Well after a bit of thought it dawned on me that we need a section for British shooters and our American cousins to see what life is like for us British shooters on this side of the pond.

I like the idea.

One question I have concerns the Chunnel and how, when, and where do drivers switch driving from left side of road to right side in France.

I ask because my wife likes to watch "Return to the Chateau" where a British couple are living in an old French Chateau but are driving British cars.

 

fwiw,

the "chunnel" isnt used by locals....and pegs you as not a local. but i know what you mean..

but i drove/passenger from the UK > France. It was mentioned by the car rental to move/switch the headlights over to the other side. Driving onto the Eurostar was cool and different. The ride was way cool back then too.

I never got to drive at night was only in France for a few more days.

But it was interesting to drive a right hand drive car on the left side of the road and also back in the UK, driving.

I was also lucky to get an automatic way back then since i never drove a manual. but from the UK person doing most of the driving, it would depend on the car make if the wiper/turn stalks were swapped and some other things.

teh car i rented had a "power switch" to dump? more fuel into the engine so you could pass. without it, it was a gutless wonder. I didnt know about it at first and when the UK driver took over he was trying to pass w/o any luck and asked if i knew where the switch was. when it was found and depressed, it was obvious what it was for and what it did.

 

I't be nice for some folks to see its a big world outside of their circle with others in different countries with like interests such as, shooting with different disciplines etc..

The wife adapted well being a lefty and stationed in Japan for 2 years, with the driver's seat on the right with a center floor mounted stick shift....driving on the wrong side of the road not so much for both of us. Coming home while she was on leave for 30 days and driving on the "correct" side of the road was a trip of which we did several times relearning which side to drive on each time! We were not good drivers @ intersections asking each other which side of the road to take when making a turn after a couple beers!

 

I't be nice for some folks to see its a big world outside of their circle with others in different countries with like interests such as, shooting with different disciplines etc..

The wife adapted well being a lefty and stationed in Japan for 2 years, with the driver's seat on the right with a center floor mounted stick shift....driving on the wrong side of the road not so much for both of us. Coming home while she was on leave for 30 days and driving on the "correct" side of the road was a trip of which we did several times relearning which side to drive on each time! We were not good drivers @ intersections asking each other which side of the road to take when making a turn after a couple beers!

How on earth can you use your sword to dispense with ruffians when driving on the Napoleonic side of the road?

No wonder you adopted those revolver things

and its handy when visiting Japan and Australia they are into swords too well kind of.

Yes it takes me a few weeks to get used to the Euro side of the road until i hat a large traffic junction or I'm a pedestrian then it becomes very confusing having to rubberneck every single time. If I was drunk i would rely on a cousin or taxi driver to guide me home

The Chunnel uses a train system that strong arms you into driving in the European way a little like a slot car you cant escape. Many people here in the UK go on day trips to France to buy fine wine and nice food as it is vastly cheaper there,

they also have some interesting gun laws and a fascination with 9mm flobert rimfire shot pistols and Velo dogs also known as Grenaisle guns and a hatred of military calibres. As well as very dangerous fireworks!

interestingly enough over here its not as hard as people think to own a gun just a little arduous as you need to be in a club which isn't that hard to find you have to be a regular attendee for a minimum of 3 months or 12 visits, although some clubs like more.

Alternatively if you are landed gentry or lotto winner/Soccer player and have a vast tracts of land then you need no club at all just a cabinet to secure the firearm and separate safe for the ammunition. provided the land is suitable for certain calibres, you need to contact your local police force and they have guys who will come and survey the land in order to work out if the calibres you requested are reasonable to use on that patch of land, these guys are shooters and hunters themselves and seeing as the UK is so tiny you have to make dam sure your shot has no way of leaving your property otherwise you will be in serious pooh!

but you would be surprised how if you construct a no danger area range they would let you have permission to shoot even in a large garden, I knew of a fellow who was allowed to use his silenced .308 on 2 acres of land in a London suburb as he had a large hill at the back of his 30 yard garden

Of course it helps to join the UK NRA as well!

however ours is very different you yours, its more like Wimbledon tennis association or something along those lines. i urge any one who ever visits England to pay a visit to Bisley it genuinely feels like Edwardian England the club houses are beautiful almost like the times of the British Raj when we ruled the world (stole everything)

it honesty hasn't changed in 100 years the clip below was made in the early 80's and literally nothing has changed even the fashion sense remains the same. Just the guns have changed, well some of them anyway.

