Shooting groups with a handgun is a completely different universe from shooting them with a rifle. My recommendation to you would be to use a real rifle bag as a barrel rest to test your pistols to make sure that they are capable of the accuracy that you are seeking before making the attempt offhand. Teaching many people including my kids to shoot over the last 30+ years, I have consistently told them that achieving precision accuracy with an offhand pistol takes about 4 to 5 times the amount of practice that it does with a rifle. Adding a small red dot sight such as a Burris FF3 might help you significantly.

I can shoot 1” groups at 25 with several of my pistols- but only from a rest.

DrGunner

 

Offhand, pistol of any sort with iron sights, my results aren't groups, they're patterns.
Put a red dot or EER scope on it, my results improve dramatically. If I can brace on something,
I can sometimes even hit the ten ring.

Put the scoped pistol on a rest or bipod, I can stay on paper out to 200 yards.

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11847817&postcount=1078

 

To get very good, dry firing is the quickest way to achieve goodness. Back when I was really good out of 5 shots 4 would be dry fire. What would be good for me? Putting 6 into a 3" bull at 15 yards. The skill is definitely perishable as that is much better then my current ability.

 

Yeah, but he's talking rimfire. I can see that with a centerfire pistol, but that's a great way to mess up a firing pin or peen part of the barrel dryfiring.

 

welcome

long guns and hand guns are different faces of the same coin.

But you need to look at each as similar but different. The concepts the same on shooting well, but you need to realize the pros and cons of each platform.

What did Quigley say about a handgun?

Also consider Sight Radius. Its sort of obvious here.

What i would do....

> find a place where you can shoot at a closer distance or various distances

> look at using a "target" where you can see it and get a proper acquisition. If your targets are blotted out by your front sight, then not much you can do other than adapt/change. Ive changed my method of doing things since i started to use a scope on my rifles. The scope i used would cover up the "target" so much so that i could not see if i was on target or to any side of that "target". if you cant see it, you cant hit it. That goes for ANY platform.

> Know your guns too. I try to adjust my guns for the 6 o clock hold.

> get a feel or idea on what your platform can do. If its a shotgun, then why chase that rabbit? but more important is that if you dont know its a shotgun, you will just keep on chasing your tail. IM sure you know of others that shoot (better or worse than you?). so if you can, have them put your gun(s) through its paces and get an idea on what each can do in someone else's hands.

> Rests and stuff can be good or bad. You will need to figure out what works best for you and your platform. Sometimes its putting the barrel on the rest and sometimes its your wrist/arm on the rest. Dont be afraid to TRY and SEE what works best for you and your platform.

Some comments..

> for the most part, most if not all of my handgun shooting is from a standing position. The closer range only offers that for the most part.

> what i also do is to notate the targets i shoot with the info such as...

- platform & S/n
- date
- distance
- ammo/brand/type/weight/velocity?
- shooting stance...info
- any other info...

Here are some of my center fire targets i had digitized.... Note the info on them.

this is for the XD45 5" bbl. i didnt have any "targets" with me that i wanted to use, so i improvised. the black dots are about 1 inch diameter. But you can get an idea on what i was doing and how good or bad it worked out. it was also standing, slow fire.

This target is for my Sphinx...the red sticky dot is 1 inch diameter. note the distance change. its also standing with slow fire.

the last one is my CZ SPo1. If you note i actually used the printed targets on the paper. what i noticed on my shooting that , black target, on black and black sights are sort of hard to see and is why i switched to red/orange dots. Again, this standing and shooting slow. i think the black bullseye is about 4 or 5 inches across.

And what i would do is to keep those targets so you can get an idea if you are improving or not. And then make any notes to yourself if there were any issues, like your eyes were "tired" or you were coming down with COVID and you were not feeling well...ect.

 

Pistol as others have said takes alot of discipline . Dry fire helps . Perhaps get some help from a master at your range even if you have to pay for the instruction . Find your natural point of aim and practice going into that stance every time you approach the firing line . Take caulk and mark your foot position to aid in coming back to that stance every time . Buy a set of velcro wrist weights that are close to the weight of your firearm and wear them daily to get used to the load for long periods . Focus drills on the sights help even with older eyes as well as a set of dedicated shooting glasses to focus on the front sight , your eye doc will help in that respect . I am no expert but it is surprising how much one can improve in a matter of weeks . Again get some instruction from someone who wins matches ,before you start so no bad form or techniques are practiced in before hand. Its alot easier to learn a good habit than to train out a bad one . Have fun with it , when you have a bad day don't press on , save the ammo for another day . Always write your thoughts on the target for later Critique . **** luck you will get there WR

 

Accurate handgun shooting takes a lot of practice and good eyesight. At 40 and even 50,IF I was shooting a lot, I could get 1"-1/2" groups at 25 yards with a 22 and do fairly well with a 38 and a 45. At 65 ,it's a lost cause [emoji16]
Also, a good semiauto will almost always shoot smaller groups than a revolver.

