Hey everyone,

How much does facing off the end of the bolt to decrease the headspace help with accuracy? Has anyone done any tests? Does it affect the breech face any? Any info on this would be appreciated. Thanks everyone

Facing the bolt or "headspacing" is the biggest single thing you can do to your 10/22 to improve accuracy. Before I even touch a trigger group I headspace the bolt. Next is trigger but does't really improve the rifles accuracy, it improves the shooters accuracy

 

Word of caution. When you cut some off the bolt face, you will have to make a new extractor to fit the new demensions. The old one will not extract the shells. It does improve the accuracy, but you will have to make a new extractor.

 

The headspacing is already questionable as unburn powder can increase head spacing. That is just another reason to make it tight as possible. It reduces the variables that can change the ignition consistency.

I have never had any problems with extraction with my stock extractor so I am not entirely sure what the heck Gizzy is talking about?????????? The extractor does almost nothing with a blow back like the 10/22. It is really only for extracting live rounds. I have 5 headspaced stock bolts with no problems.

 

I have 4 factory Ruger bolts that are head spaced. I have Power Custom, Volquartsen and Factory OEM extractors in them and have no issues with extracting fired or un-fired rounds. None have been re-worked because of headspacing. Maybe I've been lucky.

H'fly

 

Facing the bolt or "headspacing" is the biggest single thing you can do to your 10/22 to improve accuracy. Before I even touch a trigger group I headspace the bolt. Next is trigger but does't really improve the rifles accuracy, it improves the shooters accuracy

I would disagree. The biggest accuracy gain from one single thing is rechambering to a match chamber. Beyond that a good crown is very important. Ruger's have terribly sloppy chambers and seting back the barrel and rechamber is amazing. On my current barrel Skeeter set it back an rechamber and groups were cut by up to 3 times. .6" 25 yard groups became .2" and .1" groups. I have never heard of making a headspacing change that drastic. Not to be arguemenative or nasty but that is what I have seen.

 

I would disagree. The biggest accuracy gain from one single thing is rechambering to a match chamber. Beyond that a good crown is very important. Ruger's have terribly sloppy chambers and seting back the barrel and rechamber is amazing. On my current barrel Skeeter set it back an rechamber and groups were cut by up to 3 times. .6" 25 yard groups became .2" and .1" groups. I have never heard of making a headspacing change that drastic. Not to be arguemenative or nasty but that is what I have seen.

I have had great results with head spacing. Plus, to accurize a 10/22 and make it a shooter, and not a bench gun, the cheapest and easiest is the headspacing. Makes bulk ammo much better and even make match ammo better. Match chambers are great IF you are going to use match ammo only but as a field, or even a good target gun, headspacing wins hands down in my book. After that there are a couple mechanical things like chamber and bedding that will improve a 10/22s accuracy but trigger jobs and such only make it easier for the "aimer" to use and don't really help the rifles accuracy.

 

Hey Mscales (sorry to slightly hijack) but when you say you headpsace the bolt do you mean you personally headspace the bolt or that you have it sent off and done?

I've been thiking about trying to myself but wasn't sure where to start (I got access to the materials to anneal and harden it after, a mill, and a surface grinder though I would imagine the surface grinder would be the quickest and easiest method of them all). Just curious, that's all...

 

Hey Mscales (sorry to slightly hijack) but when you say you headpsace the bolt do you mean you personally headspace the bolt or that you have it sent off and done?

I've been thiking about trying to myself but wasn't sure where to start (I got access to the materials to anneal and harden it after, a mill, and a surface grinder though I would imagine the surface grinder would be the quickest and easiest method of them all). Just curious, that's all...

A surface grinder will be the best way, yes. I've done a few of my own on a 9" circular sander, just make certain that the platten is squared to the disc and you'll be fine. Your only going to need to remove .001" - .003" so you won't need to reharden the bolt.

 

Just my experience.

Head spacing is a must to fully realize the benefits of a "match" chamber. It is however a distant second for improving consistency or accuracy. A good tight chamber is the number one way to improve the mechanical accuracy of your rifle over a Sporter chambered barrel. The crown is either good or bad and even the factory crown is just fine if uniform and not damaged.

I don't know where the idea of only shooting "match" ammo in a match chambered gun cames from but it isn't so. You can shoot about any ammo, except Stingers, with improved results. The roll stamp on aftermarket barrels that says, "Warning: Unfired Rounds May Not Always Extract" refers to the bullet being seated in the lands and applies equally to match or bulk ammo.

The stock Ruger extractors have worked just fine for Squawsach and myself with match chambers and head spaced bolts. We have never used an aftermarket extractor or made a custom one. The most we have done is a little sharpening of the original.

