Several years ago, I bought a Ruger 17 WSM and several bricks of ammo. I already had a CZ 17 HMR. I had a lot of misfire issues with the WSM and returned it to Ruger to have it checked out. Ruger said noting was wrong with it and returned the rifle. As the misfire issued continued, I sent it to a gunsmith that specializes in Rugers and he checked it out as well. Upon the rifles return, the problem continued. Many times, if I just re-cocked it, it would fire. Also, if I removed the round and rotated it in the chamber so the firing pin had a new place to hit, it would fire. Most of the time it didn't matter how times the firing pin struck the rim it would never fire.

I had a sage rat hunt planned and took the rifle with me along with the HMR. When the WSM would fire, it was highly accurate and very devastating on the rats. The misfires got so bad I put it back in the case and finished out the next 2 days using the HMR. The HMR never had an issue and I made kill shots out to around185 yards.

When I got home, I put the WSM on Gunbroker for a very cheap price. In the description I also described the misfire issues in continued to have. I sold it very quickly.

If you decide on a WSM, you should check availability of ammo. It's fairly hard to come by right now.

I won't buy another one, but I would buy another HMR.

 

You just described the symptoms of excessive headspace.

Art

 

Rather than a Wsm, just get a 223. Ammo is cheap accurate and available.

 

I love my wsm's I have 2 vq. But ammo avaliable sux at the moment. I don't experience that many ftf but it is more common than with the 17hmr. One or 2 in 50 rounds. The wsm is my favorite gopher gun.

 

If you get a good one (if) and (if you) can find good lots of ammo the .17wsm is great...if.

 

I am completely happy with the coverage between my .17HMR and my .223Rem (/very/ flexible w/ handloading).

 

As much as I have used and liked the .17 WSM in four rifles to date, I think I would still recommend the .17 HMR. I never had ignition problems (two VQs an 1885, and a Ruger), but the .17 WSM will be louder, and there are not nearly the number of options on rifles. Also, .17 HMR ammunition is so much more common, and you are used to it.

Regarding wind sensitivity, you don't mention to what you are comparing wind drift. The BC of the .17 HMR (and .17 WSM) bullets betters those of any other rimfire ammunition, including the .22 WMR loads, so, the wind drift is less. Other centerfire rounds will obviously be better in wind, but no other rimfire will. The .17 WSM with the 25 gr bullet and higher velocity will drift less than any .17 HMR load, so that may be what you are asking.

What the .17 WSM needs is an affordable but well-built bolt rifle designed specifically for the .17 WSM, like a CZ. That, and more ready availability of ammunition. It's out there, but it is always snapped up. I don't expect it to be discontinued as long as the ammunition disappears off dealers' shelves.

Also, given what I know now, if you can go centerfire (some states won't allow centerfire in certain applications), I think I would look at .17 Hornet. It is a true 300-yard cartridge with many bullet options but not as loud as other centerfires. I bought one of the last Cooper 38s, and it could be the perfect sage rat rifle, considering report, recoil, trajectory, and effectiveness.
TBR

 

As much as I have used and liked the .17 WSM in four rifles to date, I think I would still recommend the .17 HMR. I never had ignition problems (two VQs an 1885, and a Ruger), but the .17 WSM will be louder, and there are not nearly the number of options on rifles. Also, .17 HMR ammunition is so much more common, and you are used to it.

Regarding wind sensitivity, you don't mention to what you are comparing wind drift. The BC of the .17 HMR (and .17 WSM) bullets betters those of any other rimfire ammunition, including the .22 WMR loads, so, the wind drift is less. Other centerfire rounds will obviously be better in wind, but no other rimfire will. The .17 WSM with the 25 gr bullet and higher velocity will drift less than any .17 HMR load, so that may be what you are asking.

What the .17 WSM needs is an affordable but well-built bolt rifle designed specifically for the .17 WSM, like a CZ. That, and more ready availability of ammunition. It's out there, but it is always snapped up. I don't expect it to be discontinued as long as the ammunition disappears off dealers' shelves.