 

Hi Hector, a couple comments. First, don't forget to have fun. It's very easy to fall down the rabbit hole of seeking tight groups and forget why we're shooters to start with. Because it's fun!

Lots of good info from others below but if it were me I'd start with cheapo 9" paper plates. Use a black marker to put a sighting mark in the middle. Set them up at 12.5 yards and work on keeping all your shots on the paper plate. Start off the bench rested if need be and then work up to offhand. It won't take long assuming you can see the sights. If not, reflex sights (red dots) are a God send!

If you take your time and only judge yourself on your own progress I bet you'll see improvement quickly.

Cheers,

Frank

 

Two things: the aiming system for me has a dramatic effect on my handgun accuracy. I hate to mess up the nice lines of a pistol with a bulky red dot. . . but the results speak for themselves. Like the OP, I started shooting recently, about seven years ago. My club has its pistol range set up 15 yards to mimic their indoor facility, which is used for informal indoor matches in the winter. The second is how you support the pistol. Both matter considerably in terms of my accuracy on target.

Here's a target from last Thursday. The pistol is a Ruger Mk IV with a six-inch tapered barrel -- I guess it is a six-inch Standard. I got the barreled action only from Wirthwein so I could swap out the lower that has a good trigger with several different barrels.

The lower right bull is a pretty typical off-hand target with iron sights for me at that distance. Looks like about two-and-a-half inches at 15 yards. If I am really on my game with iron sights, I can do what I did on the upper right bull. Just around two inches offhand. That's pretty good for me off-hand with iron sights.

The lower left target shows the effect of a Y-style Hyskore rest. Seven out of 10 shots in about 3/4 of an inch, with the whole group at just over an inch. Here's another target with a different gun: a S&W 617. Not too impressive. Ammo is Federal Automatch in both cases. Iron sights in both cases too.

Now let's look at the effect of a red dot sight on my shooting at the same distance.

Instantly, you see the groups have tightened up considerably. This is with a 2-MOA tube-style red dot (AT3).

Finally, I have had a go at 50 yards with a Mk II Government Target that is very, very accurate. I shot it with a scope off bags. Looks to me to be about a two-inch group. I am going to try that set up again and see whether I can't do better. My conclusion is that it is possible to do well with a pistol at those ranges. At longer distance, the lower muzzle velocity out of the shorter barrel and the enlargement of very small movements of the firearm at distance make shooting pistols into small groups very challenging as you move out.

And really finally, the best five shot group I ever shot was with an Anschutz Exemplar at 50 yards. It is technically a bolt action pistol, but shoots like a bolt action rifle in my experience. I should get it out more often. It is scoped and shot off a BR front rest just like a rifle.

 

I like the paper plate idea and sticking with the 12.5ft. A few questions for your off hand pistol shooting:

1) How clearly can you see your front sight?
2) What kind of sights are they? I suspect they're standard all black post and notch. These can be more difficult to obtain a clear sight picture with older eyes.
3) How steady can you hold your sight picture as you squeeze off your shot?

If any one of these three is wonky, you're going to have a tough time making tight groups let along hitting within a 3 inch circle at 12.5 yards. I also like a 6-o'clock hold with post and notch iron sights because it also makes it easier for me to acquire the target.

I take my Ruger Single Six, equipped with Fire Sights, hunting small game - groundhogs, rabbits and, the toughest head shot to hit, especially with a pistol, the grey squirrel. These revolvers aren't reputed to be "target accurate" with .22lr. Okay, sure kid, if you can shoot Olympic level I guess you'd notice. But, for most of us, the equipment is way more accurate than we're capable of getting out of them. Anyway, if I keep the range 20 yards or under I can hit 'em in the head. But, it takes all my concentration, following all the steps, to be sure I'll execute an accurate shot. It isn't easy to do with a pistol because the slightest variations with such a short sight radius means a big miss.

