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what to expect

795 Views 17 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  ftstinyc
Late in the spring I picked up a model 41 from 1967 with the original 7 3/8" barrel and a later edition 5 1/2". It's been a wild summer and I've not had much chance to really shoot it carefully -- just some quick function checks.

What can I expect as typical for the reasonably experienced shooter with whatever ammo it likes best from sandbags at 25yds?

I know it will always shoot better than I ever will.

Thanks
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PlumberjimC said:
What can I expect as typical for the reasonably experienced shooter with whatever ammo it likes best from sandbags at 25yds?

I know it will always shoot better than I ever will.

Thanks
As far as using the open sights from a rest I would guess around an inch or so?

At the moment my 41 has a non PA 4X Leupold mounted on it. I am going start finding out what ammo it is most accurate with , especially at 50 yards since this is my bullseye gun. A few weeks ago I did shoot a 25 yard 10 shot group which can almost be covered by a dime using Federal std vel ammo.

I am going to mount a more powerful PA scope on it soon to eliminate any parallax issues and allow more precise aiming at 50 yards.
 

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This is some of the group sizes i shot with my 41 using CCI std vol.

9- 10 shot group average .573 with 7" barrel and 2x6 Bushnell scope with a rest at 25 yds.
9-10 shot group average .635 with 5.5 barrel and a 1.5x6 S&W scope with a
rest at 25 yds.

The reason there is 9 groups is because there were 9 bulls on each target.
I did have some Lapua super club that shot slightly better but I don't seem
to have that record on hand. I never have tried Wolf but I am going to. My
gun is about 2 years old so it is a later gun.
 

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PlumberjimC;

Try Winchester Dynapoints, available at your nearest Wally World(Wal-Mart. Inexpensive, standard velocity, clean shooting and best of all extremely accurate in my 41. Enjoy your Smith, it's a great pistol and you will never wear it out.
 

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Where did you get the velocity information on the Dynapoints? (Winchester does not list them on their website, or at least not where I could find them.)

I include Dynapoints in my spreadsheet of most 22LR ammunition (see http://www.flat5.net/22LR_velocities.html) but had to leave a lot of blanks because I couldn't find an authoritative reference for the velocity.

Thanks in advance.

--
Ed Skinner, [email protected], http://www.flat5.net/ (shooting notes)
http://conventionalpistol.blogspot.com/ (shooting blog)
 

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I've got a 41 from about 1985.

It likes CCI standard velocity - CCI Green Tag and Pistol Match shoot about the same size groups, maybe a bit tighter.

Wolf MT shoots about the same as Green Tag but the excessive greasy/waxy bullet lube makes it not worth it for me, too much bullet lube accumulates and causes malfunctions.

Eley Standard Pistol is a tad better than the others but may need some recoil spring tuning for reliability.
 

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eskinner said:
Where did you get the velocity information on the Dynapoints? (Winchester does not list them on their website, or at least not where I could find them.)

I include Dynapoints in my spreadsheet of most 22LR ammunition (see http://www.flat5.net/22LR_velocities.html) but had to leave a lot of blanks because I couldn't find an authoritative reference for the velocity.

Thanks in advance.

--
Ed Skinner, [email protected], http://www.flat5.net/ (shooting notes)
http://conventionalpistol.blogspot.com/ (shooting blog)
Go
to the ammo forum and run a search on Dynapoints. All the information you
want is there.
 

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I'm impressed with the groups mentioned in this string. Tighter groups than most magazine tests on any pistol/revolver positioned in a Ransom. Serious competitors?
I'm old, and maybe not so good, but I shoot a lot of different handguns at 25 (meters, not yards, 81 feet compared to 75 feet in 25 yds), standing, two handed, and I'm thrilled if I can keep all my shots on a 5" shoot-n-see bull. Most at the range I shoot at consider me to be quite a good shot.
Cap'n Tom
 

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skoda said:
PlumberjimC;

Try Winchester Dynapoints, available at your nearest Wally World(Wal-Mart. Inexpensive, standard velocity, clean shooting and best of all extremely accurate in my 41. Enjoy your Smith, it's a great pistol and you will never wear it out.
Dynapoints are not standard velocity. See the link in the previous message or, to ferret it out for yourself, go to http://www.winchester.com/, click Questions, click FAQ, and search in "Ammunition" for "Dynapoint" (but not "Dynapoints"). It says, "The Dynapoint is the same cartridge as the WW22LR ..." and, if you follow the link to that cartridge, you'll see these are the Wildcat cartridge. They are definately high velocity.

