I try it once in a while. Never happy with the results. Sporting clays fine, Shooting for groups, just too much wind and ammo variation for me to get them tight

 

What has worked for me



Here is one of my better combos: CZ455 Varmint wearing a Nikon 6~18x40 Nikon Buckmasters with Eley Edge at 50 and 100 yards:

 

Based on 5 shot groups...anything from 1/4 inch to 3 inches or more.
Depends on conditions and my luck with cartridge quality.

This morning 50 shots at 100 yards across the chrony, 70 fps ES
with one ammo related stray, 2 inches of spread for the other 49 shots.

 

I stopped at the 100 yard range yesterday after finishing my shooting at 50. Just kinda "shot" quickly...9x power scope...cz 457 jaguar...

 

☝ 1.79 inches

 

I just checked results from previous 100 yard days....about 15 sessions...5 5 shot groups...this was with Custom 10/22...the 5 group averages ranged from 1.1 inches to just north of 2 inches....oddly enough federal automatch shot best groups....against eley, blazer amd mini mags...

 

My range buddy brought his CZ452 this past Monday and shot some Federal automatch he had found. He got surprisingly better groups @ 100 yrds. than CCI mini mags & the cleans.

 

Using Eley Tenex or RWS R-50 in my various "sporting" rifles 1 1/2" to 2" seems to be fairly repeatable , occasionally when the gods are smiling sub 1" will happen.

 

Should have specified these are for 5 shot groups : when I go for 10 shot groups the body of the group still stays within the above mentioned results but there is at least one, but, often two "flyers" which could be me ,the ammo or downrange wind gusts - who knows LOL ?

 

Don't have a target to show because I owned my model 93 heavy barrel before I had an Iphone.
I sighted it in on a very cold day and all except 2 or 3 groups stayed at an inch or less. I've never owned a more accurate rifle and like a fool I sold it.

 

Wind is a major factor at 100 yards. Down here in So. Florida we have much windier mornings in the winter. Typically, variable winds in the 12-14 MPH range. In those conditions it is nearly impossible to shoot a consistently small group. In the summer it is possible to shoot fairly accurately at 100 yards as the typical winds are in the 4-6 MPH range and the lulls are easier to read.

 

50 shot 100yd group fired in a vintage match.
The rifle - Win 75 with a 10x Liechert scope

 

Other than the shooter, three factors will significantly influence the size of the groups.

First is the rifle/barrel. The better the rifle/barrel, the better the results can be potentially.

Second is the ammo. Without good, that is consistent ammo with very few fliers, all will be at the whims of the gods -- no matter the rifle/barrel. No rifle can outshoot the ammo it's given.

Third is the wind. Shooting for precision (smallest groups) requires an absence of moving air between the shooter and target -- unless, of course, the shooter is very skilfully using wind flags. When the winds are changing direction or speeds along the flight path, it can spell trouble. A one mph crosswind will move a .22LR SV round up to .37" at 100 yards. The trouble is that when an air mass is moving only one mph, it can be very hard to notice.

The targets below were shot recently at 100 yards. The first target shows three ten-shot groups. The second target, dated yesterday, Aug. 6, shows a five-shot group (top left) in addition to three ten-shot groups.

 

I shoot almost exclusively from 100 yards because that's where the benches are set up at my range. All my .22 rifles are target guns with heavy barrels (with the exception of a couple) and are all highly customized.

If I only factor in when I'm actually trying to shoot good groups, meaning set up on bags or bipod/rear bag and using good ammo, I would say my average for 5 shots is somewhere around 0.8". That doesn't mean they're all that good, some go over 1" but some get down to .3's - .4's.

If I factor in just plinking and using bulk ammo then obviously that opens things up quite a bit.

 

My experience tells me that at 100 yards, in addition to knowing how to read the wind, the ammo makes an enormous difference. The table below shows the results of an extended test of some of the better match ammos.
The most accurate ammos were high quality match ammo.
Some moderate priced match ammo shot pretty well but was very lot dependent.

Lot to lot variations can be a factor.
1) Over a several year period, I bought two cases of Lapua Center-X and tested each case - difference between the average of 20 groups at 50 yards for each case with the same rifle during the same range session was 0.001 inch.
2) I bought one great lot of Wolf Match Target (fortunately I had bought a case) that was very good but never again was able ti buy a lot of any Wolf that was even near the accuracy of that case lot.