 

One other thing.....


Instead of using a Round Bullseye as a target; make your own targets using a Black square, that is about 1.5" by 1.5". use a magic marker to make the square, than use a scanner to make multiple copies. the nice square shape will make lining up your front and rear square sights easier, both left to right, as well as up and down.

One of the Gun writers years ago, (might have been Ross Seyfried, I can't remember), gave this tip, and it is logically better than trying to line up square edged sights, on a round target.

 

When you are learning, don't put a target up at all. Put up the frame with a large cardboard backing and from your 12.5 yard practice good form just aiming at the center of that large background.

It takes lots of practice with handgun or rifle. I used this technique with archery as well and it works.

After you feel comfortable with your weapon choose the largest target you can find and aim dead center. When you can hit it consistently it's time to make the target smaller or increase your distance to target.

Good Luck.

Make sure you are having fun.

 

Hector, no shortage of advice, so far, and I'm sure much more to come. Let me just comment that what you are experiencing is totally normal. Mastering a handgun takes a much longer time than mastering a rifle and when you get there, it takes regular practice to stay in top form. Yes, it can be very frustrating to start, especially when you're on your own. Taking a class on handgun basics and marksmanship, if there is one in your area, can be very worthwhile. If nothing else, it will help you to avoid developing some bad habits.

 

At 65, I stated with a Taurus TX22 and shot only that for three months. When I did get a 10/22 TD, it took me a while to get relatively better with the rifle than the pistol.

Then I started practicing 3-5 times a day with a Daisy 880 BB gun at a distance that the BB gun was accurate to (not that far 25 yards). My rifle shooting improved tremendously and is now much better than my 22 pistol. So I am ordering an inexpensive Daisy 426 CO2 pistol so I can also practice 3-5 times a day with that discipline.

It was remarkable how much more comfortable I felt shooting offhand with the rifle after so much practice with the BB rifle. Hopefully the BB pistol will be the same way.

 

First off, glad to see you got in the shooting game. It can be a lot of fun.

Handguns are a different animal to rifles. Even on a bench, you can only get limited help from bags and such, and the shorter sight radius exaggerates things as compared to rifles. Triggers have greater impact as well, since that trigger finger is more likely to impact point of aim.

As for expectations.... you make them. Like most other things, some are naturals, some work very hard for any improvements.

With stock iron sights on my Mark II, 25 yard offhand shooting gets shaky. Groups are up greatly over 10 or 15 yard groups. Some of it is visions, some of it is me. With optics I could improve greatly I'm sure, as vision alone hurts me some as distances increase. It's not uncommon for groups to go up to 2- 2.5 times my short distance groups, but then again the distance went up my those factors as well.

Just keep at it. Find what works for you. Shorten distance or use larger targets, and as you improve, challenge yourself more. I tend to think that the "aim small, miss small" method works for me. I try to use targets that give me a good aiming point for the distance, and as someone mentioned above, good contrast with my sights.

Keep your targets, take notes, and more info is always better. Call your shots... if you know you let one fly when off target, it's better than being off target and not knowing. Data is your friend.

I'll see if I can dig up some 25 yard targets to find some groups. Nothing impressive from this same pistol as below. Mostly shooter probably.

These are 30 ft slowish and rapid fire. Differing targets, pistols, conditions, etc will change things quite a bit. If I could shoot like this at 25 yards with irons I'd be thrilled.... but I can't.

 

Hi Hector,

My pistol shooting is not the best. I usually shoot at 7 to 10 yards . I have two challenges. One is a hand tremor, the other is eyesight that doesn’t work well with iron sights. On a good day, I can keep most of my shots in a 2” group shooting offhand, but only if I use a red dot sight. Groups open up to 3-5” with iron sights. I just can’t see them.

I’m shooting a Ruger Mark IV Hunter with the 7” barrel and a vortex venom red dot.

Before my tremors started and my eyes were good, my SW 41 grouped the best for me at 1” at those distances . It was very accurate but it had very poor metallurgy . Some guys have had better luck with them than me.

I know this isn’t great shooting by the standards of many, but it’s a lot better than I used to shoot, and I have fun with it.

FWIW, I’d bet you’d get pretty consistent with 1/2” at 50 yards with a rifle if you got a nice front benchrest and rear bag set up. Guys here got me to do it and it really makes bench shooting a joy.