The greatest prize in all shooting! The Queens Prize!

 

British Shooting?

Isn't that an oyxmoron?

Wasn't the last time there was any 'British Shooting' April 19, 1775? I understand Captain John Parker then gave an exceptional demonstration of colonial shooting, a "veritable furnace of musketry"

 

Isn't that an oyxmoron?

Wasn't the last time there was any 'British Shooting' April 19, 1775? I understand Captain John Parker then gave an exceptional demonstration of colonial shooting, a "veritable furnace of musketry"

I served with some Royal Marines who would certainly take umbrage at that sort of talk.

Big friendly bushy mustachioed lads. Good hands at drinking and fighting both, and never to be trifled with. I had nothing but utmost respect for them.

Frank

 

I like the idea!

Airguns: I can shoot a target downstairs in my man-cave or go outside to shoot in the backyard (weather permitting). I don't have to belong to a range.

Are airguns treated differently than powder burners? Just curious...


:F

 

I like the idea!

Airguns: I can shoot a target downstairs in my man-cave or go outside to shoot in the backyard (weather permitting). I don't have to belong to a range.

Are airguns treated differently than powder burners? Just curious...

:F

Airguns are practically unlicensed so long as they are below 12ftlbs kinetic energy and you are over 18 you can have one, in Scotland they have a licencing system for airguns which initially seemed quiet draconian but it actually opened the floodgates to more people applying for Firearm/Shotgun certificate's.
Best thing is if buying a "silencer for an airgun" you need no paperwork whatsoever, even though its the same as a rimfire can just one hasn't been proofed.

As a result the quality of airguns in the UK has always been high an airgun commands respect and is still quite useful on small holdings and for rabbits and Corvids at close range

Webley Service rifle

anything above 12ftlbs you need to put in on an FAC. most people don't bother however there some applications where a high powered airgun is preferable such as built up areas where pest control is an issue, also some police forces prefer them on small areas of land along with 17hmr

Shotguns are a doddle to own, you actually have the right under law to posses a shotgun and have no need to provide a reason for possession (in theory) you just need secure storage and to complete an application form with one referee.

With an FAC Firearms certificate you need two referees and be with a club or have lots of land or written permission from someone with lots of land

Shotguns however restricted to 3 shots any more and you need to put them on a firearms cert, which is where it gets weird.

I could in theory buy a Saiga 12 semi auto slug gun, with a drum mag. but I cant own a centrefire semi auto rifle?

.22 semi autos are fine so are shotguns but pointy central bangy bullets are bad

Still you cant miss what you never had I was horrible with a pistol anyway Muzzle loading pistols however, are still allowed and there are some quite modern ones
Yes its a muzzle loader by Westlake engineering

We are strictly not allowed to have weapons for defensive purposes it is a target pistol.

The odd thing is the Isle of man which is a province, still has no ban on pistols and full auto weapons.

Most interestingly Northern Ireland is still allowed to have handguns as well, like they never had any issues with gun crime... cough cough.

As others have mentioned British TV shows guns as scary things baddies use unless its 007 then that's ok he's allowed.
in the 1970s-80s it was different guns where cool 1 in 25 people had a pistol before 1997

The British general public are incredibly ignorant and falsely think all guns in the UK are banned a few realise that shotguns exist but falsely assume you are some kind of aristo/ or a survivalist if you go shooting. Most British people don't even know shooting is in the Olympics.

Most people don't really know much come to think of it

Silencers make perfect sense and many target shooters are now using them as they tend to increase accuracy and its nice not to have to wear ear defenders personally I think it should be mandatory on all public or shared ranges.

The Deslise Carbine in .45acp

Also loving the pics of the London and Middlesex rifle club yes it is indeed still there, of course its still there Bisley is stuck in a permanent time warp. I guarantee you the interior is exactly the same as when you visited, the only thing that does change is the beer.

The pavilion bar is still there although I heard rumour they where going to turn the pavilion into some kind of event hall for weddings etc
i love the weapons display above the bar, they even had a Korean K1a assault rifle up how the **** they got hold of that is beyond me

sorry about the cars no Rolls Royce's just some uncouth 'Merican hot roddy things

My favorite ale was called Group tightener when I asked last time they said it was discontinued...

