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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks,I am learning. The "76" will be posted when it gets here. This 1890 is one of my favorites. It is NOT a refinish however,as KESTREL2 suggests. It IS in fact a 100% RESTORATION. BIG diference. I bought it from the gunsmith that did the work.In fact,I posted about him on another thread. There are several types of metal finishes used on this gun,and they were reproduced by the same methods that Winchester used. Everything on this gun was original to the gun itself. All screws,sights, parts,and even the wood, were on this gun when originally produced.The only thing on this gun,that is not original is the bore.The original barrel was used,but was re-lined. It is such a masterful job of re-lining,that you cannot tell. In fact,if you look at the muzzle {which is correctly in the white} There is no trace of the new lining to be seen. All parts that were originally case hardened from the factory,are case hardened on this gun. Its hard to imagine what the case colors looked like on original guns,because it was a fragile finish. Sweat,dirt,and sunlight all took their toll.That plus 80 or 90 years. What is normally seen,if there is any finish left,is very dull,and washed out.So worn out at times,that the only way to identify a case hardned gun,was by a serial number.I have never personally seen a original 1890 case hardened gun that was in a 100%,original condition,and the finishes were still as brilliant as when first sold. Not that there arent any,I just never saw one. At Cabellas gun library,when you go to the Winchester section,there is a picture of a lever action that is case hardened,and is the original finish. Altho it is faded,it shows clearly the brilliance these finishes had at one time. Also,check out the TURNBULL RESTORATIONS. Masterfull work. Brian.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi DEPUTY450. Thanks for the comment about my gun. I am still learning the photo thing,but I am going to try to get two pics in one post.Not sure if it will work,but here gos. By the way,if you want to see pics by someone who REALLY knows how to take pictures,check out REMBRANDT. Very appropriate nickname.Brian.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks "HG". This gun is one of my favorites. After I got the gun,I went to the range with 3 or 4 of my closest shooting buddies. I ran 50 rounds through the gun total,Actually WE ran 50 rounds through it.I wanted everyone to have a feel for what it was like way back when...... This gun was originally made in June of 1912. It was amazing how accurate this gun shot. Putting a rabbit on the table would have been a piece of cake. After we were done,I took her apart {yup,its a female,HA} cleaned her very meticiously,and retired her to the collection. At some point,this gun will pass into the hands of another,because the fact is,we never really own these. We are just lucky enough to have these in our possesion for awhile.I hope that whoever the next "OWNER" might be,he or she,will appreciate the care,workmanship,and history they hold in their hands. Its a fun ride while it lasts. Brian.
 

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I know this is a bit out of line for me to suggest but the Marbles Tang Sight combined with a Marbles front sight can allow you to enjoy shooting this gun until at least your mid 60's. By then it needs to be passed onto the new Winchester shooters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hi "HG" Not out of line at all. In the case of this particular gun,everything is original to the gun. I dont want to change the front sight. Its still got the patent date of NOV 4,1902 clearly legible. The rear sight is also,original to this gun. I wish this gun had been fitted with a tang sight,back in the day.It would most definitely be on here now. Unfortunatly,it was equiped with basic sights,and none of the optional sights offered by Winchester. I really have no urge to undo what Winchester did. The fact is,I could shoot the "CRAP" out of this gun,just the way it is. It really is sweet. I wish you could have been there on "RANGE" day. However,I prefer just to keep it in the configuration that Winchester sold it in. I know that a lot of rimfire guys like to shoot their guns,and I certainly understand. I have guns that are shot on a regular basis. My collector type guns are not. I will run some rounds thru them on occasion,but for the most part,I just want to preserve them the best way I can. In the near future I will be doing another range test of some of these "oldies". A M1903, a M63 and the much awaited M1873 lever gun. I will post the results,specs {and some pics} for everyone to check out. Hopefully,it will be interesting. Might even take some others along. Maybe a 69A target,or a M57. Who knows? Anyway,its gettin' late.Time to go. Brian.
 

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If your gun is circa 1912 it is not a restoration, its a refinish. Winchester stopped case coloring at the turn of the century. Im just a casual critic but I cant let misinformation about the 1890 slide. I have several models of every variation ever made, including two first models with authentic and original case colors. You are getting better with your camera.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
KESTRAL2. Sorry about the error. For some reason,I had another gun in mind.The serial number on THIS gun is 49669.Around July 1897. As I understand it,slightly more than 110,000 case hardened guns were built.That puts this solidly into the correct time frame. One more thing,and this is just speculation on my part. Considering Winchesters willingness to build special variations for customers,I believe it is entirely possible that some later guns,well beyond the "ADVERTISED" serial number range could have been ordered with case hardning.If I am correct,THOSE guns would not have been part of the general records that are published.Sorry dude. Back to the restoration!!!! Glad my photo skills are improving. Brian.
 

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Brian you are correct-a customer could probably order a special case color job but I doubt if Winchester could accommodate the order since their furnaces were all changed to do "charcoal blue". I have lots of "letters" from the cody musuem and have seen lots more and never have I seen or read one with the "case color" option. Its gotten to the point on the early guns that I wont invest in one without a letter.
Im just a casual critic. Im always in the market for a "deluxe" 2nd model if you know of someone who wants to sell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Interesting thing about the "factory" letters. For the most part,they were not very good at describing small details. Unless it was a particularly unusual gun,you generaly get just info about recieving and shipping the gun. I have three of them,and they are all like that.In fact,the last letter I got had the date of recieving the gun to the warehouse,and the date of shipping the gun reversed in the letter. I called the guy at Cody who researches the info,and he assured me that the info in my letter was exactly as entered by Winchester. He then went in to tell me that mistakes were not uncommon.Considering the price of the letter,I had hoped for more detailed info,but there was no info as to the optional sights on this gun,no info as to who it might have been shipped to,etc. Anyway,thats been my experience with factory letters. They are nice to have,but the info contained,at least in my letters was not very informative. Anyway,I dont happen to have the time frame for the oven change you mentioned at my fingertips,but its a safe bet it was not at the exact end of the run of the 110,000 case hardened guns.If it took place much after that,It is possible that additional case hardened guns could have been done on a special order basis. Again,this is just speculation on my part,and I have no facts to back up my theory. One thing I have learned about Winchester though. Nothing within reason,was impossible. Away from this,the serial number of my 1st model is 8960. I bought it from Donald Tusher. He was a formost collector of 1890,s in his day. In fact if you look in Schwings book,you will find some references to him,and his collection. Quite a character,and a very nice guy. Brian.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hi DEPUTY450. This IS the other side of the gun. Notice the takedown screw. This was NOT done by Turnbull. This was done by a master restorer named PAUL LIPPOLD. The place is called RONS GUN SHOP. Located in Oshkosh Wisconsin. If you are interested in seeing some of the finest work done today,go to his website. Much valuable info,and pics. The information on various finishes alone is worth the trip.Heres the link. www.ronsgunshop.com Enjoy. Brian.
 

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Brian you are quite correct in the conversion point from case color to charcoal blue. In fact dont rely on the 110,000 serial # as gospel. I have a second model in the 112,000 range that was definitely case colored though little color remains on that one. I believe Schwings book points out that "runs" were made of components before final assembly and some time passed before the new model emerged with "all" new parts. In transition, color case receivers could have been shelved for some time before being plucked for assembly. Ditto on the Cody Letters. Theyre better than nothing. If nothing more they verify caliber amd the "deluxe" class.
 

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Hi guys, Thanks for the friendly discourse on this subject ,i'm nowhere near as astute on these matters as you guys (a new collector) but this sure makes for an interesting and informative read. Thanks again (gn luver) Max W.
 
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