All the replies on the "cool picture" thread got me thinking. Is there an audiologist among us that could shed some light on this? Anyone know how many decibels a .22 lr standard velocity out of an 18.5" barrel is? Honestly, my 10/22 isn't really loud. I don't think there is much of a danger of hearing loss due to 10/22 firing. Maybe if I fired a few bricks a day everyday. However, I could be wrong. How many people here think hearing protection is really necessary when shooting their 10/22? I'm not trying to promote bad safety practices, just curious. I always wear hearing protection when firing pistols and other long guns, but I usually don't for .22 rifles.
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I can't remember where I found it, but I stubled across a test some company was doing with suppressors (silencers). Since they were an employer, they had to follow OSHA's standard of 130dbA in the workplace or less, and/or provide hearing protection. Since part of their job was to hunt deer to thin the herd, they relied on large rifles. They felt the need to silence their tools was of benefit. On to the test...
They found that suppressors were able to deaden the sound by about half on the large rifles (into the under-130 range), but did little to nothing on the little .22's they also tested. Strangely, the .22's didn't really need one to begin with, as determined by the standards of their testing. That mirrors my thoughts - it's only a .22 guys, use your head with what you can get away with. I'd rather be intelligently negligent, than ignorantly ingrained.
If I find that article again, I'll post a link to it.
They found that suppressors were able to deaden the sound by about half on the large rifles (into the under-130 range), but did little to nothing on the little .22's they also tested. Strangely, the .22's didn't really need one to begin with, as determined by the standards of their testing. That mirrors my thoughts - it's only a .22 guys, use your head with what you can get away with. I'd rather be intelligently negligent, than ignorantly ingrained.
If I find that article again, I'll post a link to it.
I can't shoot anything without hearing protection anymore. Even my 16" barreled 10/22s are too loud for me and will actually make my ears ring after just 2 magazines... not to mention .22 pistols! There's NO WAY I can fire those comfortably without hearing protection! :1t
But then I generally used to hear things before my dogs did, so that just might be an indication of "overly sensetive" hearing on my part.
I wear plugs or muffs if I'm shooting anything louder than Aguila Super Colibri!
FWIW! - Dakotan
But then I generally used to hear things before my dogs did, so that just might be an indication of "overly sensetive" hearing on my part.
I wear plugs or muffs if I'm shooting anything louder than Aguila Super Colibri!
FWIW!
- Dakotan
As stated above, hearing loss is cumulative. You may not think your hearing is being damaged, but sometime down the road you will realize it and it will be too late.
I ALWAYS use hearing protection when shooting ANY firearm, including my .22s.
My hearing is too valuable to me to risk.
Good Shooting!
I ALWAYS use hearing protection when shooting ANY firearm, including my .22s.
My hearing is too valuable to me to risk.
Good Shooting!
I copied this article from Sports Afield:
WHEN PARTICIPANTS AT AN NRA CONVENTION were given electronic audio exams, nearly 50 percent of those tested had some level of hearing loss. This survey included young and old, casual and frequent shooters.
"Even shooting a .22 rifle, which many people don't think is bad, is bad," says audiologist Garry G. Gordon. Gordon's company, E.A.R. (Environmental Acoustical Research), Inc., specializes in hearing-protection products.
"Depending on the length of the barrel and the size of the cartridge," says Gordon, "the .22's noise level comes in around 140 decibels, which approaches the threshold of pain. Eighty-five to 90 decibels is where hearing damage is a concern."
And .22s are at the low end of the firearm noise scale. According to Gordon, "Every time you go up three decibels, you've got a doubling effect, because it's a logarithmic figure. So when you get into shotguns, at 156 dB, you're way up there where it's dangerous. With muzzle brakes on rifles, some of the numbers come in around 170 dB."
For more perspective on the sheer noise level of exploding gunpowder, note that the boom from a .44 Magnum, at 164 dB, is louder than a sandblaster (115 dB), an ambulance siren (120 dB), a jackhammer (130 dB), and even a rocket blastoff (140 dB)! According to research scientist Dr. William Clark, of the Noise Laboratory in St. Louis, the damage caused by one shot from a .357 Magnum pistol, which exposes the shooter to 165 dB for two milliseconds, is equivalent to more than 40 hours in a noisy workplace. Proof that it's time to take firearm blasts-and other potentially damaging sounds---seriously.
Contrary to what many people think, the effects of acoustic trauma don't simply "get better" or self-repair over time. Actually, the reverse is true.
"Hearing damage is a gradual process in most cases," says Gordon. "It accumulates. A lot of people aren't aware of it at first, because initial loss is in the high frequencies that don't contribute much to speech. Later on it does move gradually into the critical speech range. But even at that point many don't realize that they're compensating for hearing loss in various ways, such as partial lipreading."