Also, given what I know now, if you can go centerfire (some states won't allow centerfire in certain applications), I think I would look at .17 Hornet. It is a true 300-yard cartridge with many bullet options but not as loud as other centerfires. I bought one of the last Cooper 38s, and it could be the perfect sage rat rifle, considering report, recoil, trajectory, and effectiveness.
TBR

I've got the 17HH IN a cz. It shoots great. I also have a 17m4 cooper and a 17FB rem 700. I'd recommend the 17fb/17m4 over the 17hh. Just from my experience. The hornady brass is only good for a couple reloadings and the primer pockets are loose. I dint have any pressure signs. Some factory loads are loose after one firing. My 17fb have over 10 loadings. Annealed every 3-5 loadings depending on the time I have. It uses a little more powder but I'm not burning through brass.

 

Factory load primer pockets are loose after one firing? There's no doubt .22 Hornet brass is less resilient than most, especially compared to anything based on the .222/.223, and I have had case life issues as well, but never only one or two firings. Then again, I don't think I've ever used factory loads. I guess I have had one or two out of a batch of 100 or 150 loads fails after a couple of loadings, but most go longer. It sure seems that short brass life is a pretty good sign of pressure, though, and that the brass may give out before any other traditional pressure signs appear. I can't argue with someone's actual experience, but I get at least 5 loadings, usually a few more.

Some mileage obviously varies.

 

Factory load primer pockets are loose after one firing? There's no doubt .22 Hornet brass is less resilient than most, especially compared to anything based on the .222/.223, and I have had case life issues as well, but never only one or two firings. Then again, I don't think I've ever used factory loads. I guess I have had one or two out of a batch of 100 or 150 loads fails after a couple of loadings, but most go longer. It sure seems that short brass life is a pretty good sign of pressure, though, and that the brass may give out before any other traditional pressure signs appear. I can't argue with someone's actual experience, but I get at least 5 loadings, usually a few more.

Some mileage obviously varies.

If I remember correctly I'm running right at factory fps on the 17gr. . If it was hot I'd say it's my problem. My friend has the same problem with his HH. There's a ball bearing trick for the primer pocket. I'll have to try. Before the shortage of WSM it was cheaper to shoot wsm than HH if I couldn't get over 5 reloads out of brass. So it will be worth an extra step now. I sold my ruger wsm for insane money. If the ammo comes back I'll probably buy a scabage for a loaner gun if need be.

 

17hmr for reasons mentioned in previous posts. A friend had one. We shot it for a month or so and he moved it out. Had problems mentioned in previous post. As Gerald said "if". Too many ifs for me. I have four 17hmr and they serve me quite well.

 

I don't know about headspace, but one would think Ruger and another gunsmith would check that. I have read, but I don't remember where now, that Ruger had to increase the mainspring power to get proper ignition on the M77/17 WSMs, but doing so resulted in a terrible trigger pull. I don't know that the problem was ever resolved, but mine had good ignition with a mediocre trigger, more or less typical for a factory original M77/22-17 trigger, not terrible.

 

Loved "Scabage." Very descriptive of the BMag. Are you referring to sizing primer pockets down? My case failures were usually in the neck.

 

I've not split a neck yet. Yes there's a video out on using a ball bearing to mash the pocket a tid.
A buddy has a bmag, it's just a touch crude for my liking. Hard cocking ect. But for a loaner which I wouldn't have to shoot it would be fine.. lol

 

Just for grins, my B-Mag bedded in a Boyd's stock by my Gunsmith, it had shot decent with 15 gr. loads and I asked him to shoot it while he had it after bedding.(F-class state champ a time or two so I know he can shoot).

A 200 yard group with the same load..no not all day long nor even with every load but....

Heats up and fouls quickly which I don't like but in these parts the occasional shot is all you get and that 15 gr bullet will turn a ground hog into chunks....

 

Nice BMag. Didn't you also have a .17 WSM barrel from Bullberry? or MGM, or somewhere?, for a Contender or Encore that had ignition issues due to firing pin location? How well did it end up shooting?

 

I've shot literally cases upon cases of ammo shooting sage rats over the last 45 years. In my preteen years, late 70's early 80's, we had some areas close to where I lived that were loaded with sage rats and every early spring my dad would buy a case of 22lr ammo, they were 5000rnd cases then, and by the end of summer we'd have shot it all. Back then we pretty much had an endless supply of sage rats to shoot and they were all well under 100yds so our 22's were all we needed. I had a Marlin 39A and my grandfathers Win. model 74 my dad had a Win. 9422. Dad never liked semi autos which worked out great for me because that meant I got my grandfathers Winchester model 74 which I still have to this day.

