Why I Use a Balance Beam Scale

9855 Views 66 Replies 50 Participants Last post by chillypepper, 3 mo ago

doubs43

Discussion Starter · Oct 10, 2016

Over the past few years I've purchased three electronic scales; a Smartreloader that auto-weighs loads, an RCBS 750 and a Lyman 1500.

Not a single one of them stays stable, varying by .1 - .2 grains. It's irritating, to say the least.

I'm back using my nearly 40 year old Lyman D-7 balance beam scale. I set it at eye level, zero it and my loads don't vary by even 1/10th of a grain. Using a Lee dipper of the appropriate size and a trickler, I'm able to load as quickly and with more consistency than with an electronic scale that I have to re-calibrate often.

No more electronic scales for me.

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HectorFuego

· #2 · Oct 10, 2016

+1

'Nuff said.

Hector

Reactions: 1

PostalBound

· #3 · Oct 10, 2016

I just worked up my first 458 socom handloads this weekend and did
exactly the same thing. My old Lyman scale never falters or varies once
it is setup properly.

Reactions: 2

jkingrph

· #4 · Oct 10, 2016

I am using a RCBS 10 10 balance I purchased about 25-30 years ago, and would not consider an electronic scale. Before that I had a little Redding balance than required that you fill a reservoir with oil for dampening. I did a lot or reloads with that little balance, but got tired of cleaning out old oil that tended to get onto other things when I removed the beam with attached paddle. Another thing that made me doubt its accuracy was that it was metal knife edge on metal vs the Metal on much smoother agate on the RCBS, plus the RCBS is well designed and stores all parts in the base, with a sturdy plastic cover to contain and keep all clean.

I used some precision electronic balances back in college chemistry, and a few in pharmacy for compounding, and I guess being old fashioned just prefer a beam balance, plus no batteries or power supply to deal with, same with my calipers, Vernier vs electronic.

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gkcs

· #5 · Oct 10, 2016

The problem with the electronic scales mentioned is they all run cheap strain gauge technology which is prone to drifting, interference etc. I see so many starting out handloaders who go straight to cheap electronic because they are perceived to be more accurate. Just because the device has a digital display that doesn't make it "accurate".
I tried a Gempro 250 and was most disappointed with it - drifting the main issue. I now run a A&D Fx300i which uses force restoration rather than strain gauge. They are superb scales but cost many times more than the Gempro.

BTW I still have my old Ohaus D5 (in my possession now for 49yrs and second hand when I bought it) - will never part with it. Have also just assisted a buddy get going and on my advise he has picked up an Ohaus 10-10.

desmobob

· #6 · Oct 10, 2016

Every electronic scale I tried "creeped" a bit as I used it and was not consistent. I still rely on a balance beam scale and most likely always will.

Tight groups,
Bob

doubs43

Discussion Starter · #7 · Oct 10, 2016

Thanks for the replies. They seem to verify my own experiences and conclusions.

gkcs

· #8 · Oct 11, 2016 (Edited)

jkingrph said:
Before that I had a little Redding balance than required that you fill a reservoir with oil for dampening. I did a lot or reloads with that little balance, but got tired of cleaning out old oil that tended to get onto other things when I removed the beam with attached paddle.

Ha ha the Redding was my very first scales as well. And yes the oil in the dashpot "climbed out" and ran down the sides of the column. Then dust stuck to the oil and so forth. 50 yrs ago now in my youth

and the scales were older than that as they were second hand. Replaced them with a second hand Ohaus D-5.

'ol shooter

· #9 · Oct 11, 2016

I have checked my RCBS Chargemaster against my mechanical scales, and it's pretty accurate. I notice that the slightest breeze will make it wander, as well as being anywhere near a fluorescent light source. I let mine warm up for 20-30 minutes before I calibrate it. I use it just as a scale when using a manual powder dispenser.

Ron AKA

· #10 · Oct 11, 2016

Still using a 50 year old Redding #1, and I don't believe there is anything as good on the market today. The absolute best thing about it is the oil well damping. You can adjust the damping to your heart's content by varying the level of the oil and the viscosity of the oil. If you go too heavy it will not be accurate due to "stiction", and if you go too light, you will be waiting forever to have it settle out. There is a wide in between space where it is quite reasonable to trade off your personal level of impatience vs accuracy. Only one thing to remember with this scale. Keep it level and don't tip the box over!!! If I needed a scale today I would look for a used Redding #1. They just don't make that kind of quality today.

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mals9

· #11 · Oct 12, 2016

I bought a Redding #1 last year and am very happy with it. I run it dry and dampen the movement with my finger at the level line and it settles down rather quickly. I do not load large runs so the time is not an issue. I got mine on ebay for under $20 delivered.

