jaia , ran into a guy at the range the other day shooting a factory Savage , heavy barrel, laminated stock . .223 cal.
He said it was hard to not shoot sub one inch groups at 200 yards with his hand loads . His words. I just repeating what he was claiming . I didn't see his target .
Good luck with your quest . Kirby

 

That setup ought to be so accurate that for targts you will put honey on the paper and shoot flys and wasps. :bthumb:

I predict tiny little groups in you future.

 

Tiny groups at long distances, that's what I'm after.
Rimfire just won't get 'er done.

Another delivery this afternoon:

I can live with that.
Might go to a 20 moa rail in the future,
for now these will do the job.

Kirby, 1" groups at 200 aren't that big a deal,
my AR 223 Varminter can accomplish that with factory ammo.
I want consistent 1/4 moa at 200 yards.

 

Single shot, right bolt, right port, 223,
target trigger adjustable down to just under 6 ounces.

Add a Shilen Match Select stainless heavy barrel, 26 inches long
and an F-Class stock pillared for the 4.4 inch bolt pattern.(

What is your twist rate and bullet weight, or preferred brand of bullet?

 

Twist is 1:8, 77 gr smkbthp atop H322

 

I look forward to following along to see how this build develops. IMO the ability to reload for center fire makes the quest for accuracy much less frustrating.

 

Do you have the chamber’s finish reamer specs? What flavor brass, and what dies will you be using?

 

How did you decide on H322? I really like Varget with the 69 gr SMK in my AR.


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reamer specs?

I told Jim at Northland that as long as it fits factory match 223,
I will fit my reloads to that chamber. Not like I'm into serious competitive shooting.

brass and what dies

Lee 223 dies and whatever once shot brass that is in my collection.
Again, not like I'm into serious competitive shooting.

How did you decide on H322?

Ran out of Benchmark last August, there was H322 on the shelf
and not much else at my local reloading supply shop.

But it worked out, H322 is not bad, not bad at all.:bthumb:

 

Don't overlook Hodgdon H335

How did you decide on H322?

Ran out of Benchmark last August, there was H322 on the shelf
and not much else at my local reloading supply shop.

But it worked out, H322 is not bad, not bad at all.:bthumb:

Please give H335 a try if all else fails. It's not an 'extreme powder' like H322 and Varget, but gets used a lot, especially at my house.

And if you are loading from the Sierra manual, be sure to use the specs for bolt action, not AR.

 

I shoot an out of the box Savage LRPV with a right bolt, left port single shot. I like it a lot. Very convenient on the bench. Have trigger set at about 6 oz. It is a 6BR in 12 twist. The only thing I have a bit of an issue with is that the throat has been cut for longer bullets which I cannot stabilize with a 12 twist. I suspect Savage has to build them to SAAMI specs, which is the root issue. With a custom barrel you will not have that restriction.

Some suggestions to consider:

- For printing small hole groups I would go with a 6PPC or 6BR instead of a .223. You will have more choices for custom target bullets and essentially all loading components and tools. 6PPC is the benchrest standard. A 6mm bullet is going to reach further out with accuracy.

- Think about what range you want to shoot. You want the slowest twist possible for the range. Berger is a good resource to look at the various target bullets and what twist they need to stabilize them. More twist is not better as the higher the twist the more the bullet wobbles...

- Next determine the bullets you want to shoot and make sure the throat is cut so you can chamber them to go from 0.005" into the lands to a 0.025 jump.

- Pick your brass, and there is probably none better than Lapua. That leads you to the neck dimensions. Are you going to go with a tight neck and the necessary neck turning? It is a pain, and some are getting away from it.

- Get good reloading tools for the critical steps. I really like my Forster Ultra Seater die and Bushing Bump die. I use custom sized bushing and expander balls to get my neck prep just right. The Lee Collet Die may be another much cheaper consideration. It has some advantages but much less flexibility. I have no personal experience with it, but hear good things about it.

Just some thoughts from a guy that has gone done the factory target rifle route, and seen what counts and what does not. The AccurateShooter.com site of course is an excellent source of information.

Here is an example of what my 6BR LRPV can do with a good load. With a bad load like a 62 grain bullet that is too short for the throat, it won't stay under 1" at 100 meters though. That is why I suggest you spend a lot of time thinking about maximum target range, twist, bullet sizes, throat sizes. Most decide on a short range (100 m) or long range (300 m) gun. They are not the same (barrel/chamber).

