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Is the .22LR suitable for self defense

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21K views 126 replies 45 participants last post by  Al the Infidel  
#1 ·
#2 ·
“No more or less, than better than nothing” :eek:

In a pistol , I agree, just better than nothing. Slightly better than an unloaded gun. But in a rifle, especially a semi auto, I’d take a 1022 all day over most carry pistols . The NRA article limited self defense to CCW.

All a pistol is for is a get off of me response or get away from me response. A 22 will work , a 25 will work, a 32 will work etc.

But if someone is shooting at you from more than 25 yards away , you need a rifle to defend yourself. And while bigger is always better, A 1022 will do the job , unless they are more than 100 yards away, which then allows you your best defense, run away!
 
#3 ·
Okay, who's bringing the popcorn on this one?

Big drawback on .22 for SD is the fact that rimfire ignition is not as dependable as centerfire. .25 has about the same ballistics as .22 LR, so I did move up another notch and carry .32 ACP.

I get flamed a lot for that, but I don't care. Most people consider .380 as the rock bottom choice, but .380 gives only a slight improvement in ballistics, at a cost of nearly double the recoil of .32.
 
#13 ·
Favorite Sandwich ?

Okay, who's bringing the popcorn on this one?

Big drawback on .22 for SD is the fact that rimfire ignition is not as dependable as centerfire. .25 has about the same ballistics as .22 LR, so I did move up another notch and carry .32 ACP.

I get flamed a lot for that, but I don't care. Most people consider .380 as the rock bottom choice, but .380 gives only a slight improvement in ballistics, at a cost of nearly double the recoil of .32.
A locked breech gun in 380 has far less "recoil" than a 32 using straight blowback . Witness the Spanish Llama , or the CZ27 and CZ24 . Compare a Remington 51 with a Browning 1910/1955 . :D:gun4:
 
#4 ·
I have read many "discussions" on the pros and cons, stopping power, shot placement, etc. Low report and muzzle flash could be a definite plus. I personally handload 9mm and .38 Spl. using light bullets and low flash powder, and consider them the smallest caliber I would use to defend myself and loved ones. The purpose of self defense is to stop the situation immediately.
 
#5 · (Edited)
#6 ·
Good 22 ammo , really doesn’t have that problem today. But like any ammo can go bad if it sits around in an oily gun . I once had a revolver with 6 rounds of nice nickel plated 357 ammo go click 6 times, it had just sat in the safe too long. The rest of the Box was fine, but somehow these went bad. Back in the days when I thought oil was best applied liberally. Now-no more loaded guns in the safe. And my sd ammo gets shot once a week at the range and the mag gets reloaded.

And I’d like a 32 acp. Saw a guardian the other day, but looking for a seecamp. Right now my LCP in 380 fills the pocket gun niche.

I like little guns, but on the coffee table, not in a dark alley:eek:
 
#7 · (Edited)
I typically carry a .380, with FMJ. Not great like a 9mm, .40, or .45, but properly placed, gets the job done should it ever (hopefully never) comes to that. The mere presence of a gun (in my case a .380), I doubt any BG is going to debate whether it is a .380, 9mm Luger, .40, or .45: it is a gun with a fairly big hole at the end pointing at me.

Cancer and big weight/power-loss makes the .380 my choice, It is a Bersa Thunder: hefty enough to crack a skull if it came to that, small enough to fit in my back pocket. Hefty enough to where I can practice all day without having to go to a chiropractor the next day. For my 5'10 130# weakened body, it is just right.

I have a matching Bersa Thunder .22 and, loaded with Stingers or Velocitors, I would also feel comfortable with (plus it carries an extra two rounds). Not my preferred CCW, but will do the job should I ever need it (just need to aim higher after the first few rounds should they not stop the threat).

Reliability is the prime factor, and that is almost equal in terms of weapon versus ammo. I only use CCI, as it is the most reliable to me: in almost 40 years of shooting, I have had ONE FTF with CCI; zero with any center-fire cartridges.

My wife's bedside gun is a Single Six in .22WMR. I'm comfortable with that, as it is about a big as she can handle with her medical issues. And she is a dead-eye with it!

In short, a .22 - well practiced in - is far better than nothing at all. Practice misfires, and learn to empty the mag (if semi-auto) before a BG gets to you - lest it be used on you or someone else. COM at first and work your way up to a head/neck shot or two, and a .22 (particularly a .22WMR or a Stinger/Velocitor) will suffice. Carrying a spare mag typically gives you 20+1. If that many hits doesn't do the job, it is unlikely a larger caliber will with half the shots.

As they say, a .22 in your hand is better than nothing...or something better, but at home...
 
