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trying to get more out of 77/17 vmbbz hmr

453 Views 7 Replies 4 Participants Last post by  507 brett
Got a deal on one a while back and put a vortex 6-24x50 scope on with a warne weaver base mount and i want to get it to shoot better. since i bought it the best it has done is about a half inch group at 50yds with the federal 17gr, and haven't shot a group similar since. it shoots okay with hornady vmax and cci tnt, but not what i want it to do. the trigger has been lightened to about 2lbs and the barrel floated. now it strings the cci ammo to the left and puts the hornady 17gr in a triangle to the right of the crosshairs. i have shot a 10 shot group with the 15.5 lead free winchester ammo before floating the barrel and six shots went into a penny size area with two flyers to the left (one high and the other low) and two flyers to the right the same. that group with the flyers is like 3inches. i know its not a CZ, but i really need the gun to shoot better than my buddy's savage 93 with bull barrel. we usually shoot 100yrds (unless its windy) and if it can shoot a nickel size group consistently with 17 or 20gr i will be happy with it. some days i can shoot about a quarter size group at 100yds but not consistently. i am thinking that a GM barrel will help it a lot, but i have heard that getting the bolt worked on is the ticket. then again i have heard that it really wasn't a great improvement.
i usually shoot off a bipod and a sandbag under the buttstock, which shouldn't give as good groups as a benchrest or good sandbags but honestly i shoot tighter groups off the bipod than off bags or a caldwell leadsled. i let four others shoot the gun both off bipod and off bags and they had similar grouping.
if i were made of money i would get the GM barrel and then have the bolt worked but i can really only afford one or the other and am leaning towards the rebarreling it. any advice?
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Randy at CPC may be able to help

Take a look here: Website: http://community.webtv.net/RandyAtCPC/
Randy is a RFC sponsor too.

Randy did his magic on my Ruger 77/17 and it shoot great. And remember you are shooting a jacketed bullet, which means copper will accumulate. In that little bore, it does not take much to degrade accuracy. Clean well. Pay attention to the chamber and throat. You may need to clean every 50 to 100 rounds. Wind is always a factor. While less wind drifting than with the .22 Long Rifle, it still gets pushed around easily. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
i forgot to mention the weird part.. which is why im leaning toward the GM barrel so much.
for a while the gun would shoot inside a quarter for about 10 or 15 rounds and then start fouling. i had to clean the bore every 15 rounds regardless what ammo. so i got frustrated and stopped shooting it for a while. i thought that maybe lapping the barrel would help, when we floated it we shot about 30 rounds and then cleaned and lapped the barrel and cleaned again, lapping didn't help at all lol.
 

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You say it shot better before you floated the barrel? There in lies the problem, if i were you i would bed the front of the action (especially if its got a v block holding the barrel in)up to and including the v block and i think this will help you out. I've been playing around with a couple 10-22's and am finding its very important to have the v block bedded for best accuracy!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
it shot a few good groups before floating, but not consistent and the more i shot it the worse it got seemed like. i had to clean it every other magazine i ran through it because it would start fowling really soon. not sure why though, it takes more than 20 rounds for copper plated ammo to gum up a barrel...?
but since floating it shoots a lot more consistently just not as good as i want it too. overall floating helped i think. it took a lot of wood removal to get the channel cut out. barrel must have had a ton of pressure on it.
 

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# of rounds to foul a barrel...

I think the number of rounds to foul a barrel depends a lot on many factors. Some barrels get made right and the owners don't get them too hot. They may go a long time without fouling. Others have problems right off the bat, and some are never made right. The smaller the hole, the more adverse effect fouling has on accuracy. Imagine fouling at the start as the size of a single grain of powder. In a .17 bore, it plays a larger role than in a .50 bore. Fouling is a combination of the jacket material and the powder residue. Cleaning the bore means getting rid of both. I have never liked copper solvents and if you feel compelled to use them, do not leave them in the bore any length of time, they can do damage to metal. If you feel you need to clean too frequently, consider lapping the barrel, or having it done for you. Good luck.
 

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I have several rugers and I have noticed that Ruger barrels tend to shoot better the more you use them.... My 17 mach 2 VBZ is shooting more consistently now than it did when it was new. I haven't touched the bedding, done nothing just shoot it, enjoy it and not fret about group size. I nail squirrels out to 100 yards regularly and they don't seem to notice "group" size much unless a bullet happens to whiz by. There are so many things we can't control including wind shifting the bullets path that I accept a miss in the fied as being one of those things you just have to live with.

Even if everything is shooting perfectly, you can still pull the shot off target if you can't time the natural occilations with the trigger sqeeze.

1/2 inch groups at 50 yards should be easy with the HMR. Maybe it's the gun, Maybe it's the ammo and maybe it's your bench rest methods. I can't judge till I've picked up the gun myself and tried to put a few rounds down range on target. One other thing that it could be is your scope. You are not using a Weaver or Nikon or Burris or Leupold. I've had good luck shooting groups with cheap Tascos but the thing is it's an item I would question as well as your mounting screws and V block screws if you get inconsistent groupsings.

Even my 223 shot better after putting some round down range. HMR ammo is not cheap but it may require you put a few hundred rounds to a few thousand rounds down the barrel before it starts to sing your tune. You may find that hand lapping the barrel smooths things out and helps your accuracy improve. Just a thought. rc
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
i have already lapped the barrel and it didnt help, maybe more lapping could smoothe out the bore though. and shooting it more would probably help but by the time i pay for the 1000+ rounds and shoot it i could have bought a GM barrel and shot it a little to break it in. which, if the GM barrels for the 77's are like the ones for the 10/22 then i dont think it would take more than a box or two of ammo to break in because my GM bull barrel on one of my 10/22's didnt require many rounds to start shooting quarter size at 50yards. (which was a huge improvement from 2" groups that it was shooting and quarter size at 50 is pretty good i think considering it still has the stock trigger and a small scope)
what concerns me with the bolt is the fact that it is two piece and may not lock up the same every time i push another round into the chamber. i thought about the slop in the bolt effecting the headspace, but once it is closed everything it tight so i dont think that headspace would change at all from round to round. but could the bolt slop between the two pieces allow the bolt to go crooked or anything when closed?
 
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