According to Gordon, self-- protection isn't difficult. "You can protect your hearing very adequately with items costing as little as 15 to 20 cents. Simple foam earplugs will work, if you use them correctly. We see people on the shooting range with their earplugs hanging half out. They're not getting full protection. If the plug is halfway out, it's because it's too large for the ear canal. This often occurs when adults try to use their earplugs on children."
Some other hearing-protection options include ear putty, which can be formed to fit snugly into any ear canal; earmuffs; molded silicone plugs custom-made for individuals; and so-called electronic ear plugs, more accurately known as "assisted-listening devices," like Gordon's "SoundScopes," which use ingenious technology to actually enhance hearing via volume control while simultaneously providing protection against gun noise.
"There are so many choices out there now," says Gordon. "Just don't go out without any hearing protection. Once you lose it, it's not coming back."
Copyright Sports Afield, Inc. Aug 2001
WHEN PARTICIPANTS AT AN NRA CONVENTION were given electronic audio exams, nearly 50 percent of those tested had some level of hearing loss. This survey included young and old, casual and frequent shooters.
"Even shooting a .22 rifle, which many people don't think is bad, is bad," says audiologist Garry G. Gordon. Gordon's company, E.A.R. (Environmental Acoustical Research), Inc., specializes in hearing-protection products.
"Depending on the length of the barrel and the size of the cartridge," says Gordon, "the .22's noise level comes in around 140 decibels, which approaches the threshold of pain. Eighty-five to 90 decibels is where hearing damage is a concern."
And .22s are at the low end of the firearm noise scale. According to Gordon, "Every time you go up three decibels, you've got a doubling effect, because it's a logarithmic figure. So when you get into shotguns, at 156 dB, you're way up there where it's dangerous. With muzzle brakes on rifles, some of the numbers come in around 170 dB."
For more perspective on the sheer noise level of exploding gunpowder, note that the boom from a .44 Magnum, at 164 dB, is louder than a sandblaster (115 dB), an ambulance siren (120 dB), a jackhammer (130 dB), and even a rocket blastoff (140 dB)! According to research scientist Dr. William Clark, of the Noise Laboratory in St. Louis, the damage caused by one shot from a .357 Magnum pistol, which exposes the shooter to 165 dB for two milliseconds, is equivalent to more than 40 hours in a noisy workplace. Proof that it's time to take firearm blasts-and other potentially damaging sounds---seriously.
Contrary to what many people think, the effects of acoustic trauma don't simply "get better" or self-repair over time. Actually, the reverse is true.
"Hearing damage is a gradual process in most cases," says Gordon. "It accumulates. A lot of people aren't aware of it at first, because initial loss is in the high frequencies that don't contribute much to speech. Later on it does move gradually into the critical speech range. But even at that point many don't realize that they're compensating for hearing loss in various ways, such as partial lipreading."
According to Gordon, self-- protection isn't difficult. "You can protect your hearing very adequately with items costing as little as 15 to 20 cents. Simple foam earplugs will work, if you use them correctly. We see people on the shooting range with their earplugs hanging half out. They're not getting full protection. If the plug is halfway out, it's because it's too large for the ear canal. This often occurs when adults try to use their earplugs on children."
Some other hearing-protection options include ear putty, which can be formed to fit snugly into any ear canal; earmuffs; molded silicone plugs custom-made for individuals; and so-called electronic ear plugs, more accurately known as "assisted-listening devices," like Gordon's "SoundScopes," which use ingenious technology to actually enhance hearing via volume control while simultaneously providing protection against gun noise.
"There are so many choices out there now," says Gordon. "Just don't go out without any hearing protection. Once you lose it, it's not coming back."
Copyright Sports Afield, Inc. Aug 2001
Good post
Great detailed information! I've had to research some of the OSHA regs on work place sound levels for my job and they fall right in line with your reported information. I've lost much of my hearing from industrial and agricultural work in years past and I have no idea how many rifle and shotgun reports added to it. For you that still have a good amount left: wear some ear protection :1t ... it won't grow back no matter what you might try to encourage it with. :sad:
Again thanks for a great post. :t
Great detailed information! I've had to research some of the OSHA regs on work place sound levels for my job and they fall right in line with your reported information. I've lost much of my hearing from industrial and agricultural work in years past and I have no idea how many rifle and shotgun reports added to it. For you that still have a good amount left: wear some ear protection :1t ... it won't grow back no matter what you might try to encourage it with. :sad:
Again thanks for a great post. :t
gsonnenmd's GOOD POST sometimes I have to holler to hear myself. I did untold amount of damage to my hearing as a young teenager shooting a Remington Rand 1911A1 my uncle had. Now at 53 it has caught up. Even though I started using hearing protection whenever I shot on the range at practice and bullseye matches from my early 20's. I don't usually use protection while hunting even though I now know better. May try some of the fancy electronic ear plugs when hunting.