With 3 shooting buddies over a number of years, we have gathered data for 5-round groups shot at 100 yards with 13 of our 17 rifles, using only the good shooting rifles at 100 yards.
2 - Cooper 57Ms
1 - Winchester 52C
1 - Sako Quad
1 - CZ 455
7 - Kidds
1 - heavily modified Ruger 10-22 (only the receiver still a Ruger)

Note:
1) Lapua X-Act was only shot in the two best shooting rifles because it was $26 a box and only I would pony up the cash to buy several boxes of it. But it turned out to be the most accurate of all the ammos tested both at 100 yards and at 50 yards.
2) Eley Tenex and Match are made on the same production line reserved for Tenex. After lot testing in 6 Anschutz barreled actions, the Red Tenex boxes get filled with the lots that pass the quality test, the lots that don't meet the quality test go into Black Match boxes.
3) When these tests were performed, Wolf Match Target and SK Standard Plus were made on the same production line to the same quality tests at the Jagr Factory in Germany. Wolf has since switched it production to Eley in England.
4) Wolf Match Extra had to undergo a higher quality test. The Wolf Match Target results are biased by the great case of Match Target that I was fortunate enough to buy. During the time of these tests, SK and Wolf varied significantly from lot to lot.

---------------100 yard Accuracy--# Groups (Match)-----All Rifles---# Groups (All)
------Lapua X-Act 0.702-------------10-------------------0.702-------10
--Lapua Center -X 0.763------------121-------------------0.813------127
--Lapua Midas Plus 0.784------------256------------------0.820------233
------Eley Tenex 0.824---------------59-------------------0.870------162
----------Eley Match 0.888-----------43------------------0.907------224
-Wolf Match Target 0.949------------180-----------------1.152-------234
--SK Standard Plus 0.989--------------29-----------------0.989-------113
--Wolf Match Extra 0.992---------------8-----------------1.091-------404
-----SK Rifle Match 1.063-------------14------------------1.088--------7
--------------------0.861-------------720----------------0.917-----1514

 

1 inch or better would be from an exceptional gun and ammo. Typical from a good barrel and bulk ammo maybe 2 inches and for something like a stock 10/22 and bulk ammo about 3 or 3.5 inches.

 

I have a Remington 40X sporter I made from a HB target gun. With good ammo on a day without much wind I can get 1" or better groups. My favorite ammo is the FIRST gen Win. Power Points. And I get 1/2" groups with with it on good days with no wind.

To get the 1/2" groups consistently I have to have no wind, morning light, humidity about 60% and about 60 degrees air temp.

 

Even on days with no wind and optimum conditions,
it ain't easy producing sub-moa at 100 yards.
I can get lucky with a few random acts of accuracy,
but the majority of the time, the ammunition isn't capable of doing the job.
Thing to remember, how hard is it to find 22lr capable of 1/2 inch groups at 50 yards?
At 100 yards group size will triple. Half inch at 50 yards will be 1.5 inch results at 100 yards.
If y'er producing 0.25 to 0.75 at 50, expect 0.75 to 2.25 inches at 100 yards.
It's all mass produced rimfire ammo, we all have deal with the assembly line lottery.
Finding well made cartridges ain't easy.

 

jpicker,

Come to think of it, at least one of the conditions you mention (early morning shooting with light winds) rings true to the results in my table.
All of the groups were shot before Noon, mostly between 8 and 11 AM, when the winds were generally light.
However, for us, 5-round groups under 1/2 inch were relatively rare - much less than 10%- even on perfect days - probably as much due to shooter inadequacy, an occasional gust, and ammo variations than anything.

I can't say we were as fortunate with keeping temperature conditions around 60 degrees since we shot all year round, with temps often approaching 90 deg. in summer and often below 50 degrees in winter.
However, we did limit low temperature shooting to above 45 degrees because the powder-primer combination for even the best .22LR ammo tends to cause unpredictable drops below that temperature.

As for humidity, 60% humidity is a rare condition in Northern Virginia. I think we could count days with 60% humidity on one hand over the several years it took to shoot all the rounds included in that table.

 

jpicker,

Come to think of it, at least one of the conditions you mention (early morning shooting with light winds) rings true to the results in my table.
All of the groups were shot before Noon, mostly between 8 and 11 AM, when the winds were generally light.
However, for us, 5-round groups under 1/2 inch were relatively rare - much less than 10%- even on perfect days - probably as much due to shooter inadequacy, an occasional gust, and ammo variations than anything.