Good luck and have fun!

 

Seldom is it a lack of accuracy with modern handguns. I can put ten shots in an inch at 50 yards using a 6" S&W 617 fitted with a Vortex Venom 3 mil red dot site (the ammo was run through a Waltz die) when shooting from a good rest. Off hand I can hit a 4" metal disk about 50% of the time from 50 yards using a two hand hold. It takes a lot of practice to be effective with a handgun but well worth the time.

 

Hey Hecktor:

You want to shoot good shots with a pistol?

Lots of advice already posted, most of it very good too!

Best advice? Download the USMC pistol workbook. It is free online as a pdf. The Marines have a good history of taking average people and making good pistol shots out of them. Of course they use a big monster angry drill sergeant as a motivation tool Begin with the five fundamentals in the first half of the book. The second half will not make any sense so do not put much attention to it.

Download, print, or purchase some bullseye targets to shoot at. Concentrate on the five fundamentals. Have fun, if it becomes a chore, go home try again tomorrow.

Even better advice? Find your local bullseye team. They will welcome you with open arms and you will have more opportunities to have fun and learn this fascinating sport. Don't worry about being good enough for the team, usually only the top handful of shooters count for the team score and the emphasis is on having fun and the participation. We have all been where you are now and we are so passionate about the sport that we encourage others to join.

Regards,
Crankster

 

1" at 10 yards would make me happy, shooting a pistol offhand (2 hands) with iron sights. 3 or 4 inches at 25 yards.

Here are some sample 10-yard groups. The pistol is a Ruger MKIII with an 8" Tactical Solutions barrel and iron sights. I have cataracts in my right eye and was experimenting with grip shapes to shoot better with my left eye. I also use my middle finger on the trigger, which affects the grip shape. The gun looks more dignified now.

For every group like those, I have many which were not worth taking pictures of. Here's another one I'm happy with.

I was younger when I shot these (72) and probably can't do it any more.

 

If you really want good groups, put a scope on your pistol and shoot from a rest but IMO if you're going to shoot it like a rifle, shoot a rifle. You can't deny the advantage of magnifying the target but I don't like the extra weight on the pistol. As for a red dot, I don't see any advantage unless you're speed-shooting but if you can't focus on the sights, I guess that's what you have to do. There's a great deal of satisfaction when someone says "You did THAT? With a .22 pistol? With iron sights?" I sometimes say that to myself.

If you want to shoot good 25-yard groups, start by shooting good groups at 12.5 yards. If you can't see where every shot goes as you shoot it, you're not learning much. Get some of those high-visibility targets. Maybe 3" or 4" stick-on bullseyes. Use a 6 o'clock hold so you can see the target and if that makes your groups low - that's OK. You're shooting groups, not for score.

Sight Picture has only been mentioned once so far but it's nearly everything when you're shooting iron sights. Focus on the front sight, let the target blur and be fanatical about keeping the alignment of front and rear sights. The gun will wobble around but your shot will still go parallel to the line to the target. If the alignment of the sights shifts from that perfect sight picture, your shot will go at an angle. If the front sight is on the target and sight alignment is not perfect, the one place the shot will NOT go is where the front sight is pointing.

 

Uh....no one is shooting 1" groups at 25 yards with a pistol. No one.

Elements to pistol shooting from the ground up

-Stance
-Grip
-Sight Alignment
-Sight Picture
-Trigger control
-Follow through
-Reset
-Breath control

There are a lot of factors with each of the above. Once you master them all you'll be good to go

 

I like what you did with your grips. Years ago I had to do the same thing when shooting my bow. I had to switch to left hand and used Bondo to get the grip right for me.

MAC66 has the right idea of what you need to work on. It's a long haul but with practice can be done.

I went from shooting 300s in archer to the low 260 but was back at 300 in less then a year so trust me it can be done.

 

I have a couple Ruger MKIII LITE pistols, because visitors think they do better with a low weight pistol.

For me, a heavy hand gun has always been the answer to "MY" accuracy question.

S&W 629 with an 8 3/8" barrel,, S&W 617 with a 6" barrel,, Ruger MKIII Hunter, and now my heaviest rimfire handgun that I have ever owned,,

a Volquartsen LLV all stainless upper with a stainless muzzle break, on a Ruger MKII frame.

There are a LOT of "TYPES" of shooting I do not do,, my interest is in being to be able to hit a bunny/squirrel sized target out to 100 yards.