I have to have a hearing exception/waiver to do my job now because of the hearing loss. There is a past thread somewhere in the forums on hearing damage also.
I have to have a hearing exception/waiver to do my job now because of the hearing loss. There is a past thread somewhere in the forums on hearing damage also.
I work in the safety field, i can tell you that .22's can damage hearing if you don't wear protection.
OSHA has a scale for determining potential for hearing damage based on the time level of exposure.
Hours per day Decibels
8.................. 90
6.................. 92
4.................. 95
3.................. 97
2.................. 100
1 1/2 ............ 102
1................... 105
1/2 ............... 110
1/4 or less..... 115
This is for continuous noise, it doesn't include impulse noises like gunfire.
Exposure to impulsive or impact noise should not exceed 140 dB peak sound pressure level.
An average, unsuppressed .22 rifle is about 135dB at the shooter's ear.
The threshold of pain is about 125 dB
You have to remember that the microscopic hair cells in the ear that turn sound into nerve impulses are like your lawn. Grass can tolerate some traffic and snap back, but with too much traffic (exposure) eventually it doesn't snap back - permanent damage.
You lose the high frequencies first.
If a sound makes your ears ring.... that's a good sign that it's too loud and you need more protection.
Hearing damage from impulse noise like gunfire is particularly insidious because the damage kills the hair cells in the ears, but not necessarily the nerve. In the absence of impulses from the hair cells, the nerve in the ear has "phantom pains" of a sort - ringing, buzzing, clicking. The medical term for this is tinnitus - very nasty and annoying. Some people have it so bad it keeps them awake at night.
One thing that people generally don't realize is that hearing protection has an advertised NRR or noise reduction rating, but that is not the true reduction in noise level. For earmuffs, subtract 25% of the advertised rating, for formable plugs, subtract 50% and for rubber/baffle type plugs, subtract up to 75% of the advertised rating.
This means that a foam earplug rated at 32dB reduction, when worn correctly, may only reduce the noise level by 16 dB. If you are shooting a .22, this is adequate, if you are shooting an AR-15 at 160 dB, you are still getting 144 dB blasted into your ear.
Double hearing protection (muffs and plugs) will decreas the sound level only an additonal 5 to 10 decibels. So double protection, even with the best equipment made will only reduce sound levels by 22 to 27 dB when worn correctly.
Sound can also enter the ear canal through the skin, or be conducted through the bone. This is the reason shooters normally have damage in the ear on their dominant side - face mashed down hard on a wooden stock, which conducts the vibration and sound right to the bone.
Contrast that information with a good sound suppressor that can trim about 30dB off of the report of a firearm. Much more effective, far from being so strictly controlled, they should be mandatory!
This might be more info than people were looking for, but I hope something in here proves valuable to someone.
OSHA has a scale for determining potential for hearing damage based on the time level of exposure.
Hours per day Decibels
8.................. 90
6.................. 92
4.................. 95
3.................. 97
2.................. 100
1 1/2 ............ 102
1................... 105
1/2 ............... 110
1/4 or less..... 115
This is for continuous noise, it doesn't include impulse noises like gunfire.
Exposure to impulsive or impact noise should not exceed 140 dB peak sound pressure level.
An average, unsuppressed .22 rifle is about 135dB at the shooter's ear.
The threshold of pain is about 125 dB
You have to remember that the microscopic hair cells in the ear that turn sound into nerve impulses are like your lawn. Grass can tolerate some traffic and snap back, but with too much traffic (exposure) eventually it doesn't snap back - permanent damage.
You lose the high frequencies first.
If a sound makes your ears ring.... that's a good sign that it's too loud and you need more protection.
Hearing damage from impulse noise like gunfire is particularly insidious because the damage kills the hair cells in the ears, but not necessarily the nerve. In the absence of impulses from the hair cells, the nerve in the ear has "phantom pains" of a sort - ringing, buzzing, clicking. The medical term for this is tinnitus - very nasty and annoying. Some people have it so bad it keeps them awake at night.
One thing that people generally don't realize is that hearing protection has an advertised NRR or noise reduction rating, but that is not the true reduction in noise level. For earmuffs, subtract 25% of the advertised rating, for formable plugs, subtract 50% and for rubber/baffle type plugs, subtract up to 75% of the advertised rating.
This means that a foam earplug rated at 32dB reduction, when worn correctly, may only reduce the noise level by 16 dB. If you are shooting a .22, this is adequate, if you are shooting an AR-15 at 160 dB, you are still getting 144 dB blasted into your ear.
Double hearing protection (muffs and plugs) will decreas the sound level only an additonal 5 to 10 decibels. So double protection, even with the best equipment made will only reduce sound levels by 22 to 27 dB when worn correctly.