 

right bolt, left port

Very convenient for bench work, but I'm uncomfortable with a left port.
I've seen what can happen with an explosive firearm malfunction.
As a rightie, I really don't want the blowout to be on my side of the rifle.

6PPC or 6BR instead of a .223

I'm comfortable with the 223, it's an effective and relatively inexpensive target/hunting round.
Fairly good barrel lifespan also, due to the smaller powder charge
and I already have the reloading gear for it.

You want the slowest twist possible for the range.

I'm happy with a 1:8, it works with 40 gr v-max for varminting
and 77 to 80 gr for target work out to 400 yards during informal competitions:

"Hey, betcha can't pop that golfball on the berm behind the 300 yard target frame."
"Oh, really?" Bang. "Whaddya think now?" :bthumb:

 

I get the feeling you are using very expensive components to build a very ordinary gun. But each to their own. Some good info here if you want to find out what the difference is between an ordinary factory gun and a real custom gun. Have a look at the table of brass options and see how they vary in simply weight. The more important factor is case volume, and neck brass thickness. Pure rookie mistake to mix the brass and expect to get accuracy.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/

 

I get the feeling you are using very expensive components to build a very ordinary gun.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/

I wouldn't consider it an "ordinary gun". It's not like you can walk into a gun shop or big box store and buy a 223 rifle with a Shilen barrel in an F class stock. It may be overkill for the 223 cartridge with Lee dies and unsorted brass. Knowing The OP he will turn this into a project and will add in each aspect of precision reloading as he learns it or becomes available to him.

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give H335 a try

Can do, only have a pound of H322 left.

using expensive components to build a very ordinary gun.

Forgive me, I'm just another interested amateur...but I'm having a good time while I'm doing it.

First time I've assembled a centerfire from random components.
I'll make mistakes and learn from them, I'm sure.
That's the nice thing about the Savage Target Action,
replacing an abused or shot out barrel is 15 minutes work.
If/when I find I want different specs, there are multiple barrel makers
producing barrels in any contour or chamber styles.

I do sort my brass into brands and checking volume/weight ain't difficult.
Just another way to kill a rainy day or hide in the garage when the wife has the "girls" over.

 

Sierra lists an accuracy load listed for all their bulletsj in ARs

http://accurateshooter.net/Downloads/sierra223ar.pdf

With the 26 inch barrel it's not going to directly apply but it will give you an idea of the powders to use and the velocities you are trying to get.

With a 77 or 69 you want it to run between 2650-2750 fps.

The 77 is really not designed for gilt edge accuracy. I think it was developed for rattle battle which is shot at 600 at a sustained pace from the magazine.

The Sierra 69 is a much more consistent bullet.

At distances 300 and out you will want to shoot a Sierra 80 at 2800 fps.

Inside 200 the Sierra 60 varminter is THE magic bullet. It's everybodies dirty little secret. You have to shoot it to believe it.

26 is a pretty long barrel. You'll want to start below the recommended minimums in the reloading guide or you'll push the longer bullets past the 2750 fps accuracy mark.

The powders typically used in competition are VV N140, RL15, Varget, 4895, and AA2520. Personally I like the way AA2520 meters in a Dillon. 2460 is another good powder if you can't find the popular ones, but really any medium burn rate powder should work.

300 and in I use hornady 75's BTHP. Further out the Sierra 80's are very consistent. Some like the 75 Amax but I don't think they are as consistent as 80's.

 

That's the nice thing about the Savage Target Action,
replacing an abused or shot out barrel is 15 minutes work.

Add or "wrongly specified", and don't forget the $500+ for the barrel and chambering. Once you cut a chamber you really can't un cut it. About all you can do is cut of some of the barrel and cut it again.

Throwing your mixed brand brass in the garbage or giving to a "friend" will be the first step to improving accuracy. Buy a box of 100 Lapua and get it over with. For best accuracy you want to track the number of times you fire the brass and keep the brass matched in the number of firings. About every 5 firings you should anneal the neck and shoulder. There are lots of useful and time consuming tasks without wasting your time on foolish tasks like using brass of mixed pedigree.

If it were me doing it, the first thing I would do is buy the Lapua brass, size it in your Lee dies, which hopefully are the collet style. Seat some of your preferred bullets. Berger tend to be the better of the none custom ones. Then measure your neck diameter of the loaded brass to a tenth of a thou. A preferred neck size for your chamber would be about 1.5 to 2 thou larger than that measured size.