Century range, the clue is in the name, nothing like a 1000 yards with Peep sights!

I'm going to enter the rimfire long range match later this year, they used to do a 500 yard rimfire comp many years ago!

P.S the whole place is flooded with Enfields, Martini's and Anschutz rifles the prices over here will make you cry...pennies

https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/rifles/bsa/martini

We've not had any ammo shortages in the UK many shooters are opting for Lapua over Eley Tennex but as i write this I'm wearing my eley T shirt i simply love Tennex. SK is also very poplar on the gallery rifle circuit and the Std plus is simply amasing for the price. I'm keen to test out the Flatnose. RWS Club is still one of my favorites although it is very greasy, always goes bang and is super reliable in a 10/22

 

This is how colonization starts. “ Could we have a corner , please?” Next thing you know they’ll be wanting us to drink warm beer , and play cricket .

 

Warm beer has more flavor, thats why the cheap tasteless 'brews' need to be chilled!
Or is it that the Brits have Lucas refrigerators?
Sub-forum? YES
Btw, whereas the gun/hunting culture in GB used to be quite different from here in The States. I think we have become much more similar what with urbanization, restricted land access, anti-gun/hunting sentiments, etc. We are moving, perhaps more quickly than many realize, in that direction.
I have liked the combination of form and function of most Brit sporting arms, though that may be due to only people of some means could really entertain owning and using such indulgences?
The Rook and Rabbit rifles were much more practical, and elegant, than the American 'utilitatian' versions, mostly in 22rf, though the early day 25 and 32rf's were better 'small game and varmint' calibers. I once had a Stevens Mdl 44 in 32-20 that was marvelous. Ive lusted after a Brit R&R for years but the prices here are too much for me.

 

Warm beer has more flavor, thats why the cheap tasteless 'brews' need to be chilled!

:yeahthat:

Pearls before swine my friend, pearls before swine.

Any culture where Coors Light is a popular "beer" will never really be a beer drinking culture.

As to differences in gun culture here and in the UK, the gap is huge in many areas and perhaps not so wide in others. I find it somewhat ludicrous that "silencers" are embraced/tolerated by politicians in the UK, but are viewed as the worst of the devil's work by our fine, elected representatives.

We watch a lot of Brit, etc. TV shows and it never ceases to amaze me how the UK entertainment industry always has the actors react with abject horror whenever a firearm (especially handguns) is mentioned or shown. Training the masses in correct thought, I suppose. Does anyone read Orwell anymore over there?

 

Be interesting to hear the ammo situation across the pond. What was the Covid impact to European match ammo manufacturing and consumption?

Have European shooters noticed a preference when comparing current lots of Lapua and Eley?

 

I have a friend in Shropshire that has visited a few times. He had never fired a rifle or pistol, only shotguns and pellet guns. The pellet gun experience was obviously a good thing, he is a good shot. The first visit was brief, just enough time to shoot my 45-70 rolling block and S&W 9MM pistol. In later visits he has shot everything from 22lr to 45-70s and enjoyed himself. Since the OP mentioned colonization, I have a theory as to why the British searched the ends of the earth... they were looking for something good to eat.
FM

 

I always thought it was because they were seeking sunshine and warm weather.

 

Was saddened to see this sign when I visited Bisley to shoot:

But then I saw the next sign and things got better.

 

First photo above was in the London & Middlesex Rifle Association clubhouse (near 20 years ago, wonder if it is still there?) at Bisley. Second photo was near the NRA Building.

 

Still there Eagle and although the decor has changed, a very popular watering hole it is too :beerchug:

Iain

 

Well after a bit of thought it dawned on me that we need a section for British shooters and our American cousins to see what life is like for us British shooters on this side of the pond.

Most of the British forums are practically dead and although its a bit cheeky, we do need a place to discuss shooting matters in the UK

< snippage! >

Good thought. Although a native US-er, I grew up in the UK and was on the school shooting team, 22s and 303s. Moved back to the States at the age of 29 with a British family, and started shooting again. VERY different feeling even then, and from what I hear from friends in the UK that do still shoot, it is a world away from what I remember now.