Sound can also enter the ear canal through the skin, or be conducted through the bone. This is the reason shooters normally have damage in the ear on their dominant side - face mashed down hard on a wooden stock, which conducts the vibration and sound right to the bone.
Contrast that information with a good sound suppressor that can trim about 30dB off of the report of a firearm. Much more effective, far from being so strictly controlled, they should be mandatory!
This might be more info than people were looking for, but I hope something in here proves valuable to someone.
Thank you!
This is fantastic-Greg & Artifex thank you SO much for your very detailed information! :t This has been tossed around so much and there are so many who think "It's just a .22"... and being young and immortal don't realize the harm they are doing until it's too late.
I tell people all the time, the really insidious part of hearing loss is that you don't care when it's high frequency, but by the time you realize it is in that range of human speech... it's too late!
I ask Admin to make this thread or a recap of it a sticky. This is very good and valuable information to all of us.
Thank you again!
Mark
This is fantastic-Greg & Artifex thank you SO much for your very detailed information! :t This has been tossed around so much and there are so many who think "It's just a .22"... and being young and immortal don't realize the harm they are doing until it's too late.
I tell people all the time, the really insidious part of hearing loss is that you don't care when it's high frequency, but by the time you realize it is in that range of human speech... it's too late!
I ask Admin to make this thread or a recap of it a sticky. This is very good and valuable information to all of us.
Thank you again!
Mark
You are wrong. Hold on, you probably can't hear me, YOU ARE WRONGsplatter said:
I always wear hearing protection w/.22, though in my case the damage has already been done cause like you, I used to think that .22LR wasn't worth the hassle of sticking a pair of plugs in
I always shoot at the range with plugs and muffs on...I don't want to risk anything.
I've even debated carrying a small plastic case I have for earplugs that fits on a keychain, no bigger than a half dollar and only a wee bit thick for social situations, but I don't know if I'd really be up to snuff with regards to remembering to put them on :O Just got the idea after seeing all the soldeirs on CNN having earplugs in a small canister on them, no matter where they were.
Cheers!
I've even debated carrying a small plastic case I have for earplugs that fits on a keychain, no bigger than a half dollar and only a wee bit thick for social situations, but I don't know if I'd really be up to snuff with regards to remembering to put them on :O Just got the idea after seeing all the soldeirs on CNN having earplugs in a small canister on them, no matter where they were.
Cheers!
That's what we need to do... RFC logo emblazoned hearing protection holder, something low-drag that looks nice. Maybe on a carabiner or in an OD green case like the military ones.
My wife got me a great set of sound reduction ear muffs: Peltor Tactical 6S. These are electronic: They cancel any high decibel noises & they can amplify low decibel sounds (so you can still hear your friends talk). They're a realy joy at the range or in the field. You can get them for around $90. If you shoot alot, they are well worth it.
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For me personaly, i would wear hearing protection. Ive been shooting guns all my life since i was a little kid, (shooting for atleast 23 years now, im 28). Ive shot many diffrent types of rifles and pistols when i was in the Army, and stupid me didnt always wear hearing protection during those Army days while out in the field firing full auto weapons. Now im paying for it. My hearing isnt as good as it used to be, i can still hear fine, but if someone is speaking queitly and there is a slight noice of other things in the area, i cant understand what they are saying. Ive gotten good at reading lips to help me understand.
At my local range that i shoot at is an outdoor range, even if i was alone on the range i would still wear my muffs. Other shooters around me is my main concern about noise and my hearing. I say just wear them anyways, better safe then sorry.
At my local range that i shoot at is an outdoor range, even if i was alone on the range i would still wear my muffs. Other shooters around me is my main concern about noise and my hearing. I say just wear them anyways, better safe then sorry.
Ditto on all the warnings. I've quizzed my audiologist and ENT any number of times when I go in for the regular checkups I now feel necessary to preserve the hearing I didn't destroy 20 years ago. A few bits of perspective from one who found out too late: noise is transmitted through more than your ear canal - that's why ENT doctors often do one test on you by striking a tuning fork and holding the base of it to the bone behind your ear. Also, impulse noise like a gunshot affects your ears differently than continuous noise like a loud TV, so NRR and decibel ratings can, to some degree, be a bit off the mark when the noise at issue is gunfire - you'll see that warning on some hearing protection. Finally, the more compelling comparison may not be smallbore firearm to bigbore, because the .22 will always come out smelling like a rose in that comparison. Perhaps someone has the decibel numbers on everyday noises, which may give us a bit more frame of reference on just where the risk of hearing damage begins. You'd be surprised at what noises around the average house or (even non-industrial) workplace approach the dangerous level, and when you think of those noises compared to the report of a .22, you realize it doesn't take skull-splitting noise levels to little by little chip away at your hearing over time. Wear the plugs. Wear the muffs. If you're at the range next to a carnivore with a bazooka, wear both!
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