The next step is to measure the length of the cartridge to the ogive of the preferred bullets when they are seated correctly in the neck. That will tell you how long you want the throat to be. Or, you could give the Lapua cases and preferred bullets to a bench rest gunsmith and let them do it to determine what size of a reamer you should get...

 

$500+ for the barrel and chambering

Educational expenses are tax deductible, right?

@ LShark, I've got a box of the 69 gr sierra's on the shelf.
Haven't opened them yet as the rifle hasn't been built, but they are there.

Ya'll do realize that all these recommendations will be attempted, sooner or later.
Just to see what works best and to be able to say I made the effort.

Can you imagine a 223 F-Class Fuglie?

 

Subscribed!

:snipersmi

 

I think if you really want accuracy you are starting with the wrong caliber. The .222 has proven it is better than the .223. It is a bench champ, the .223 is not. The .22 cal is cool, but I think you might want to look towards a .22-250 AI. I lean towards performance and rarity though...everyone can have a Chevette at the range.

 

Led, I'm starting with what I know.
After I chew up the throat on this barrel, well,
not that expensive to pick up another set of dies and a new barrel.
By then, I'll have figured out how much I don't know, and started to rectify the situation.



For starters: Is it better to measure powder by volume, or weight?
Now there is some interesting reading. Lots of strongly expressed opinions.
How much does moisture affect either method?

 

For starters: Is it better to measure powder by volume, or weight?
How much does moisture affect either method?

It is common for accuracy loaders to use a powder measure to get a charge in the scale pan that is half a grain or so under the final charge, and then use a powder dribbler to get the exact charge by weight. You will want to measure to the individual bit of powder with a powder like Varget.

Old saying - "Always keep your powder dry!"

I am assuming you are talking about the powder charge. If you are measuring case volume I always use powder to measure it and weigh the powder that level fills the case. Best to never put water/moisture in a case, plus it is more difficult to measure.

 

Cases by volume and powder by weight. IMO anyway. I can see touching on both with powder, but you have more time on your hands than I. ��

I wouldn't worry about moisture as long as you do a reasonable job at storage of components. Unless you are making huge extended runs of thousands of rounds in a super humid jungle I can't see it having a huge impact on your rounds. I haven't crunched any numbers on Time and degradation of powder when exposed to humidity though. I admit I shoot for accuracy, but competition is usually only with myself. MOC is what I strive for on a bad day......

 

I have a Savage 10 FLP, 26 inch bull barrel .223 1-9 twist. Shooting H335 and 68 grain Hornady HP. It's their match bullet. Live in the middle of bean field USA. You made a good choice in the .223 maybe not the most accurate for some but seems pretty accurate for me. Just ask the groundhogs around here what they think. If you can find one.

 

Y'all can call me crazy, but when you are ready to launch give a box of Winchester White box varmint pack.
I have a Savage action and it shoots very well. I am pretty consistent with 1 inch at a hundred and my son can keep it at 3/4. I started getting it for the brass but I doubt that I can load much better. I mainly hunt woodchucks and a little paper. The only thing I did to the 12V was put it in a laminated stock.

 

I have been looking for some of that wondering how it shot. I need some new brass and like you decided to buy some value packs. Thanks for the tip.

 

For starters: Is it better to measure powder by volume, or weight?

If you use a ball powder there should be no difference.

If you use an extruded stick powder you may have a difference of a couple of kernels.

With extruded powders you have to throw low and trickle up to a given weight.

There's a reason they call it the Lee Perfect Powder measure. With a good ball powder you should be able to throw it to the precise weight you want. With extruded powder it will throw .223 loads within .2 grains which should fall within the range of statistical insignificance. The chemical make up of the powder is probably not that precise.

 

I am quite satisfied with my 223, it's just a old 700BDL Deluxe pencil pipe barrel, the barrel has been free floated, action pillar beaded, and the trigger is just under 2.5 lbs .But with Winchester Combined Technology 50gr after the barrel has been fouled it will shoot sub moa. Then I went on a quest to find a load that would equal that out of a clean, cold barrel. I use Redding competition die set and with 52gr. Berger Varmint bullets on top of 24.5 grs. Of H335 it does the job and works good on groundhogs out to 200 yrds and Coyotes that come in to my calls.

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