 

Nice air rifle Evanix Semi auto?

unfortunately air rifles would also only be allowed in semi auto as a .22 the law is so poorly written.

Many years ago I almost bought a Zastava semi auto .177 Co2 target pistol, the importer didn't realise is was a semi and I'm not sure on the legality of owning it anymore,

it had the strangest mechanism ever it had a rear loading tube mag whereby, the previous pellet almost acted like a breech seal. One of those designs you cant work out why it worked so well, utterly flawless even with Sptizkugeln .177 points

still one of the best pellets ever made with the exception of the old and I stress old Eley Wasp.

Eley stopped making them and they went bad. The old tins command a high price as many vintage airguns use a 5.6mm rimfire bore and 5.5mm pellets form a poor seal and on some really old guns, just fall through the bore altogether

, my friend got his new for £90 I stupidly bought a Rhom Comp pistol which was nowhere near as much fun. luckily I traded it for my 1st Cz452 a Varmint with a nice simmons scope!

 

It would be a good place to share info and stories. Maybe over a pint or two.

 

Yes I was in the process of joining the Marylebone Rifle and pistol club in 1996 when Dunblane happened.

We knew that the writing was on the wall for pistols. I walked away at that point and just stuck with my Shotgun Certificate. Silly really as they keep asking me to join them now!

Yes I haven't been to Bisley for a couple (maybe more) of years now due to work and other BS commitments. 90% of the time we just used the British sporting rifle club for doing running boar and deer shoots I barely noticed anything on the way in.

I miss the Running boar I was a crackshot at running target regularly used to get 90+

check out the Video, although this guy is doing it wrong you need to start the rifle in the rest position and have the but against your hip.

I may well enter that and the Mini McQueen this summer at the Phoenix or Imperial meeting

 

As mentioned elsewhere in the thread the Channel Tunnel uses trains to shuttle vehicles, so you sort yourself out in the terminals at either end.

Thanks for posting that. Makes perfect sense to do it this way. I have not seen any kind of documentary on the channel tunnel in many years, so was very uninformed.

In case people in the UK don't already know, firearms laws vary greatly here in the US by state. For example, in Arkansas an FBI instant background check is not required if the purchaser has a concealed carry permit, just fill out the form 4473.

EDIT: Arkansas is not the most "gun-friendly" state, however, partly because it does not allow for open carry. Guns & Ammo magazine annually publishes a descriptive list of the states ranked by least to most gun friendly. Arizona was the most gun friendly IIRC.

 

Great thread & videos sir...

rick

 

How is the war against the American Grey Squirrel going?

Have heard that they have become very invasive, were dominating the native squirrels, and that attempts were being made to eliminate the imported American species.

 

I think a new forum to discuss international gun ownership, culture and rules would be a great idea. I traveled extensively to Europe before retiring and always enjoyed visiting the local sporting shops. Most of my time was in Germany, so Frankonia's gun department was always a treat to visit.

Art

 

My only attachment to UK shooting is that I imported a Colt GM from England to keep it from being turned into scrap.

 

Yes we do have some questionable cuisines, black pudding (blood clot suasage) yuk and jellied eels eeew. (canned eels in jelly) revolting not only to look at but the taste, don't even go there.

This does explain why Curry is the national dish of the UK

Also most brits have owned or had a friend who has a pellet gun/air rifle.

Most of my countrymen are too intimated to join a gun club as they believe you need to jump through many hoops to get a firearm's certificate.

Therefore UK shooting guys tend to own quite high end air guns, and as a result the quality has always been quite high when compared to other countries air guns.

Owning air guns until I moved over to firearms some 20 years ago helped me immensely as I knew how to aim, hold over.

its a shame your friend from Shropshire didnt try to join a local club and get into shooting over here.

i too have fired some quite exotic rifles.

A Schmidt Rubin straight pull that was staggeringly accurate. 3 band Enfield muzzle loader a 2mm pinfire and a reproduction medieval pot cannon, we shot clays with it, i managed to get a crossing pair with one shot!

most bizarrely of all a Teddy bear cannon that fired "human cannonball" teddy bears. This was built for a close friend as a commission, he is a reenactor and also does charity shooting events and corporate days


You will like this, he had to get the cannon proofed by the LNP London proof house but for teddy bears, the proof house guys came along to inspect the cannon and he had to provide a sample of teddy bears with the black powder for them to "proof test his teddy gun"

Apparently the proof load sent the poor teddy flying into some very distant trees where he promptly caught fire. It turns out the proof house guys forgot to use the "Teddy Sabot" which was a leg cut from an old pair of denim jeans.

