Well, from the sound of it, you have what is called a "hammer follow" problem. You mentioned that years ago, you had a gunsmith "improve" the trigger. It is very likely that the smith cut through the case on the sear and possible the sear notch in the hammer, to boot. What happened is this: for a time, your gun shot light and fine. However, as you were shooting it, you were unknowingly wearing out the sear and hammer at an astronomical rate. You put the gun away before you began to have problems.

Fast forward to twenty years later. You take the gun out and start shooting. Due to the wear on the hammer and sear, the hammer is now beginning to follow the slide after the firing cycle. This is becuase the recoil is jarring the sear free of the hammer notch because there isn't enough notch left to hold the hammer back under normal recoil.

Gun Parts Corp DOES have hammers in stock right now but sears are out of stock. This is because there are a LOT of Woodsmans and Huntsmans out there with the same issue as yours.

Still you SHOULD be able to find a sear for the gun in fairly short order. Have a GOOD ( key word ) smith install the new hammer and sear for you and tell them to NOT adjust the pull. A straight Woodsman pull is still very tolerable and it is certainly much safer.

None of this is really your fault. You asked, in all good faith, that the smith adjust your trigger pull....and he did. But he did it wrong.....completely wrong....and that is a lot more common than you think.

You have done the right thing by taking the gun out of service until it is safe to fire. It shouldn't cost you more than one hundred dollars to get it back up and running.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

Thank you for this excellent and thourough reply. I dont know the history on the trigger work. this gun belonged to my grandfather. it was left to me when he died. I havent been doing any regular shooting for a long time. I stored some of my guns elsewhere while the kids were young. I'm glad I did or this one would have been stolen years ago. the current political situation has rekindled my interest in shooting, I joined a range and am trying to learn everything I forgot and shoot as well as I did when I was young with a steadier hand and better eyes.
It sounds like the gun should go to a gunsmith. I did not venture beyond standard break down and am not comfortable doing so.

Thanks again for the excellent info and advice. Looks like I came the right place for help. You'll probably be hearing more from me in the near future as I rediscover the sport and hobby.
Mark

 

It may be a sear problem, but I doubt it. Most likly it is still gummed up after your cleaning and the the 20 yr lay off. It does not take much "scum" on the pins and springs to cause the problem you report....This could be caused by any number of old dried out lubes, especially if WD-40 was used.... I would consider soaking the whole gun in any of various solvents (old fashioned kerosene works well) for a couple days then de-greasing it with the likes of gun scrubber or brake cleaner. Blow it out good with compressed air, and then lightly re-lube. I'm betting it will work. Best regards Plum

 

how much disassembly is required to do this. I took apart 2 guns this weekend and the Colt was a nightmare compared to the other. I dont think I had down far enough to get to the sear. I only went as far as I could find good instructions on the web. I would gladly give this process a try. I know no gunsmiths and would probably have to ask around. My grandfather took good care of his guns, but 20 years of storage is bound to have things gummed up.
Mark

 

A story my father told me: My father bought a new Colt Woodsman in 1927. Unhappy with the trigger, he did some work on it. He then took it out for a try and was shooting along a creek where he saw a frog. He aimed carefully and squeezed off the shot.... and the Woodsman emptied the mag!

He took it home and put it away. The next day a money order went out in the mail to Colt for a hand-honed factory hammer and sear that Colt offered at that time.

I still own that pistol and I can tell you that it has one sweet trigger!

 

That very well might be what happens if I try to shoot this one. I dont think mine is that old. I think 1954. If that happens at the indoor range where I am presently shooting, it would not go over well.

 

LOL...indeed.

Okay, what you need to do is get a notebook and a sketch pad and some good pencils, a ruler and compass.

Make notes and drawings of everything as you strip it down. Do you have a nice set of clean gunsmith pin punches and a light ball peen for driving pins??? These help...as does a good work surface. Also, you need a nice set of gunsmith driver blades so you don't bugger the screws on the action or grips.

Here is a very important tip: when you pull the trigger from the frame be careful...the return spring for the trigger is pretensioned inside the trigger....as the trigger comes free from the pin, the pretensioned spring will release and go flying into oblivion if you aren're ready to stop it with your fingers. Old dental tools are great for repositioning and re-tensioning the spring when you re-install the trigger.

Keep us up to date on your progress and good luck!!!

 

I do have a set of punches that I bought specifically for working on guns. I have hammers of all sizes. Im also pretty well equiped in the screw driver dept. overall I am well equiped with just about every tool imaginable. I work on everything from boats to TV sets. Gun work is new to me but mechanical repair is not.
Since I'm not much of an artist, I will use a digital camera to document my progress. I have a schematic in the owners manual. I think I should be ok.
I guess worst case scenario, I'll take a box of parts to a gunsmith with half his work already done for him.
I did just tear down a Marlin Model 60 that wouldnt feed at all. Cleaned 20 yrs of crud and now it feeds 100%, and shoots just as well.
I'll keep you posted. I might not start till this weekend. Thanks for the help

 

Agree with desertmoon 100%. Gander Mountain sold me a "used/warranty" gen. 3 Woodsman. Turned out it had a broken firing pin, weak firing pin spring etc. Since the Gander Mountain "gunsmiths" couldn't find the parts (they said) I bought them from Gun Parts and stood there while the Gander Mountain clowns put it right.