My big handguns can do that,, pretty repeatedly,,

I have not "hunted" animals in decades, other than groundhogs,, so my interest is purely the satisfaction of knowing that I can do it,,

Try a heavy gun, maybe even 2 pounds heavier than what you shoot today,,

How come all the collectable rimfire pistols we see on the forum have bolt on weights??

I wonder if I can get a set of DU grips for my Ruger MKII pistol?/ :bthumb:

 

Some people just cannot do it with a handgun. I have a cousin,m well more than one cousin, but one of my cousins was raised like me, and there were guns in the house before he was born. He can shoot a rifle well, but cannot hit the broad side of a barn with any handgun. I can take the same gun he had trouble hitting a extra large pizza box with, and I could put 5 shots in a wad the size of a quarter. He shoots rifles excellent off a rest, but cannot shoot as well as me offhand with a .22lr rifle. I practice and he does not. The thing to do, is find a gun that shoots the best groups for you, and practice. Not every gun fits the hand the same. I hate Glocks, and the grip angle is unnatural. I like a handgun I can close my eyes, point it out in front of me, open my eyes and be looking right down the sights. Revolvers are a different animal, but semi autos, get the gun that FITS you.

Ruger MK series
S&W Victory
Buckmark

All accurate pistols.

 

Some people just cannot do it with a handgun.

He can shoot a rifle well, but cannot hit the broad side of a barn with any handgun.

Revolvers are a different animal,

20 years ago, I was taking a gunsmithing class, and had improved the trigger on a Smith Model 629,,

I then found a S&W Model 629 four inch barrel, that looked like it had been drug behind a truck for a couple months,,
it was being carried around a gun show by an individual, I purchased it C H E A P !!
(how could a gun get that beat up? )

Well, anyways, I bought it, and after removing all the exterior damage, I improved the trigger like I had done mine.

I gave the gun to my brother for a Christmas present, he said he did not want it,,,
He was a great shot with a shotgun, and even pretty good with a rifle,

Well, he said that, because, he could never hit anything with a hand gun,,
I told him to take it outside, and try the 629, before deciding that he was gonna leave it,,

He aimed the gun at a soda can at about 10 yards, the can went flying,,

All six shots hit the can,,
He has had that gun for 20 years,, and likes to show off when he is at "hunting camp",,

I never get credit for the trigger work that I did on the gun,,, ` ~ ,

That is what brothers are for,, :bthumb: I do not think he will ever let go of that 629,,

 

The secret to shooting well with a pistol is everything the same and adjust sights as needed. Get a grip that is tight but not overly so. A grip that is consistent day to day, week to week. Practice placing the gun in your hand with the other hand until it feels right. The barrel of the pistol should align with the bones in your arm. The recoil should go right back into those bones. The point is consistency. Next get 2 handball balls. Grip one ball in your firing hand compressing the ball with your middle 2 fingers. Holding that ball compressed, place the second ball above the first and squeeze that ball with your finger pad against the web of hand and thumb. You are practicing holding the pistol steady and pushing trigger. Do it watching TV, driving and other times. There should be very little pressure exerted with your little finger ever. The other hand should be used to support and steady the pistol.

Sight alignment is next. Consistency is key once again. The same distance on each side of the front sight as seen through the rear sight. The top of front sight exactly aligned with top of rear sight. I choose to adjust the sights such that point of impact is exactly on top of the center of an aligned front sight. Other people choose slightly different alignment schemes.

Build up your strength and practice with the same ammunition. If your eyesight is a problem get a red dot and forget iron sights.

 

A general rule of thumb is that a good handgun with ammo it likes should hold a 2" group at 25 yards. Lots of variables when it comes to shooter's technique, as mentioned in posts above. First thing, as mentioned in a prior post, is "Can you see the front sight clearly?" With a handgun, you focus on the front sight, and the target and rear sight are a little blurry. Aging eyes can have a tough time focusing on the front sight. There are optical aids one can but to put on the shooter's eyeglasses. Adding an aperture to one's shooting glasses helps one to see the front sight crisply. There are various apertures on the market. One of long duration is the Merit Optical.

Here is a link to aperture offerings and info:

https://www.bing.com/search?q=apert...res+for+shooting+glasses&sk=PRES1&sc=1-30&cvid=68e1d19274f542f995257b783cd85be0