I can't say we were as fortunate with keeping temperature conditions around 60 degrees since we shot all year round, with temps often approaching 90 deg. in summer and often below 50 degrees in winter.
However, we did limit low temperature shooting to above 45 degrees because the powder-primer combination for even the best .22LR ammo tends to cause unpredictable drops below that temperature.

As for humidity, 60% humidity is a rare condition in Northern Virginia. I think we could count days with 60% humidity on one hand over the several years it took to shoot all the rounds included in that table.

About 20 years ago in Precision Shooting magazine there was a guy that did lots of testing with 22's. He wrote several articles on different things he did to improve rimfire accuracy. He made a custom 40X action from a remington gun that I can't remember what it was. One of the things he found was humidity played a big part in the performance of 22 ammo. He would shoot two spoilers then shoot 5 for group and he did it within a certain amount of time between shots so as not to let humidity gather back in the barrel and spoil the group size. I found that to be true for me too, living in a humid climate here in the northern rockies. The other thing he did was to fix the firing pin vibrations in a bolt. I don't remember what it was exactly. And he modified his trigger. There were several things he wrote on and from his testing he improved his group size. And he made a difference in group size with every modification.

I don't know what he did for a living but he loved number and formulas and used it to describe why he did what he did. He found that all firing pins created vibrations and he found a way to measure the vibrations and then fix the problem.

It was at that time I was making my 40X sporter and did these modifications to my gun. But one of the biggest things I learned is humidity makes a big difference.
I honestly think that the ammo gets the blame for things that could be fixed on the average target gun and paying attention to conditions. Not just wind and humidity but he talked on slow and fast mirage. When I learned of slow mirage my groups sized improved. There is less slow mirage in the morning and that is when I have consistently and repetitively shot my best groups. I have shot nine 1/2" groups at 100 yards on one target in the morning and then had a hard time getting one 5/8" group in the afternoon. Everything the same except for light conditions, humidity and mirage. The slow mirage has to do with how the light is bent the warmer it got.

The type of scope used made a difference. Again I don't remember offhand what was different about the scope he used. It had something to do with how light was transferred through the lenses.

I have all the old magazines in a box somewhere. I should try and find them and read them all again.

 

Your comments on humidity are interesting, but I'm not sure how I might adjust for it. I generally shoot my groups pretty quickly when the wind conditions seem optimum, or at least stable. I think wind changes have a larger contribution than humidity changes when shooting at 100 yards, but I admit, I have no data to back up that opinion.

Temperature plays a factor because most of the powders used in .22LR, at least years ago, was temperature sensitive.

A difference in temperature between 8 AM and Noon in the summer, at least in Virginia, can be 20 degrees or more. It gets even worse by 3 to 4 PM. That can not only create an increase in muzzle velocity but also result in increasing the mirage effects you reference.

I have done a lot of testing of the optimum scope power for .22LR rifles.
I started with 9 power max, then 15 power max, then 24 power max and finally to 36 power max. There was a significant improvement in accuracy at 15X, and a considerable improvement at 24X compared to 15X. Honestly, there was hardly any difference in group size between 24X and 36X but the 36X scopes I chose had thinner target reticles that I preferred because they made aiming more precise, especially at 100 yards.

All of my best 22LRs mount fixed power Weaver T-36 scopes with 1-inch tubes. Even though they are old, I use them because they came with target turrets that make moving the reticle from 50 to 100 yards easier since match ammo takes about 6.5 MOA adjustments to get a 50 yard zero to move to the zero at 100 yards. All of my 100 yard groups were shot using those old Weavers.

I find that the 1-inch tubes seem to be more conducive to seeing mirage than 30mm tubes.
I think an additional source of mirage comes from heated barrels in the larger calibers, even on cold days. Luckily, .22LR barrels don't heat up, even on really hot days, so the prime mirage impact comes from the temperature difference in the heat coming off the floor of the range creating air movement and the resultant distortion along the path to the target.

I only use 30 mm tube scopes for my .223, 6.5mm Creedmoor, and .308 rifles. Even then, those calibers are all conducive to barrel heating, so I have temperature strips on all my match barrels. I still see mirage effects even on cold mornings if I let the barrel temperature get too high.