Head spacing the bolt at home can be done without annealing, if fact there is no way I would attempt to anneal and reharden the bolt just to headspace it. I have done it with just a good flat stone and a square and a lot of time and effort, I don't recommend this, its very tedious, but it can be done. What we have been doing is using a grinding stone in the drill press with a home made jig. Either way you are only removing about .007" of material. The Ruger shell pockets run about .050" in depth and the usual headspace target is .043" depth. Now, having a surface grinder is the ideal way to go.

So, head spacing will improve the location of the case rim in relation to the end of the barrel and allow more consistent firing pin strikes for more consistent ignition. This may or may not actually improve accuracy from a Sporter chambered barrel but it can't hurt.

Good luck.

sawdust

 

Hey Mscales (sorry to slightly hijack) but when you say you headpsace the bolt do you mean you personally headspace the bolt or that you have it sent off and done?

I've been thiking about trying to myself but wasn't sure where to start (I got access to the materials to anneal and harden it after, a mill, and a surface grinder though I would imagine the surface grinder would be the quickest and easiest method of them all). Just curious, that's all...

I do my own. Like RebelSquirrel says, there are a couple ways to do this besides a mill or lathe. I have found the bolts to be out of true when using a lath so it is harder to get into square.

As other have said, tight match chambers may procived more accuracy but I have found headspacing to be the single most improvement in a 10/22 that will consume a wide variety of ammo. Match chambers will provide excellent accuracy improvement but without headspacing you will not maximize that potential. Headspacing a stock 10/22 will improve accuracy without doing anything else. After this, anything you do will help with accuracy is done right.

Differing oppinions and ideas are what make RFC great. I know what has worked for me. There is a lot you can do to a 10/22 and I start with the bolt before anything else done. I guess I am saying that ALL bolts need to be headspaced but not all chambers are sloppy. Best advise is to go out and shoot the crap out of it and test a lot of different brands for accuracy and work from there.

 

Do after market barrels come with a match chamber? How bout the ER Shaw barrels from eabco?

 

I do my own. Like RebelSquirrel says, there are a couple ways to do this besides a mill or lathe. I have found the bolts to be out of true when using a lath so it is harder to get into square.

As other have said, tight match chambers may procived more accuracy but I have found headspacing to be the single most improvement in a 10/22 that will consume a wide variety of ammo. Match chambers will provide excellent accuracy improvement but without headspacing you will not maximize that potential. Headspacing a stock 10/22 will improve accuracy without doing anything else. After this, anything you do will help with accuracy is done right.

Differing oppinions and ideas are what make RFC great. I know what has worked for me. There is a lot you can do to a 10/22 and I start with the bolt before anything else done. I guess I am saying that ALL bolts need to be headspaced but not all chambers are sloppy. Best advise is to go out and shoot the crap out of it and test a lot of different brands for accuracy and work from there.

Again my experice is aactly oppostite. My stock 1976 bolt headspce measures .0445 to .045 depending where I measure it. The chanbers on every single Ruger "Rifle" rimfire or center fire has all been on the large to very large size. After setting my barrel back and rechambering that Skeeter did for me every single type of ammo including over 15 brands and types improved immensely. My best 25 yard group so far is a .058" five shot group shot with CCI Blazer ammo!!! Every ammo tried now goes under 1/4" average groups and this rifle will go , today, Onto Ricochet's 50 yard 13 mm (.513") Fun Shoot list. four out of 5 groups were in .4's and I fully take responsibility for the 1 group that did not make it (I am shooting with a pretty severe concussion). All this with NO bedding being done and with shooting with the factory barrel band in place. The 1976 stock is much tighter and the barrel band sqeezes the barrel on to a very well shaped pressure pad that later stocks do not have. The ammo fired to make the list was Fed 711B Match which did not shoot well in any of my guns before this barrel work was done.

As to reliability there is only one round that is has any trouble consuming and the is Federal AE22 American Eagle 38 gr hollow point copper coated. It will even funtion 100 % with AE22 if I put a drop of oil on the top bullet in the magazine. The accuracy change is astonishing across the board.

 

Do after market barrels come with a match chamber? How bout the ER Shaw barrels from eabco?

Most come with Bentz chamber which is considered a semi auto match chamber. Ruger makes a great barrel they just do a lousy job of chambering them.

 

Thanks for the info guys! I think I'll give it a try. Right now my best 5 shot group was 7/16" at 50 yards, average group size is 3/4". I have a fluted stainless bull hogue barrel and hogue stock and 3-9 bushnell scope. I tried all kinds of ammo and cci blazers shoot best in it. I have a the vq trigger kit with the trigger, hammer and sear in it. Also, I have glassbedded the front of the reciever and about 2 1/2" of the barrel using doc's method (the one where you make a recoil lug with a round file on the little black block that holds the barrel on). I think this rifle might be capable of better groups. I was also going to glassbed the rear of the reciever.