My only regret is that I didn't buy an extra firing pin for future use.

 

I'm going to venture into the unknown innards of the gun this weekend. I got a recommendation on a gunsmith just in case I cant get it back together. This will be a good experience for me in learning gun repair. The nice thing is I have plenty of other guns to shoot in the mean time. Not like when I decided to tear my motorcycle apart 3 yrs ago. Havent ridden since.
Thanks for all the help guys. Much appreciated. It's always reassuring to have someone to bounce questions off when you do something new.

I also notice there a many fellow hams that are into guns and conservative politics. I know I must be in the right place.
K3MRK

 

Read your profile on QRZ.com Mark. You definitely are in the right place. Very nice helpful people on this particular forum. Ur an Extra class and everything. Outstanding!

I love my Woodsman but disassembly is like having a root canal. There are several books available and web sites devoted to this beauty. One or two suggestions: where springs and small parts are involved do your disassembly inside a dry cleaning bag so you don't end up like I did with my Browning rifle-a piece bouncing off to the land of lost springs. Also, use those little red plastic .22 snap caps when dry firing....as in after shooting, to drop the hammer for storage. Unlike the more current pistols which are often made to be dry fired your Woodsman IS NOT.

I plan to shoot mine Thursday at the range. We acquired some Colt magazines from CDNN and they work great.

See you on the air. My favorites are 17, 15 and 12. --.../...--

My current call is WA9BYR which is my original call from 1962.

 

Well, I've aged a little since that pic on QRZ. I think its about 5 yrs old. I checked the other day and most of the bio is pretty up to day. You can see I like to play. Boats, Radios, Guns, Cars and Motorcycles. I have to keep things interesting or I get board. I dont get on the air much lately. Not sure why. But I'm still interested and keep up to date with whats going on. All I have to do is flip the switch.
My gun hobby is kind of new in a way. I used to shoot regularly when I was a young boy and then again in my 20s. Always kept the guns. Now my interest goes beyond plinking down along the river with my buddies. I'm interested in perfecting my marksmanship and also learning the technical side of the weapons themselves.
This forum has been a big help for 2 guns I am currently working on. After shooting centerfire pistols most of my adult life, I'm now finding myself being drawn back to my roots with the 22. Im not a rich man yet, so the 22 fits my buget well.
Cant wait till it warms up and dries out a little here to go do some outside shooting.

 

I wish you were here or I was there so I could give you the few pointers I have while you do the mechanical work. My fingers don't do precision work like they used to. The Woodsman/Huntsman series is a classic but definitely from a bygone age.

As I said dry firing is out. New Rugers, Brownings and others actually recommend it!

Disassembly is early 20th century machine tool. Little pieces fall out in a random manner, springs get old and so on.

On the plus side it is a shooter you can leave to your grandchildren. It's all steel. No plastic here! Its blue, if in good shape, is a thing of beauty. A modern Walther P22 is mostly plastic with a slide that looks like Rustolium Flat Primer.

Finally, they just feel right in your hand. It points like a Luger if not better.

Glad to know you still work CW. I work it with my rig's electronic keyer and, from time to time, use an old Vibroplex "Bug". There are still a few of us left. When I was ill two years ago I decided to be the last living Advanced Class ham. Since there will be no new ones I'm gaining ground. The rest just aren't dying fast enough.

Sounds like you have a substantial station. We are pretty limited now but I always have hopes.

Take care my friend --.../...--

 

I will post some pics before I tear it apart. I belive the grips are custom and I seem to remember that my grandfather made them. He was a real good wood carver. I remember he used to hand carve these small animals that were amazing. Also, it is a Match Target model. I've cut my station back to a TS450 and an LDG auto tuner. And a tentec 6 meter transverter. I've still got a ton of stuff from my early days all over the house that I've been saving for 35 yrs to fix up "when I have the time". Might have to wait for retirement. I love CW, if I'm not challenged I get bored. Thats why I have so many hobbies.
I think this Colt will be quite a challenge.

 

Keep us posted on your progress. Hope to hear good things soon.

 

Mine does the same thing...

I have a 2nd Gen Woodsman that I inherited from my wife's Grandfather after he died. The pistol has always had an FTF on occasion - about once every other magazine full. Lately, it does this very often and on occasion "doubles".

I don't know if he ever had any trigger work done on the pistol.

Yesterday, I had it at the range it and the pistol stopped functioning all-together - it would not cock the hammer either automatically or by hand.

I brought it home and completely tore it down, cleaning all parts carefully. I thought I'd find something broken or obviously worn, but this was not the case. After putting it back together, the action seemed to function normally again snapping it on a fired .22 case.

