7.62 mils on your elevation would be 76 clicks... Your 0.1 mil adjustment is 1/10th of a mil so 10 clicks = 1 mil . It's a more coarse adjustment than 1/4 MOA but definitely easier mental math with the mil system for me

 

After using MOA for all these years I was little intimidated by MILs. After using MILs for awhile I don't think I'd buy another scope for PRS style shooting that uses MOA

What they said. But don’t count clicks. Dial your turret to read 7.6.

Dialing is way faster easier (and faster) than counting

 

A Mil is equal to 3.6 inches at 100 yards.

The turret adjustment info for the Vortex Venom here says:
Turret Adjustments
Each adjustment or “click” moves the point of impact either 1/4 MOA or .10 MRAD. .... .10 MRAD is equal to .36” at 100 yards, or 1 cm at 100 m.

So 7.62 would be 76 clicks and move the point of impact 27.3 inches at 100 yards.

 

What they said. But don’t count clicks. Dial your turret to read 7.6.

 

This only works if you have the Zero Stop set.

 

In 1000 yard shooting I get a 100 yard zero and zero the turret then dial from there, counting clicks would make you Bat Poop crazy...

 

PS
I like a recital that matches the turrets. Look though the scope. Count the lines between the bullseye and bullet impacts and dial accordingly.

Cheers


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i see i need to spend a bit of time with my scope - i can understand the info given but i need to do it in real time at the range to grasp it totally , unfortunately i have scopes in more than one system , i think i need to spend time with all of them ,

 

Thank you very much guys. But I think Garrett52B has it right, if the adjustment is 7.62 mills, then you need 7.6.2 clicks to get to the right distance. That is where a mill radiant scope makes it easier to use than MOA.

 

You lost me here, other than maybe dialing the turret slightly less, if your dope reads 12.3moa on a moa scope. you dial 12.25 moa

 

Ok, I am trying to appreciate the easier use of Mils vs MOA as I have only used MOA up until now. Example of my .22 rifle gets a 50 yard sight in so its 7" low at 100 yards and 48 inches low at 200 yards. The turret on my Athlon scopes have about 15 moa per revolution and they turn around four times from bottom to top to get the 50-60 moa maximum adjustment. I assume the Mil version also turns around four times just in different graduations. So I assume that for the 200 yard distance you would turn the turret the same amount of revolutions be it Mils or MOA, but the numbers are different.

Since I have the trajectory numbers in inches memorized for not only my .22 but other centerfire rifles, it seems easy to dial up 7 MOA (about a half a turn) and 24 MOA ( a turn and 3/4) to get the compensation needed for the two ranges in question.

I would think that to use a Mil radiant scope you would need to CONVERT the inch figure at the two yardages to Mils. What is the math for these two examples to arrive at the correct readings as I do not need to do ANY math to get to what I already know about my rifles trajectory and my MOA scope is graduated to line up with my knowledge that has been memorized for decades. Like my 7mm Rem Mag drops 6.8" at 300 yards from a 200 yard zero. What the heck is that in Mils and why is it easier to compute? Now if you have a dope chart in front of you showing Mils, yep that's easy but without a dope chart how do you quickly convert 48 inches at 200 yards to Mils? I can easily do it with the answer of 24 for MOA with no conversions.

 

I would think that to use a Mil radiant scope you would need to CONVERT the inch figure at the two yardages to Mils. What is the math for these two examples to arrive at the correct readings as I do not need to do ANY math to get to what I already know about my rifles trajectory and my MOA scope is graduated to line up with my knowledge that has been memorized for decades. Like my 7mm Rem Mag drops 6.8" at 300 yards from a 200 yard zero. What the heck is that in Mils and why is it easier to compute? Now if you have a dope chart in front of you showing Mils, yep that's easy but without a dope chart how do you quickly convert 48 inches at 200 yards to Mils? I can easily do it with the answer of 24 for MOA with no conversions.

