News to me if it is? They had some issues awhile back, mostly some that wanted to drag the organization in a direction it wasn't intended. Anytime you get a mix of strong minded individuals there'll be some dust ups. The only thing that matters to me are the folks on the line. What happens in cyberspace or individuals 2000 miles away doesn't effect that at all.....O.L.
Trouble with Appleseed Org?
So, is Appleseed alright? Reading here, I gather that there's some kind of internal drama going on. That's too bad. Can anyone summarize what's actually happening?
I don't follow Appleseed that closely. I haven't been to an AS since last August, nor do I read Appleseed's own forum.
That said, I still like Appleseed. The AQT is fun. The shooting fundamentals are timeless. The history lessons can be fun (depends on how it's presented--I've seen people walk out after burning a most of Saturday listening to awful monologues and zero AQT's). Even if the organization splits or dies out, I'll still be shooting 1" squares at 25 meters with iron sights, and I'm sure you all will be doing the same.
I don't follow Appleseed that closely. I haven't been to an AS since last August, nor do I read Appleseed's own forum.
That said, I still like Appleseed. The AQT is fun. The shooting fundamentals are timeless. The history lessons can be fun (depends on how it's presented--I've seen people walk out after burning a most of Saturday listening to awful monologues and zero AQT's). Even if the organization splits or dies out, I'll still be shooting 1" squares at 25 meters with iron sights, and I'm sure you all will be doing the same.
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May I ask, what were the competing directions and intentions?
Sure!...At the next shoot!
It doesn't do anyone any good in public forums...O.L.
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All I can gather from your responses so far is that something went down that people are not comfortable talking about. ...and that's exactly why I want to know what went down.
Well, considering I have no idea even which state you're in, I could just write you off. Are you playing games, or are you actively engaged in a coverup?Sure!...At the next shoot!
Here is my take:
Your experience with Appleseed is highly dependent on the folks running your particular Appleseed event at the local level. Whatever the drama, if your particular instructors are good, you will have a good Appleseed and learn a lot and have fun.
I did an Appleseed a couple years ago. I find out just how bad a shot I was (am). I came in with a new rifle, experienced a lot of new rifle problems, worked through them, and learned some basics.
Since then, I went unemployed for a while, found a job, and have now upgraded my 10/22 with trigger, scope (though better sights would have done the job too), and have a lot more shooting under my belt. My first Appleseed experience was positive... enough so that I am going to do a few more until I make Rifleman.
In short, pay no attention to the drama. Unless you plan on becoming an instructor, the drama will (most likely) not affect you or your experience.
Your experience with Appleseed is highly dependent on the folks running your particular Appleseed event at the local level. Whatever the drama, if your particular instructors are good, you will have a good Appleseed and learn a lot and have fun.
I did an Appleseed a couple years ago. I find out just how bad a shot I was (am). I came in with a new rifle, experienced a lot of new rifle problems, worked through them, and learned some basics.
Since then, I went unemployed for a while, found a job, and have now upgraded my 10/22 with trigger, scope (though better sights would have done the job too), and have a lot more shooting under my belt. My first Appleseed experience was positive... enough so that I am going to do a few more until I make Rifleman.
In short, pay no attention to the drama. Unless you plan on becoming an instructor, the drama will (most likely) not affect you or your experience.
No, just the opposite, won't get sucked into the games!
Just say it was nothing that changes the good things for those that attend. It is the best marksmanship/heritage program going, period. I wish something like this had existed years ago. rdhood, go get em! :bthumb: ....O.L.
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Basically the leadership in one state last year started doing stuff their own way (different points of instruction and different history) and the top guy told them to do it the way it was designed. They thought they knew better and refused to go back to the designated way. They were senior instructors and good people. They may have been right or they may have been wrong but it was not their program. They couldn't reconcile their egos. A couple of them were un-volunteered which caused some others to quit in support. It really only affected a handful of people in that state. Unfortunately it caused some bad blood and some people not directly involved have found it necessary to spread rumors and innuendo about problems in the program.
I don't think anyone can say that what Appleseed does is not good marksmanship instruction and not good history. The stuff works and as a result Appleseed continues to grow and make riflemen. Everything else is just Foo-Foo.