Through the years I've had a few Marlin 39A's and Win. 9422's both 22LR and 22mag as well as a Rem 597 22mag. When the 17HMR first came out there was no way I was interested in one of those things with their tiny little bullets, until, I shot one and realized ohhh these little things can reach out there pretty good and not only were they more accurate at distance then my 22mag but they were still delivering a pretty good amount of energy and splat factor on sage rats at those further distances. Within the week I had me a shiny new Sav. 93 SS HB laminated thumbhole stock 17HMR. Ten or so years later and they come out with the 17WSM. I knew I wasn't interested in the original skinny barrel Bmag so I waited till Savage came out with the HB SS model before I bought one. The early HB SS Bmag's were only available with the crappy plastic stock so before I ever put a single round through mine I bought a Boyd's Pro Varmint from DIP Inc. and since DIP Inc. is local to me I was able to have it in hand within two days of purchasing the gun. I usually have everything bedded so I dropped it and the new stock off at my gunsmiths that builds all my CF rifles and he bed the action to the stock for me. He wasn't thrilled about it because as we all know the Bmag at best is a fairly mediocre quality rifle as well as it is not an easy gun to bed the action. A lot of guys bed the barrel, particularly around those barrel rings, but very few if any actually bed any part of the action. I guess I was one of the lucky ones because with the exception of some ignition issues early on which I was able to fix myself my Bmag or Bgag as many like to call them has shot and performed extremely well. Would I consider one a quality gun, not even close, but I certainly can not complain with how mine shoots and it still knocks the he11 out of sage rats way out there. What I notice between the WSM vs HMR is at distance the 17WSM just delivers a much hard hit with more splat factor than does the HMR as well as the wind doesn't push it around quite as much. Inside of 125-ish yards I can't say I notice a great deal of difference with regard to splat factor but you start creeping up on the 150yd mark and beyond and that is where the WSM really starts to separate itself from the HMR.

The 17HH, Hornady Hornet, in my opinion is in a completely different league. Not only is it a centerfire with much better quality guns but the factory ammo is considerably more consistent and the 17HH shoots the same 20gr Vmax the 17WSM does but it launches that same little bullet 650fps faster than does the 17WSM. I won't compare the 17HH to the 17HMR because, well, there just is no comparison, the 17HH is in a whole different league on all counts. Like some of the others here I have all three little 17's the HMR, WSM, and Hornady Hornet. They're the ones I take when I go sage rat shooting. The one I generally shoot the most for the last few years has been my 17WSM. I stocked up on 17WSM ammo early on when it was not only available but prices were low so I still have a pretty good supply of ammo for it. My two CZ 527 Varmint model 17Hornets are a lot of fun and deliver a he11 of a punch for such a little cartridge but I usually only bring those out when I'm in fields where the rats are skiddish and the only ones that'll pop up are out there at 200+ or ++ yards. When there's lots of them to shoot from 25-200yds the WSM and HMR are my "go to" sage rat shooters. I can't remember the last time I even took a 22LR rifle.

My WSM and Hornets are easily my favorites and my 17HMR's have become backups but if I were looking to purchase a new sage rat rifle right now, it wouldn't even be a choice and the only thing I'd be looking for would be a 17HMR. Ammo for the 17WSM and 17Hornet has become nonexistent. It's been nearly two years since I've seen any 17WSM or 17Hornet ammo for sale any place other than gunbroker and even then the prices were crazy high. Ammo for the 17HMR is just about everywhere you look and if you search around it can still be bought for affordable prices.

Also, there are quite a few really good rifles in 17HMR you can get. The Bmag is about the only available 17WSM you can get. I think Ruger still lists their 77/17WSM as something they make but I haven't seen one of those at a store for years. Same with the 17Hornet, there's very few options. CZ was one of the best 17Hornets you could get but CZ discontinued making their 527's a couple years ago so the only CZ 17Hornets you can get are grossly over priced used ones from private sellers. Ruger used to make a 77/17Hornet but like the 77/17WSM I'm not sure they still make one because it shows unavailable on the Ruger internet page. So that leaves only Savage with their model 25 as the only one making a 17Hornet and for me their model 25 isn't really an option I'd be interested in. Maybe if I didn't already have my CZ's and I really wanted a 17Hornet the Savage model 25 would interest me, but probably not.