And my 41 does *not* like high velocity. I get stove-pipes and I think an ammunition that is stronger than what the gun was designed for may be fully compressing the recoil spring and shortening its life to say nothing of possible peening if the slide motion is bottoming out against the frame.

But, fair is fair, so I will add that I've read reports from owners of the 41 that shoot high velocity ammunition all the time and say it doesn't hurt their gun.

But you won't see me shooting it.
 

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Cap'n Tom said:
I'm impressed with the groups mentioned in this string. Tighter groups than most magazine tests on any pistol/revolver positioned in a Ransom. Serious competitors?
The original post asked what kind of accuracy was possible using a rest. And when adding a scope along with benchrest the groups using a 41 can get pretty tight.There was test of a 41 on a bullseye site where sub one inch groups were made @ 50 yards and these were 10 shot groups!

Cap'n Tom said:
I'm old, and maybe not so good, but I shoot a lot of different handguns at 25 (meters, not yards, 81 feet compared to 75 feet in 25 yds), standing, two handed, and I'm thrilled if I can keep all my shots on a 5" shoot-n-see bull. Most at the range I shoot at consider me to be quite a good shot.
Cap'n Tom
It sounds like you are a good shot - better than a lot of folks could ever hope to do! But like I mentioned - shooting from rest is much diferent than off hand. In the target below I have a 10 shot group fired with a non PA 4X Leupold from a rest - even with the fliers it is about .65" center spread. And the bullseye target was shot one handed with a dot sight at the same distance - it is a 50 shot group.

 

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Don't care what Winchester says they are not the same. Wildcats are lead
rd nose. Dyna's are copper wash with a slight hollow point. Wildcats are 1255
fps. Dyna's are 1150 fps. Shoot them side by side and you will see the differents. Run a search under the ammo forum and you will find all of this
information. I have shot both and they are not even close. Dynapoints were
at one time only sold to K-mart and that may be the reason you don't see
them on Winchesters site. WD22LRB which are Dynapoints were the same as
W22LRB which I don't see on the winchester web-site anymore. Where the
WD were sold to K-mart only the W was sold to other retailers. Now that
anyone it would seem can purchase The dynapoints it would seem that
winchester has dropped the std W22LRB. BTW the W22LRB came in packs of
550 rds where the WD comes in 500rd packs. Like I said I have shot wildcats
and Dynapoints and they are different.
 

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ftstinyc said:
Don't care what Winchester says they are not the same. Wildcats are lead
rd nose. Dyna's are copper wash with a slight hollow point. Wildcats are 1255
fps. Dyna's are 1150 fps. Shoot them side by side and you will see the differents. Run a search under the ammo forum and you will find all of this
information. I have shot both and they are not even close. Dynapoints were
at one time only sold to K-mart and that may be the reason you don't see
them on Winchesters site.
I tried Dynapoints in my 41 and had about the same number of stovepipes as I do with ammunition that is marked "High Velocity." On the other hand, when I shoot ammunition marked "Standard Velocity", I don't have that problem.

Winchester's statement matches my experience.

Concerning the velocities listed at http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46452, I can't argue with what the tester claims but I do note that his measured velocity for CCI Standard Velocity is 1155 whereas CCI says it is 1070 (go to http://www.cci-ammunition.com/default.asp?menu=1&s1=4&s2=8 and page down to "Target / Match Ammo" and find "Standard Velocity" therein and then click the "Detail" button).

In defense of the measured velocities, I will speculate that perhaps it was a warm day? I say this because I was shooting subsonic ammo once and it had trouble cycling the action completely -- more than once the gun simply re-chambered an already spent round so the slide did not go back far enough to engage the ejector. At that meet, another shooter suggested I warm the rounds under my non-shooting arm and then keep loaded magazines in my pocket so they would be warm when fired. That seemed to work because I had no more cycling problems.

I guess my strongest argument against Dynapoint ammunition in my 41 simply has to be my own experience with it. It was not as reliable as I wanted and so I don't use it.

My best regards to one and all.

--
Ed Skinner, [email protected], http://www.flat5.net/ (shooting notes)
http://conventionalpistol.blogspot.com/ (shooting blog)
 

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I shoot both CCI std and Dynapoints in my 41 and they both shoot just fine.
The CCI is a little more accurate at 25 yds. The best ammo that I have shot
in my 41 for accuracy has been Lapua super club. Stuff is greasy though. Wolf
MT also shoots well but also is greasy.
 
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