition was more accurate than others when shot from a specific rifle AND "if" sorting ammunition by rim thickness and/or weight was of value ?
AAaaaaand????

Hank... excellent exercise. I always appreciate and want to acknowledge your efforts in undertaking this. It is a lot of work for the general knowledge base of shooters. I am a little surprised by some of the data already - the relative low numbers of Xpert 22, which has NEVER shot in ANY gun I own, and the similar numbers of the RWS - those 2 loads in particular are on polar opposites in my experience. The Rifle match has outshot the subsonic in every gun I have ever tried.

Just more proof that this is just one of many variables in the accuracy game. Great stuff... please keep it up. I was going to recommend some loads, but it sounds like you have a looooong list. I look forward to seeing more data when you have it.

Check your PM's too
Mark
 
#19 ·
Anyone who has ever sorted (economy) ammunition will say either, "it's a waste of time" OR "the improvement of the accuracy was minimul", BUT none ever say they found a new way to create Federal UM1 !

This holds true, I think among marksmen who sort by rim thickness, weight, or sort twice by rim thickness and then like rim thicknesses by weight ...

My opinion is this : having sorted thousands of rounds of .22's from economy to some of the best ... Sorting "ecomomy" ammunition will lower the SD, (under 20), and eliminate SOME fliers ? Sorting "high end" target ammunition will show "no improvement" ... Sorting "middle of the line" ammunition will eliminate a substancial number of fliers and improve the SD (low teens) ... The ammunition will be very accurate for the most part ....

BUT, sorting by weight & rim thickness will only deal with these two inconsistancies associated with accuracy and ONLY these two ... AND, there are several more issues which aren't apparent, plus can't be dealt with ...

Is sorting worth the time spent ? Probably not for the "casual target shooter", hunter, or "plinker" ...

But, I see an advantage by shooting a varity of ammunitions and cataloging the results (?), determining which ammunition can be used for hunting and print a 2" groops @ 50 yds. ... For the "casual target shooter", which ammunition will shoot a "tiny groop" and be competitive @ 50 and 100 yds. ... Finally the "plinker", ammunition which will hit the mark, (can or similar target), inwhich exact shot placement of is of no consequence ...

ALL U.S. made ammunition will meet the above needs, some are eXtememly accurate ...

Accurate shooting is the product of shooting ALOT and recognizing the potential of the rifle/ammunition combination ... You can improve on ability ONLY by shooting alot ! ! !

I find shooting a form of relaxation, recreation, along with a hobby ...

Hank's thread should be very beneficial to the new shooter ! A very interesting and informative thread :D

My opinion ~
 
#20 ·
Added the following chrono results to Ruger 10/22 section.

Aguila High Velocity Solid Point
Aguila Match Pistol
Aguila Standard Velocity
Remington Subsonic

Added the following chrono results to Taurus 94 section.

Aguila High Velocity Solid Point
Aguila Standard Velocity
Remington Subsonic
RWS Subsonic
 
#24 ·
Finally got back to the range for chrono work. Weather, work and family obligations all conspired to keep me away from the screens.

Added the following chrono results to Ruger 10/22 section.

Aguila Subsonic HP
CCI Silhouette
CCI Green Tag
CCI SGB
CCI Standard Velocity
CCI Subsonic
CCI Mini-Mag Solid Point
Wolf Match Extra
 
#26 ·
Well, good to see this back from the dust of time! Anyhow, now that I am wiser I have a question, you see I salute you for your efforts and I dont boubt your credability... BUT
NEVER, I MEAN, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER have I measured factory stuff in the rf category to be that close to its' original load specifications- I also almost always see a load go slower, if not alot slower, then its published velocity!
OIS
MAYBE you're a lucky man! do you happen to have a longer barreled firearm to do testing for us lazy guys with long barreled rifles?