Unsurprisingly teddy bears are quite a low pressure round and that cannon sailed through the proof test.

You couldn't make it up, what do they say the truth is stranger than fiction.

 

most bizarrely of all a Teddy bear cannon that fired "human cannonball" teddy bears. This was built for a close friend as a commission, he is a reenactor

What does he re-enacted? Does he come over here and be one of the bad guys on our 4th of July celebrations?

 

I hope that I didn't offend anyone with my attempt at humor. A former member of the Black Watch opened a pub in Salem, Oregon years ago. I loved "bangers on a bun" and understand why the UK almost went to war over Icelandic cod, wonderful stuff. He also imported Watneys Red Barrel Beer, I hated to move. He had a Beardmore London Taxi that I managed to keep running for him. It ran OK but I had to make bushings for most of the linkages. I was amazed to find out that it had a million miles on it.
FM

 

I hope that I didn't offend anyone with my attempt at humor.

None taken. :t

After all the USA spawned the 'Twinky' which has absolutely nothing to do with 'something good to eat'.

 

We have a cannon that shoots Coors Light beer cans filled with cement about 500 yards on a 2 ounce charge of FF black powder. Not particularly accurate but the chest thumping report and cloud of smoke is quite satisfying!

Stuffed Teddy Bears...pphhttt, child's play

Frank

 

Like the LT, not sure about our British friends with teddy bear cannon rounds. Many American households prefer to cast their own projectiles. like these 2.25" cannon projectiles.

Sizing die in the background. Used in a rifled tube with 90 grams of cannon grade. Shoots 12 moa, all day long, if the crew does their part.😉

 

Like the LT, not sure about our British friends with teddy bear cannon rounds. Many American households prefer to cast their own projectiles. like these 2.25" cannon projectiles.
View attachment 252287

Sizing die in the background. Used in a rifled tube with 90 grams of cannon grade. Shoots 12 moa, all day long, if the crew does their part.😉

So ~3oz of BP gets those out the end of a rifled bore? Isn't that charge a bit on the light side? What kind of velocity do you get?

 

Shoots 12 moa, all day long, if the crew does their part.😉

Okay, that made me laugh. :bthumb:

 

That video of the 22 shotgun was interesting.

Questions though, what the heck is a 'shotgun license'?

Also, that 22 shotgun is basically a parlor/flobert gun. Can you buy floberts legally in the UK and shoot them?

:bthumb:

 

So a shotgun certificate and firearm's certificate are actually two separate documents

A shotgun certificate is actually a doddle to get all you need is a safe or secure storage. and one referee to sign you application form, then the police come to inspect you home to see if you have adequate security. in other words do you have a safe that is out of plain sight that is secured to a supporting wall.

It is actually your right as a British subject to own a shotgun without have a "good reason"

Firearms certificate is harder to get, which is why they talk of having a .22 on an SGC in the you tube video, most shooters in the UK have SGC's not so many have FAC's and after the pistol ban many people handed in their FAC's and just kept their shotguns

You have to jump through quite a few hoops to get a firearm's certificate as you need to be in a club for a minimum of 3 months or 12 visit's.
Or if you are wealthy enough and have a large plot of land, or have permission from someone with a large plot of land,

For a firearm's certificate must provide a "good reason" to posses a firearm. i.e target shooting, or Hunting. Then you have to state what you want, for instance a .22lr, a .223 and a .308 and relevant suppressor's as they are classed as a firearm in their own right they will then put these "slots" on your certificate saying that you can purchase one rifle for each slot. if you want more you need to filling in a variation form and pay a fee.

It is a major pain in the bottom, as if you buy a faulty gun and need to return it you also have to send your license back to the police to be reprinted.

With regards to .22 shot yes its a parlor type "garden gun" round often called rat shot in the uk and is very handy in barns and around livestock. However the 9mm Flobert rimfire is quite poplar here and quite often available with a suppressor,

Those two guys in the Video are simply amasing shotgunners.