 

I'd say 17hmr simply because of ammo availability. 17wsm probably won't survive long term. Which is a shame. I'd buy one in a nice bolt gun if I thought there would be something to feed it moving forward. Seems perfect for coyotes in the east. In southeast Michigan you can use a rimfire at night but not a centerfire.

 

New to the forums, also contemplating this same decision.

I'm curious... for killing groundhogs, is there an appreciable difference in how effectively/quickly ground hogs are dispatched between the 17HMR and 17WSM, other than potential max range?

 

New to the forums, also contemplating this same decision.

I'm curious... for killing groundhogs, is there an appreciable difference in how effectively/quickly ground hogs are dispatched between the 17HMR and 17WSM, other than potential max range?

I would say no difference. 17hmr is very good at making live groundhogs into dead groundhogs.

 

Thanks! My worry with the WSM is longevity....

A friend offered to sell me his heavy barrel Savage 93 in HMR for a good price. Digging on line, the BMags from Savage seem to shoot well in the target version (laminate stocks)....but we're moving up in price quickly.

I can start another thread...maybe would be better to, although my choice is between these two rounds. This is certainly a gun I can have some fun with, but it is also a tool I will use on a farm where the regs of the area are no centerfires and I'll be working to reduce the ground hog population for the owner. He badly wants the groundhogs and deer populations reduced. He and I have talked deer hunting as well and I am equipped for that, just need the right tool to knock back the ground hogs.

But that's what this will be.....it'll be a tool.

 

The biggest issue you'll have, right now at least, if you were to get any 17 WSM rifle would be the availability of ammo. Winchester hasn't made a run of 17 WSM ammo for about two years now so finding any on the shelf at a local store isn't going to happen. You can probably buy some off of Gunbroker but be prepared to pay a crazy high price for it. Winchester keeps saying they're going to do a run of 17 WSM ammo but I don't believe it's happened yet. I'm sure they will eventually but when, your guess is as good as mine.

 

It's possible it was the ammo. Even though most of it is made by the same company, just rebranded, nothing would fire as it should. I gave several boxes out of the same lot # to a fellow hunter and he had no issues. No more WSM for me.

 

Hopefully not a total thread derail… but for groundhogs would a 22wmr be preferable to a 17hmr?

 

Early on I was a 22mag hold out and didn't want nuttin to do with those speedy tiny little 17 HMR boolits. Then, I shot a friends and he couldn't hardly pry it from my hands the rest of the day. Within a day or two, I owned one and had my 22mag for sale. The only 22mag I've owned since is my PMR30.

To specifically answer your question, I'd say it would largely depend on the distance you are shooting. The 22mag bullets, even the 30gr Vmax ammo, has the ballistics about like a bowling ball so it starts slowing down and shedding energy very rapidly. Probably in that 50yds or less range and the 22mag could have a little advantage over the 17 HMR but even if it does, it's going to be minimal. Neither is a bench rest target cartridge but on the whole I'd say the 17 HMR typically out shoots the 22mag when it comes to accuracy so taking that into consideration, shot placement, especially when we are talking about killing stuff, will trump most everything else.

And before I get jumped on by any of the 22mag folks, that's not to say 22mags suck, because they don't. Over the years I've shot one about as much as anyone but due to their ballistics, or lack of, they start losing steam pretty fast where the 17's don't as much.

For groundhogs, in a 17 HMR, I'd use the CCI A17 ammo. It shoots the same 17gr Vmax but it's a little hotter and launches them 100 fps faster and delivers more energy.

 

My personal experience is that the 17hmr will hit the Gophers hard and works great but the 17wsm with hit em and turn them inside out. Way more pop factor and meat report (slap). As much as I like the wsm better I would recommend a hmr solely due to rifle choices and ammo availability. I haven't seem 17wsm ammo anywhere other than Gunbroker for two years and it's running at $400 and higher for 500rnds. You can easily finding 17hmr at $160/500rnds.

Find a 17hmr you like and it'll have a better action more than likely also. B-Mag actions can be frustrating when you close the bolt to short and bang the stock.