 

It's weird how .22s work at 100. Today I did a lot of shooting at 100 with two rifles and about 6 different types of ammo. Where I shoot is a valley where there is almost no wind. My CZ MTR with SK shot one 10 shot group about 1.4 inches. Another 5 shot about 7/8 inch. But most groups ranged from about 1.5 to 2.5. My savage put 5 in about 7/8 inch with mini mags. But the average group with that rifle and ammo was about 3 inches. Both rifles with ammo they like will shoot 50 yard 5 shot groups you can cover with a dime. But it goes to hell at 100

 

It's weird how .22s work at 100. Today I did a lot of shooting at 100 with two rifles and about 6 different types of ammo. ... Both rifles with ammo they like will shoot 50 yard 5 shot groups you can cover with a dime. But it goes to hell at 100

Jaia's half-third rule of thumb is a good place to start.

Shooting for precision at increasingly longer distances may be looked at it this way. What's plainly easy at 25 yards -- shooting one hole groups of five or ten shots -- becomes much more difficult as distance increases. As distance doubles, .22LR group size almost invariably more than doubles. As a result, at 50 one hole groups become more elusive. At 100 they are the exception rather than the rule.

At places such as the Lapua testing facilities, ten-shot group sizes are recorded electronically at both 50 and 100 meters. These results are with the exact same rounds of ammo. By using ten-shot group data from Lapua test tunnel results at 50 and 100 meters, it's been calculated that on average group size will increase by a factor of around 2.8.

That means that, on average, a ten-shot group that's 0.5" at 50 will be 1.4" at 100 meters. Of course, some rifle/ammo combinations will be more, and some will be less. On occasion, some lots will have ammo that actually produces better results, MOA-wise, at 100 than at 50, but that's not frequent, nor can it be expected.

In a tunnel or outdoors under ideal conditions or expert wind flag use, if the rifle and shooter are sound, the most important component to good precision is always the ammo. If an ammo can produce good results at 100 yards, it can be expected to produce good results further out.

But ammo is not always consistent within a lot or even a box, even with top-tier ammo. Some random rounds from a box may be better than others, some worse. Add the effects of wind when shooting outdoors (a hardly noticeable one mph crosswind change can move a bullet .37" at 100) and the recipe is set for uneven results.

 

Myth, there's a rough rule for rimfire.
Half the distance gives you a third the spread.
Double the distance gives you triple the spread.
It's not exact, due to wind, but it works most of the time.
So if you see a half inch at 50, expect 1.5 inch at 100 yards.
3/4 inch at 50, 2.25 at 100 yards. It's not straight line spread.
It's a curve.

 

I shoot 6x5’s. This is what my best shooting rifle can do with good Ammo and minimal wind at 100 yards. Lately I’ve been shooting 300 yard 6x5’s.

 

Bottom left target aggregate about 1.3 inch vertical, 0.8 inch horizontal.
Better than I've been capable of lately. Nice! :t

Bottom right target aggregate shows about 1.5 inch vertical by 1.3 inch horizontal.
Still better than my last attempts.

I wonder how you'd do on a one dot one shot target at 100 yards?
Might be something to try....more of a challenge.
Looks to me groups is too easy for ya'.

 

Bottom left target aggregate about 1.3 inch vertical, 0.8 inch horizontal.
Better than I've been capable of lately. Nice!

Bottom right target aggregate shows about 1.5 inch vertical by 1.3 inch horizontal.
Still better than my last attempts.

I wonder how you'd do on a one dot one shot target at 100 yards?
Might be something to try....more of a challenge.
Looks to me groups is too easy for ya'.

I've been planning to do a 50 at 200, just haven't got around to it yet. Also five is easier. 😝

 

Interesting thread. It got me into thinking about all of the smallbore prone shooting I did "back in the day". The official NRA 100 yard smallbore target #A14 has a 10-ring diameter of 2.00" and a X-ring diameter of 1.00". Now think about competing and knowing that a 100 yd. any-sight prone score of 400 is a given, and you really should think along the lines of 400-40X+ to win. And consider that this is not off a bench!

 

Check out the leaderboard in the Ultimate 10-22 forum "One inch @ 100 yards" game. Cherry picked cards, ALL- I know it took me at least 3 range outings where conditions were right and several dozen targets to shoot the ones I have posted there. I would say the top 5 targets there are representative of what's POSSIBLE with good ammo, persistence, and all the stars aligned.
Most are shot by high end custom rifles shooting pricey SV target ammo that was lot tested. Double or even triple the size of my best card posted there for an idea of what my rifles will do consistently.

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462806

DrGunner