You are taking the hard road here, use the reticle. If you must do math, which you should not be doing. So, if your drop at 300 from 200 is 6.8", that would be a 2.4 moa hold, divide 2.4 by 3.6(1 mil) and now your hold would be .6mils. Shoot one shot, it will be right there in your reticle, what your correction needs to be.
Doing mil math in the field is tough, most of us can calculate moa on the spot for a miss, not many can call dope in mils w/o a defining reticle.

 

I have two Athlon mid-priced scopes and use the 10-40 X 56 2nd focal plane for accuracy testing as it has the tiny little dot that does not change. I also have the 6-24 1st focal plane I like for distance shooting as you can use it on any power and use the same hash mark to get there. The reticle now gets larger and is not as easy to use on target at the higher power.

 

Rolltide

I have yet to read about how to calculate in Mils the simpler method vs MOA my specific question of 7" drop at 100 yards and 48" drop at 200 yards for my .22 rifle. Since I know in inches these amounts it is very simple to dial up 7 moa or 24 moa to shoot these two distances. Again, knowing the drop in inches (not angles in millradiant) what is the calculation in Mils that is easier than my MOA example? We are about 20 posts on this theme and maybe I missed it but where is the answer?

There is one other option here where I might have seen the ANSWER. Its the divide MOA by 3.6 to come up with the amount for Mils. If that is the case, its impossible to characterize that as being SIMPLER than MOA as it requires another calculation beyond MOA to get the answer! What am I missing?

 

You have your dope memorized, so it's easier for you.

Once you get your head wrapped around angles, and not linear measurement, it's way easier. Forget linear measurement, even for MOA. Key thought, it is pure coincidence that 1 MOA is about 1" (1.047") at 100. One MOA is not defined by 1" at 100 yards.

The definition of one MOA is 1/3600 of a circle in degrees. The super cool part of a MIL is that one MIL is 1 unit in 1000 units. Doesn't matter what the unit is. 1 inch in 1000 inches, 1 yard at 1000 yards, etc. It's craploads easier to deal with after you understand it. I went back to a MOA scope on my silhouette rifle and it drives me nuts.

 

MManning-You are making some sense of this issue and I can see why you need to divide MOA by 3.6 at this point. Yes, I probably have memorized some trajectories over the decades with several calibers. For those longer shots on a few rifles I tape a 50 yard increment table to the stock with drop in inches, MOA and windage details. It would also be easy to include Mil data. The fact that MOA is close enough to being 1" at 100, 2" at 200, 3" at 300 etc is so far pretty easy for me to deal with if I know the cartridge trajectory which I assume you have to know whether using Mil or MOA. And by the way, if I recall lots of ammos have the alleged trajectory printed on the box in inches but I might be wrong about this as I handload for everything.

Would you be able to give a couple of instances of some unknowns where the Mil vs MOA system is superior? And more important, how do you calculate any of it. Like in my example, how do you deal with 7" at 100 and 48 inches at 200 to come up with the correct Mil reading?

 

If you write down your dope, it won't make any difference regarding MOA vs MIL. But to do that to cover all atmospheric conditions (winter vs summer and everything in between) and yardages you'll have a book.

Thats where the phone app (strelock, 4dof, AB, etc) comes in. Enter the temp and baro pressure and it'll spit out the dope card.

The biggest instance where mils is easier to deal with is spotting and measuring misses. The numbers are base 10 instead of 4 (.25, .5, .75, 1.0). So if you measure the difference between POA and POI at 0.7 mils, it's 7 clicks to correct. Super fast. The same correction in MOA would be ~2.5 MOA, or 10 clicks. A bit slower since it's 4x2 +2. Generally MIL turrets are easier to read vs MOA since the graduations are more spread out, and MIL turrets are usually 10 per rotation and MOA is say 25. It's harder to get lost on a MIL turret. That said I ended up a full rev out today at a match, doh!

Ultimately the biggest thing to learn thinking in angles, not in inches. You can do the exact same thing in MIL and MOA, but MIL is 10 clicks per full unit, and MOA is 4 per full unit.