#10 ·
I'm also in the camp of 'not reliable enough'.
We have a total of six .22 in our family...couple of bolt actions, couple of semi-autos and a couple of semi-auto handguns.
No matter what ammo we have ALL OF THEM HAVE THE OCCASIONAL FAILURE TO FIRE.
We have four centerfires...three rifle and a handgun. In probably 5000 rounds total in the centerfires we have had ONE failure to fire.
 
#12 ·
I say yes to this question all the time but with a couple of must haves all the time. First, you must insure that the ammo you use be something reliable and the top tier type used in competitive fields like Eley, Lapua, and such. Secondly that you must practice, practice, practice and than practice more for surgical precision.

Many of us in the shooting community fail to realize that amongst us are people with limited physical abilities or debilitating medical conditions that make it impossible and extremely painful to shoot a firearm with larger calibers.

Speaking of larger calibers, what good is a larger caliber if the recoil is so great that you miss your target. The larger calibers offer many people a sense of security that is not present especially if you practice very little because the ammo is too expensive and you do not reload or the recoil makes it unpleasant to shoot.

I normally carry a 1911 or a .357 and was surprised the other day when I shot my sisters 642 airweight revolver she carries. I missed the target at 9 feet. The gun was painful to shoot and its only a .38...wow...was I surprised to miss at that distance, and the recoils was worse than my .357 cal. 686 revolver I carry.
 
#17 ·
When it was the only pistol I had I kept my 22/45 target (with red dot) on the nightstand.
I'd only use it inside the apartment, the red dot is great for low light conditions, the 5.5" barrel gives decent velocity and a mag dump into the villains' head is bound to (at least) slow him down.
I've since replaced it with a 10mm 1911. Better safe than sorry?
 
#19 ·
When it was the only pistol I had I kept my 22/45 target (with red dot) on the nightstand.
This is a great answer as to when is the .22 suitable for self defense. It's suitable when you don't have anything else. For me a 9mm is about the smallest caliber I feel comfortable with for self defense. Anyone who can't handle the recoil of a 9mm hasn't shot enough to be safely carrying any firearm.
 
#21 ·
I agree that many of us use or have used the 22 LR as a "trail gun" when there is no chance of running into a bear, but obviously we know there are many factors determining which gun you may carry at a given time. 22LR would certainly deter most people from mischief. A determined meth head might be a problem to stop with a 22 but likely that's just a fantasy. Most potential attackers are going to turn tail and run without a shot being fired if they see their intended victim has a gun. While tiny CCW guns will be the least effective, a typical trail gun will have much higher muzzle velocities due to longer barrel lengths and will have the accuracy to make hits out to 50 yards. No 25 is going to do that! While a 22 magnum might give significantly more oomph than 22 LR, the blast is going to be significant. For anyone who was wanting more than a 22 LR in a trail gun sized package, the 32 S&W Long is a huge improvement over 22LR with a mild report, but the 32 Magnum suitably hand loaded and to a lesser extent 327 Federal are wonderful dual purpose chamberings that can serve for trail gun use while providing enough stopping power to be respectable self defense cartridges. The biggest problem with them however is they need to be reloaded to really take advantage of the flexibility of the chambering. So while a 22 LR is better than nothing, 32 magnum is a wonderful alternative to 22 for trail use. rc
 
#22 · (Edited)
I'm the one who started the thread. Not necessarily to start a war but just for more info on the topic. I think the the best line is the "it's better than nothing".

And yes locally a gentleman did shoot a bear that broke in his bedroom with a .22LR. As a youth I spent a little time at an abattoir. They used .22 shorts to kill both cattle and pigs. With the cattle they put the rifle against the head and pulled the trigger. On the pigs they let the pigs walk around and shot them at random again in the head. I don't know it it really killed them or just knocked them out long enough to string them up and slit their throats.

My instructor says "If it doesn't start with a 4 it shouldn't be used for defense. But he is an X Army ranger and is a big guy and of course carries a 45. I "think" if you are an professional assassin a .22LR is a probable choice and someone who is an expert shot can get away with one. Between my wife and I, we have three 40s but she can't handle that caliber very well so she carries a 9MM.

As an aside, I have been involved with a free public range since 2004 and collect the brass weekly (up to 1500 pounds/year). In the early days the "large" caliber pistol brass was mostly 45s and 40s with a few 9MM mixed in. Today there are a few 45s and 40s but the predominate pistol brass is 9MM and quite a few 380s.

In the end I still believe "if you have nothing else" is right. But I will continue to have a 40 next to my bed, a 40 in the drawer next to my chair and a 40 in my hostler when I leave the house. And yes we do own two .22LR pistols. I sort of believe the same thing when I ride my motorcycle. If you have a $10.00 head then buy a $10.00 helmet. It's better to be protected well than to hope you are protected. BTW, my rifle of choice for home defense is the dreaded "assault rifle" and yes I do have 3 .22LR rifles.
 