I'll take it to the range next time and see if that did the trick. In 5 years of owning this gun, this was the first time I'd completely stripped it (other than field stripping). I hope the issue was dirt and grime as parts for these gems are hard to come by. I have also ordered a spring kit for the gun from Wolff Springs.

 

I'm going to weigh in on this and venture that at one time the sear spring got bent/lost tension during reassembly

I would disassemble the pistol and retension the sear spring (bend slightly, give it a little more arc). I have had this happen to me with a Woodsman and a Huntsman (although both pistols are slightly different the sear spring work exactly the same) retensioning fixed they both...

 

I have tried that twice as I had the same thought but perhaps I didn't bend the sear spring quite enough. I was afraid of over-doing it.

 

Try bending it till you can't lock the main then back out a little at a time untill you get it to lock. Once you've done that then it's range time...

 

Thanks - good suggestion - I'll give it a try.

 

My Woodsman now has a new recoil and FP spring as well as a significantly re-tensioned sear spring. I also thoroughly cleaned it during a detailed strip. After my next trip to the range, I'll report whether or not this fixed my FTF and double problems. The action is working properly again following the cleaining.

As an aside - I'll say this... the Woodsman may have been a JMB design, but it sure lacks the simplicity of his other designs - like the 1911. The Woodsman is as complicated as a Swiss watch!

 

Kragluver, I have a first generation Woodsman, a Challenger (a second generation), and a third generation Match Target Woodsman. I find this design to be much simpler than any newer design. I have no qualms detail stripping one of these, just as I would a model 1911. However, the 1911 was designed as a military arm, so there is a bit more simplicity in its design. The slide with recoil spring and guide is a bit of a pain. JMB's grandson (I believe) took this further with the Browning Challenger / Nomad / Medalist design of the 1960s and 70s.

I don't live too far from you, in Texas terms. Please feel free to PM me. I am by no means an expert on these firearms, but I keep mine running without a hitch.

Jake in TX

 

Kragluver, I have a first generation Woodsman, a Challenger (a second generation), and a third generation Match Target Woodsman. I find this design to be much simpler than any newer design. I have no qualms detail stripping one of these, just as I would a model 1911. However, the 1911 was designed as a military arm, so there is a bit more simplicity in its design. The slide with recoil spring and guide is a bit of a pain. JMB's grandson (I believe) took this further with the Browning Challenger / Nomad / Medalist design of the 1960s and 70s.

I don't live too far from you, in Texas terms. Please feel free to PM me. I am by no means an expert on these firearms, but I keep mine running without a hitch.

Jake in TX

When you look at the evolution, the Woodsman was clearly a starting point for Bruce Browning, the designer of the Belgium Browning 22 pistols. As I understand the development of the Woodsman, John Browning designed the basic concept of the predecessor to the Woodsman and Colt designers actually finished the Woodsman design. If you go to the Browning Museum in Ogden UT they do a good job of explaining it.
The Belgium Brownings were designed to eliminate many issues inherent with the Woodsman. The Belgium Browning 22 pistols have a non movable rear sight, a quick change barrel, a better trigger, and easier disassembly. The mags are very similar along with the grip angle.

 

Interesting discussion here...

I'm looking forward to getting to the range again soon and see if all the changes I've made make a difference.

 

Kragluver, have you been to the range since you posted last?

Jake in TX

 

The Model S (Woodsman, Match Target, etc.) is not that complicated to completely disassemble. Once the main spring housing is removed so as to remove the tension on the hammer strut, it can be readily disassembled without much difficulty. It sounds to me like the sear may not have spring tension on it to hold it in contact with the hammer, so it "bounces" off the hammer notch when the slide slams shut. Perhaps the prior disassembly created that problem with the sear spring being installed incorrectly or left out.

The admonition about "dry firing" the Model S is misplaced. Since the early versions do not have a slide lock to lock back the slide after the last round is fired, the way most shooters discover they are out of ammunition is when they hear a "click" from the hammer falling on an empty chamber. No damage results from such an event because the firing pin is designed so that it does not strike the chamber when no cartridge is present. In 95 years of shooting, early Target Models have been inadvertently "dry fired" a lot of times without damage. It is not an issue.

 

The admonition about "dry firing" the Model S is misplaced. Since the early versions do not have a slide lock to lock back the slide after the last round is fired, the way most shooters discover they are out of ammunition is when they hear a "click" from the hammer falling on an empty chamber. No damage results from such an event because the firing pin is designed so that it does not strike the chamber when no cartridge is present. In 95 years of shooting, early Target Models have been inadvertently "dry fired" a lot of times without damage. It is not an issue.

I'm sure glad to hear that as I have that issue with both of my magazines and these guys had me worried. Is there a way to make the hold open device a little more positive ? Mine holds sometimes and sometimes not.

 

Kragluver, have you been to the range since you posted last?

I have not. I hope to go on Friday. Will report back then...

 

Finally!

...got a chance to get out and shoot my Woodsman with the spring changes and the re-tensioned main spring. Bottom line - shot fine. No more FTFs or doubling. I don't know if the re-tensioning of the main spring or the Wolf spring changes made the difference, but it shot like a new gun.