Probably doesn't matter at all in a hunting situation, but MILs really help when on the clock in a match.

 

Dont worry about clicks, or inches or math. With the exception of 1 person I have shot with, the rest of use some sort of ballistic app or Kestral with app built in. If your scope is in .1 mils and the ballistic calculator calls for 7.62 mils, drop the .02 from the 7.62, it's just 7.6. From your zero (typically set at 50 yards) turn the dial to 7.6 (this is assuming you properly set your zero /zerostop). That's it, don't over complicate it. For option 1 of the NRL22 monthly matches. Max distance is 100 yards, for most of us that would be 1.6-2.2mils depending on bullet velocity.

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In mils you don’t convert to inches. That’s silly but interesting. At 100m 1 click is 1cm and one mil is 10cm.

Math is easy. Stop trying to do yards and meters. If your shooting a range in yards then figure out how many meters it is.


Or get a range finder in meters.

Again shooting off the reticle is the easiest and most understandable.

Cheers


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I mean he asked about NRL22 and all the COF's are listed in yards. Why would you use meters? Just because he's using mils? It's completely unnecessary. Input target distances into ballistic calculator, dial correction. Done. I have a mil scope and range in yards, as does almost everyone who shots NRL22. Some use MOA, but we still like them lol

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OK so I have a nice Leica rangefinder I use mainly for hunting. You can set it for inches or millimeters, and it will give hold over/under data including inclinometer data. I also have zero stop on both Athlon scopes so after reading the additional posts I do not feel deficient in the equipment category. I am kind of getting that whether you are using MOA or Mil, you have a chart on paper or on smartphone that shows the trajectory of what you are shooting and then it gives how many MOA or Mils adjustment is required to be dead on at the range you are shooting.

I am asking this same question for what feels like the 10th time but it might only be 6. For Mils, how do you take 7" low at 100 yards and 48 inches low at 200 yards and do something with those figures that makes it EASIER than using the simple MOA figures I already know i.e. 7 MOA up for 100 and half of 48 or 24 MOA up for 200. If I know the trajectory at any given yardage in inches, it is very simple math to come up with the amount of MOA for either reticle hold over or using the turret for correction.

I am trying to appreciate the stated "much easier" Mil application, but no one has been able to answer my simple question yet! I have never thought about my calibers trajectory from the standpoint of ANGLES, and if that is what you are supposed to do, please show us how that works in 7" low at 100 and 48" low at 200!

 

OK so I have a nice Leica rangefinder I use mainly for hunting. You can set it for inches or millimeters, and it will give hold over/under data including inclinometer data. I also have zero stop on both Athlon scopes so after reading the additional posts I do not feel deficient in the equipment category. I am kind of getting that whether you are using MOA or Mil, you have a chart on paper or on smartphone that shows the trajectory of what you are shooting and then it gives how many MOA or Mils adjustment is required to be dead on at the range you are shooting.

I am asking this same question for what feels like the 10th time but it might only be 6. For Mils, how do you take 7" low at 100 yards and 48 inches low at 200 yards and do something with those figures that makes it EASIER than using the simple MOA figures I already know i.e. 7 MOA up for 100 and half of 48 or 24 MOA up for 200. If I know the trajectory at any given yardage in inches, it is very simple math to come up with the amount of MOA for either reticle hold over or using the turret for correction.

I am trying to appreciate the stated "much easier" Mil application, but no one has been able to answer my simple question yet! I have never thought about my calibers trajectory from the standpoint of ANGLES, and if that is what you are supposed to do, please show us how that works in 7" low at 100 and 48" low at 200!

Let first ask which model is your range finder?

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OK, if the best procedure is using the bullet holes relative to the point of aim and then correcting based on the hash marks in the reticle for both drop/windage, how is the difference in those hash marks different in Mil vs MOA and then how is Mil easier? In the case of my question 7" low at 100 and 48" low at 200, I already know the answer as to how much MOA to apply and where its located in both the reticle or turret. Some of the things I shoot at in the field, will not like you calculating where to aim based on a previous bullet strike! You will now have to ad lead for an on the run shot! Another words, no one here can calculate EASILY my two question example of how much holdover is involved in how to compute it on paper like simple math. At least the average person here that believes in Mil vs MOA cannot do it or it would have been done by now.