#23 ·
Although it's better than shooting rubber bands, a .22 for home defense reminds me of the articles you see once in a while about all the virtues of using a .410 on pheasant - a stilted rationalization for living on the fringe sportsmanship or, in this case, defense of family. Buck up. Use enough gun.
 
#24 ·
The thing about incapacitating animals with a 22 is most inexperienced people want to shoot them between the eyes. That is cruel and ineffective. You are just shooting them in the sinus cavity and throat. The brain on most animals looking at you is actually about 2 inches above the eyes in the middle of the forehead. A brain shot is a killing shot and will incapacitate permanently. But the animal may remain dangerous if it's still kicking. 22 magnum is preferred by many butchers for the added penetration on the big thick headed bulls. Now on a smaller cow 22 LR is plenty but sometimes due to poor shot placement and limited damage the continued kicking may warrant another shot with the 22 LR. More powerful calibers seldom need a second shot and never a third. Some people use handguns to butcher animals. A 380 has plenty of penetration to kill any animal with proper shot placement. A 9mm, 38, 357 etc will strike the brain with even more authority and there is faster death due to quicker blood loss. If you have seen what a 22 can do to a huge animal, you know it can get the job done for self defense if proper shot placement is achieved. When you see it fail, you also know its limitations. rc
 
#25 ·
You all decide if it's suitable for self defense. Working in a level 1 trauma center for decades I already know the answer, you decide. Here's a link of someone shooting a 22lr at 300 yards and how far it penetrates in a gel block wrapped in denim.
 
#27 ·
I think everyone knows you can kill someone with a .22lr, or at least I hope they do...... I'm sure with a well placed shot you could also kill just about any big game in the world. That being said how many big game hunters do you think go out with their .22 rifles on a hunt??? Yeah a hitman's weapon of choice may be a .22, but that has nothing to do with self defense. They use it because they're not using it as a defensive weapon. They use it because they can walk up behind someone without them knowing, pull the trigger, and walk away without making a big bang that draws attention. Everyone thinks in a self defense situation that they're going to be nice and calm and have all the time in the world to line up a perfect headshot. In reality that's probably not the way it's going to happen. If someone wants to use a .22lr for self defense then by all means they can. But if you have other means (larger caliber) then you should probably use it. How many police departments issue their officers .22lr handguns?
 
#28 ·
I've read this argument for years. I'm 76 years old and carry whenever I'm not headed to the local Air Force Base. The thing missing in all these discussions is a definition of the particular self defense situation.

First, my goal is to escape any situation with my wife and me in good condition, not to have a shootout with the threat. Where do we go where we might come under assault? Well, Walmart, gas station, stop light, and maybe some of the restaurants we prefer. None of these situations will likely require engaging a bad guy at 25 yards. My belief is that most likely any situation will come about at distances less that 10 yards, and most likely less than 5 yards.

Second, who do I expect the bad guy to be? I don't expect some hardened criminal out to make sure I am going to die. I expect any situation I might find myself in would involved would be with someone taking advantage of an old couple by snatching a purse, car jacking, or petty theft. With this in mind, I believe the bang and the flash play a significant part in the equation. (and yes I've be ridiculed for years for this belief)

A handgun in .22 or .25 is sufficient in the situation described to make sure we can escape danger. Again, my goal isn't to kill the bad guy or stand and fight, but to escape.

Now, for home defense where concealment of the firearm isn't a problem, I see no downside to something bigger be it a coach length double barreled shotgun, large caliber handgun, or other long gun. But luckily I don't live where that is near as likely as an encounter in the Walmart parking lot.
 
#29 ·
First, my goal is to escape any situation with my wife and me in good condition, not to have a shootout with the threat. Where do we go where we might come under assault? Well, Walmart, gas station, stop light, and maybe some of the restaurants we prefer. who do I expect the bad guy to be? I don't expect some hardened criminal out to make sure I am going to die. I expect any situation I might find myself in would involved would be with someone taking advantage of an old couple by snatching a purse, car jacking, or petty theft. With this in mind, I believe the bang and the flash play a significant part in the equation. (and yes I've be ridiculed for years for this belief)

A handgun in .22 or .25 is sufficient in the situation described to make sure we can escape danger. Again, my goal isn't to kill the bad guy or stand and fight, but to escape.
In a perfect world you may be able to predict what the situation will be if you ever come under threat (actually in a perfect world it would never happen). The problem is most people never expect to have to use a firearm in self defense, never mind know what the situation will be. And most of the time the sight or sound of a firearm probably is enough to send a bad guy running. But how do you predict a situation where someone is hell bent on taking lives? What if your sitting in your favorite restaurant and some maniac comes in and starts executing people? I realize that this is an extreme case but it's also one that can and has happened in the past. Or your walking down a city Street and some junky that's high on pcp decides he wants to rob you or worse. Unfortunately things like this happen all the time. I do my best to try to keep myself out of any situation where I think a problem could arise, but unfortunately I'm no psychic.
 