 

I bought a new pinned and headspaced bolt from CPC and got almost no improvement with the Wolf Match Target I use for falling plate matches. However now CCI Green Tag, which never shot well in this rifle now shoots as good as the WMT. I think it was well worth the price.

 

Ok guys, I headspaced the bolt and pinned the firing pin. My average 5 shot groups went from .750" to .660" with cci blazers. I'll need to shoot it some more and try different ammo again but the groups are much more consistant with the headspaced bolt. Thanks a lot guys!

 

I've always had excellent improvements with the bolt headspaced on the 10/22's, even with the better match barrels.

 

headspaced my friends 10/22 with a&b barrel and it really helped a lot. 10 shot groups inside a dime everytime.

 

Accuracy is a combination of things coming together correctly (in my opinion). For Ruger 10/22, this includes a match chamber in a good barrel, a proper bedding job, and proper headspacing - just replacing the bolt with a CPC bolt will not help a poor barrel. Kind of like putting a trued Remington 700 action back into the factory stock with the factory barrel - don't go there as it is not worth it without bedding and a new barrel.

Did the CPC bolt help accuracy after replacing the barrel and bedding the gun? - Yes it did. But would I have noticed it on a factory gun, I do not think so.

Just my $.02.

 

While I stand strongly behind my statement that rechambering will do much more for a factory based rifle with the crown being the next bang for the buck. Im not saying head spacing is not important. Accuraccy is a combination of things. My rifle for instance, the bolt IS headspaced, Who did it? Sturm Ruger and Company. I've never touched the head spacing yet it is .044 to .0445. Is taking .001" to .0015" off of my bolt going to suddenly turn it into a benchrest God? Before you do anyting, measure what you have. On a semiauto you certainly do not want to get it too tight because that can cause Slamfires. Somthing I would rather not contemplate.

It you bolt is even close to acceptable I would look elsewhere for you improvements.

 

How on Earth did you get a 'pretty severe concussion' and are you OK?

edited to add: Who is going to start the 'Styrofoam cup pad is best accuracy improver!' thread?

 

Asking me?

A fall, falling scares the crap out of me as I have osteoporris and any little fall could be my last from the standing position. I've broken my back 3 times, broken ribs so many times I've lost count....once just by rolling over in bed the wrong way. Broken toes at least 50 times. Have, depending on which doc you believe 6 to 9 compressed vertbra including one "burst fracture" That was the kind that did Chris Reeves in. Anyway I hit the side of my head and face on a door we have never been able to close because the jam is all tweaked. I closed it with my head, slpinters EVERYWHERE.

If you have ever had a bad concussion it is very, very strange thing to be inside of. A friend gave me a digital camera. I can read the directions and fully under stand what I read, put the instructions down and pick up camera and can't remember a word I read!! I was shooting grops with my CZ 527 Hornet and I would forget which aming point I was using on a target with about twenty diferent ways to aim in between shots. It is not fun........You really do not feel like yourself anymore.

I most be very careful in the next six months or so as another head injury could have severe consquences.

 

Yup, I was asking you Vincent. I am sorry to hear that... that is scary stuff. First time I ever had a concussion my brother cold cocked me. I woke up with some complete stranger picking me up out of the dirt. Had no idea who he was, where I was or why my head hurt so bad. Took about a week to shake that one off. Had a couple others... car accident... football. It really is a weird feeling to have someone tell you about something you can't remember happening at all.

I understand... take good care and with your osteo issues, just be careful! Can't be fun to go through any of that!

Mark

 

Did the CPC bolt help accuracy after replacing the barrel and bedding the gun? - Yes it did. But would I have noticed it on a factory gun, I do not think so.

Just my $.02.

*I* noticed it on a factory gun. Since I got my CPC bolt, i've decided against getting an aftermarket bbl. It shoots good for me.

 

Guys,

Wouldn't you think it safe to say its going to depend on the rifle as to what makes it shoot better. At least with the mass production rifles such as Ruger and the 10/22 LOL...

Heck I have played with more than a couple of these rifles over the years since I was a kid and like to stretch any and everything out for more than it had from the factory. Not two of these rifles ever been the same for as good chamber in both and a sloppy head space or vice versa. Its always some different combination of everything that adds to the end result of way less than what most of us here would like.

So, I think a person has the choice of to throw the rifle through the entire gambit of things here to address the accuracy, or you better be real keen in checking everything over to find the area that has the least amount of proper fit and finish, to just pick the single item to do in hopes of a big improvement...

Then we all know you can take the best setup money can buy and you still can't shoot the rifle to well until you get rid of the 8-10 pound trigger you squeeze and squeeze for all you got,the travel is 3/16" before it trips LOL...Nothing good coming from the best money spent on the other end, when you have this sort of a trigger...