It for me is VERY simple using known inches of drop and the rounding off of MOA to 1" at 100, 2" at 200 etc.

 

No the original question was how to dial a mil scope with a known bullet drop in mils. Your asking for a math lesson. And as far as NRL22, NOBODY is doing math. It's inputs and outputs of a ballistic calculator. If you want easy conversion there is an app that will do exactly what you want. It's called Easy MOA and MIL calculator. Mills being a base 10 system is easier to think about especially under time constraints. You said you memorized the drop in inches, ok memorize them in mils. If you want to learn all the math for inch drop conversion to mils, honestly take a class. I'm sure you will get much better info from a real instructor than us randoms on the interwebs.

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OK, you finally made my point by using the calculator to TELL you what the correction is, unable to use simple math to make the adjustment. What I am trying to get at is MOA is way simpler to compute if you know the drop in inches of your cartridge! I can easily do it in my head without a program only because rounded off MOA is 1" at 100 etc. I dont think in angles but for over 50 years, I have trajectories in my head for inches of a calibers trajectory. Still trying to find out how Mil is easier than MOA even if or especially since you have a calculator program.

 

In your example a drop of one inch at 100 is 1 moa.
But a 22 does not drop one inch at 100. (It is 1.6 to 1.8 mils depending on conditions, I would have to ask a buddy who still uses moa to tell me the drop in moa) @RedDawn

So how does that help you?
You are just memorizing numbers. If you’re going to do that, you can memorize moa or mil.
You are making it more difficult than it needs to be.

 

In your example a drop of one inch at 100 is 1 moa.
But a 22 does not drop one inch at 100. (It is 1.6 to 1.8 mils depending on conditions, I would have to ask a buddy who still uses moa to tell me the drop in moa) @RedDawn

So how does that help you?
You are just memorizing numbers. If you’re going to do that, you can memorize moa or mil.
You are making it more difficult than it needs to be.

You would not need a buddy to tell you the drop, change your guns profile to moa in your app.
We are all making our lives more difficult feeding this guy.

 

Not trying to make it more difficult. Trying to understand the how and why behind statements that Mil is the ONLY way to go and how to get there. Memorizing works great in the field on an Elk hunt where your zero is 200 yards and you are 1.65 high at 100 and 6.8 low at 300. Nothing wrong with that compared to a smart phone with data that needs to be pulled up.

No the drop at 100 is 7 MOA the same as it is in inches. And at 200 its 24 MOA half of the 48 actual inches of bullet drop. Easy peasy now again do that in Mils without a program and you will be the first!

 

The only feeding not being done by anyone so far is how to do the simple math required to get to Mils from my two questions. No one can do it but yet its the EASIER scope method to use. I along with you can do MOA in my head with the two questions. Now which one is truly easier without a program in front of you or a buddy next to you telling you in Mils whats needed?

Looking back on this process, I should have asked each individual talking Mils being superior the specific questions to get an answer. Some even belittled those of us using MOA! Yes, tongue in cheek but belittled none the less.

By the way Milo, do you know the answer to my simple two questions? Can you do it on paper, you know the simple math method?

 

Here's one for you

Target at 324 yards. 85 degrees F. 28.32 baro pressure.

what's the MOA's?

 

Now,

256 yards. 38F. 28.92 baro.

What's the MOA's?

 

I am one of the few at these matches using FFP and MOA. It’s what I learned and what all my rifles have so I stick with it. I like the kestrel once it has the accurate confirmed data in it I don’t have to worry about a phone app not working from bad service or hot screen fading so light it’s hard to read. I can put the yds in and it spits out my MOA. Truthfully the best is the one you are familiar and more consistent with. It’s good to understand both too.