#32 ·
I go with the adage that any firearm is better than none at all. I haven't every heard anybody say they wouldn't mind being shot with a .22. I also believe as more people carry concealed, there is a little more reticence by the snatch and grab thief.

I also believe that a firearm with no round in the chamber is a very poor rock.

I carry an LCP with .380 defensive ammo. My vehicle gun is a 9 mm R51. My bed stand gun is a S&W.40 cal. The noise and flash will probably stun everybody.

My desk gun is a 9mm. The first weapon of choice in my safe is a Colt M4. The magazine is not in it, but readily available. I have a KelTec Sub2000 Gen 2, 9 mm inside my gun closet. All I need to do is strike the charging handle and it is good to go.

The number of home invasions and night time withdrawals seems to be going out of style here in the metro Atlanta area. More door crashers are getting shot. A would be sneak thief broke a window trying to break into a house in a south Atlanta suburb last night. The noise woke up the home owner and after the smoke cleared, the home owner called the police. The intruder will not be intruding any more.

VH :eek:man:
 
#34 ·
I would mount an enthusiastic defense if all I had was a handgun chambered for .22 Long Rifle cartridge, but my comfort level begins with the 158 grain semi-wadcutter in the .38 Special and extends up through the .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, 10mm, and non-magnum .44 and .45 caliber revolvers and automatics.
 
#35 · (Edited)
I know I'm going to repeat some things that have already been said, that I'm not going to change anyone's mind about anything and that I'm really doing this just for me but I'm going to try to distill this down a bit.

(1) If you live/work in an area where you feel at risk, or if you go into such an area for whatever reason, or you are very risk averse no matter where you are, carry a handgun if at all legally possible.

(2) Be sure the gun is one with which you are very familiar and with which you can shoot as accurately as the situation allows. Both of those happen only if you have practiced extensively with your weapon, under as many different scenarios as possible.

(3) Make that handgun the largest caliber you can safely and comfortably handle. If you flinch (or even drop the gun!) because of recoil or can't physically rack the slide or pull the trigger, the gun is of no use to you.

(4) Some calibers will be more effective than others in doing what needs to be done but any caliber is better than none at all. In some situations, shot placement can make up for deficiencies in caliber; in some situations, even the largest caliber will not suffice. Only you can decide how likely it is that you will encounter any given situation.

(5) Everyone has their own idea of what caliber weapon to carry for self-defense and telling someone else that their choice is deficient or overkill will probably accomplish nothing.
 
#36 ·
You wouldn’t think so, but violent crime is down, less now than before, but way more media than ever, so mass hysteria is on a roll! Unless you live in or frequent an inner city urban free fire zone your chances of needing a self defense weapon are at an all time low. Lots of things to attribute this decline to, but I believe it is due to the resurgence of ccw. Thank you mass hysteria! With so many more of us armed, the criminals know that it’s more likely than ever that they will encounter a victim who will present a firearm in response. Thank you mass media! As to defense against mass murders, a hand gun isn’t going to be much use against an ak 47 or an ar 15 , no matter what the caliber, unless you devote your entire life to constant tactical training, which most of us aren’t going to do, me included. So I just go by the adage don’t go anywhere with a gun that you wouldn’t without one, and always go with one! Don’t leave home without it! If a 22lr is what you think will do the job, then that’s on you. It probably will, I just like to stack the odds in my favor whenever I can. So for me a bigger caliber is better. And like they say a pistol is only so you can fight your way to your rifle. :bthumb:
 
#39 ·
Here's my two cents, and you're getting what you paid for.

ALL handgun calibers are inadequate for self defense. Handguns are a compromise, because we don't want to carry rifles, and it's generally frowned upon to carry grenades.

There is little evidence that any one caliber is much better than another. This is the major reason that most police departments are getting away from the foutay short and weak, and going back to the 9mm. More rapid follow up shots are more important than caliber.

.22LR will, and has killed people dead.

If you want to carry a .22LR, more power to you. The gun you have on you is better than the gun you leave at home. Don't think for a minute that you are under gunned. With proper shot placement, and multiple hits, that .22 is wicked.


As for myself.

I carry whatever strikes my fancy that morning.
But

When I don't want to carry a gun, I carry my little NAA .22LR with five CCI Stingers.
The one time I was GLAD to have it, I was wishing it was bigger, but at least I was not unarmed.