Mals

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Ron AKA

· #12 · Oct 12, 2016

mals9 said:
I bought a Redding #1 last year and am very happy with it. I run it dry and dampen the movement with my finger at the level line and it settles down rather quickly. I do not load large runs so the time is not an issue. I got mine on ebay for under $20 delivered.

Not sure how you can run it empty. I got the oil in mine too thin, and what I found was that very minimal drafts would start the scale moving from being stopped. Just me moving around would be enough. I use a bit thicker oil now, but I do cheat when I know I am close to the right weight and kind of pinch the pointer between my first finger and thumb to dampen it down, and then let go. Sounds similar to what you are doing, but I kept the oil.

TargetModel

· #13 · Oct 12, 2016 (Edited)

I use two scales. An RCBS 5-0-5 beam scale and a Chargemaster 750 I trust the beam scale more. But find that the electronic scale is as accurate. For some reason I just don't trust it as much. I hand pour each charge, then finish with a trickler and my Man Cave is a constant 72 F.

I measure each charge once on each scale. Very time consuming, but I have my SD consistently at around 5 FPS. Yes, I am that uptight.

Oh yeah, the Chargmaster will not hold zero and must be re-zeroed about every 3rd charge.

mals9

· #14 · Oct 12, 2016

Ron AKA
I load in my basement shop that does not have an air duct so I do not have drafts to speak of. I steady the pointer at the level line with the tip if a mechanical pencil and it settles tight down.

Mals

10ring1

· #15 · Oct 13, 2016

Ohaus for me 25 years and going strong

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

bulletnose

· #16 · Oct 13, 2016

Ron AKA said:
Still using a 50 year old Redding #1, and I don't believe there is anything as good on the market today. The absolute best thing about it is the oil well damping. You can adjust the damping to your heart's content by varying the level of the oil and the viscosity of the oil. If you go too heavy it will not be accurate due to "stiction", and if you go too light, you will be waiting forever to have it settle out. There is a wide in between space where it is quite reasonable to trade off your personal level of impatience vs accuracy. Only one thing to remember with this scale. Keep it level and don't tip the box over!!! If I needed a scale today I would look for a used Redding #1. They just don't make that kind of quality today.

I agree with you 110% ! I am still using mine, but one lesson I learned early
on was to turn off the ceiling fan while loading powder. :bthumb:

landshark

· #17 · Oct 13, 2016 (Edited)

There's a pretty interesting article on 6mmbr praising the old Redding.

http://www.6mmbr.com/prometheus.html

The accuracy ( deflection ) of the beam is really dependent on its mass.

If you dampen it magnetically it can affect your measurements because your best measurement is while the beam is swinging.

Bonanza made a really great scale called a model C with a lightweight plastic beam that you can find on ebay cheap. It's as accurate as the Redding but deflects more so it is easier to,read.

I messed around with scales quite a bit trying to come with a beam based auto powder measure and then found AMT/Lyman had built one in the 80's called the auto scale. They used a ohaus/rcbs 510 beam that is really heavily magnetically damped. They claimed it was accurate to 1/20 of a gr but it's really kernel accurate when it doesn't run on. It works by timing the tricklers rather than measuring the actual weight of the charge.

It's not hard to build an accurate scale.

While I was messing around with scales I built one out of an aluminum arrow and some Dixie cups that was real light and about 3 feet long. It would completely deflect if the weight was off a kernel.

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menof2amendment

· #18 · Oct 13, 2016

Hornady M scale for me. Heavy, adjustable leveling, consistent weight accuracy with every charge, confidence that I did each cartridge right = accurate shooting.

cfplinker

· #19 · Oct 15, 2016

I have a C-H which is very much like the Redding scales pictured above. I use it without oil but take the readings "on the fly". For example, let's say I am measuring 50 grains and the pointer is swinging between + 0.6 grains and -0.2 grains with the poise set at 50 grains. I take the difference in the high and low and divide it by 2, then add that to the low reading. So 0.6 -(-0.2) is 0.8. Half if this is 0.4 which is added to the 49.8 low reading to give 50.2 grains. Or I could subtract it from the 50.6 grain high reading and get the same thing.

This is much quicker that waiting for the pointer to settle down which I have done as a check on my calculations. I did add markings to my RCBS 505 so I can measure the same way. However the magnetic damping slows the beam down quicker than the undamped beam on the C-H. For the 505 I average two high readings and use the low reading that was between them. Other than that the process is the same.

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Lyn P

· #20 · Nov 20, 2016

I have had RCBS digital gave it away, purchased PACK and tried using it for powder. Pull the old D5 out and still use it. I use the PACK for sorting bass and it works well. But I just found an M5 Lyman/Ohaus, and have been comparing D5 to M5. I use Lyman Shooter Weight Check Set. I have found the M5 to be more repeatable and more accurate than D5. But the D5 is 100% better than any digital I have used. I use my smart phone with magnifier app with it you can see 1/4 of one tenth. If you have a webcam it would be better. The smart phone app is battery eater.

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