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My understanding is that some folks wanted to take it down a path of grass-roots political organizing, trying to increase patriotism and focus on the historical side. Think of it as "Tea Party-lite, minus the kooks."
Fred rightly stuck with the original purpose, ie: to recreate a nation of riflemen by teaching marksmanship fundamentals & exposing the attendees to the historical events that led to our unique national character.
My further understanding is that this is all *old* news, having been all resolved some 4? or 5? years ago (or more) by now.
Or were you referring to just the fact that Appleseed has been growing so quickly that it has a hard time keeping up w/ itself?
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OK, thanks for explaining. I agree that Appleseed is an excellent program. Having recruited several novice shooters into the program myself, I do sort of feel responsible for them should Appleseed take an unexpected turn.No, just the opposite, won't get sucked into the games!
As for the "tea party lite" angle, well, I've been mainly to Seeds that are purely non-political. However, one was anything but. One of the red hats actually broke down crying while recounting the 3 strikes of the match, and it weirded the heck out of just about everyone there. Afterwards, the explanation was "well, you can read between the lines..." That was a Saturday. Guess how many new shooters came back on Sunday?
Despite all that, I want to support Appleseed in spirit of Fred's original idea. Or, failing that, move on to some kind of AQT-shooting sport while attempting to preserve as much of the heritage as possible, minus the kooks.
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Appleseed is not taking any unexpected turn, or even an expected one.
I've watched as Red Hats telling the Three Strikes become emotional in their telling of the story. Many times I've been right there with them. How can you not be moved hearing of the sacrifices made and the lives placed on the line and of the lives lost, by men and women both, all to secure Freedom and Liberty. If you find something in the story that reminds you of something that is going on today, you are free to do so. IMHO, tyranny is just as wrong today as it was in 1775.
I've heard of the issues. You know what, they have had no effect on the program, the instruction or the goals of Appleseed.Despite all that, I want to support Appleseed in spirit of Fred's original idea. Or, failing that, move on to some kind of AQT-shooting sport while attempting to preserve as much of the heritage as possible, minus the kooks.
Marksmanship and the Heritage of April 19, 1775 is what we are about, nothing more, nothing less.
Just MHO.
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First AS Shoot Scheduled at Our Club
This is the first I've ever heard of any such speed bump, but it would surprise me if any organization does not encounter one at least occasionally.
Competition, ego, and conflict are human nature, and every organizaiton I've ever been involved with - Volunteer Rescue units, Churches, Sporting Clubs, Veteran's Organizations, you name it - all seem to stumble from feud to spat to cluster-foodle on a regular basis, but most of them seem to survive it all in the end.
After a year or more of my advocacy of hosting an AS event at our club here in Maine, we finally got the membership to vote for the go ahead, and an application has been submitted to hold a shoot here in June.
It's not up on the schedule yet, but should be any day now.
All I know about AS is what I've read in Fred's pages in the Shotgun News, the website, and what a "Red Hat" Instructor I'm acquainted with has told me. One of our Board Members knows him too and has a positive opinion of AS which helped to seal the deal.
This will be a brand new experience for this club, and I am looking forward to it. Haven't decided quite yet if I'm going to shoot it or cook for it. We have a pretty good kitchen in the clubhouse and planning to provide basic meals and refreshments for the event. I'd love to put on a traditional New England bean hole bean supper Saturday night, but that's pretty labor intensive and don't know if we can pull that off just yet.
This is the first I've ever heard of any such speed bump, but it would surprise me if any organization does not encounter one at least occasionally.
Competition, ego, and conflict are human nature, and every organizaiton I've ever been involved with - Volunteer Rescue units, Churches, Sporting Clubs, Veteran's Organizations, you name it - all seem to stumble from feud to spat to cluster-foodle on a regular basis, but most of them seem to survive it all in the end.
After a year or more of my advocacy of hosting an AS event at our club here in Maine, we finally got the membership to vote for the go ahead, and an application has been submitted to hold a shoot here in June.
It's not up on the schedule yet, but should be any day now.
All I know about AS is what I've read in Fred's pages in the Shotgun News, the website, and what a "Red Hat" Instructor I'm acquainted with has told me. One of our Board Members knows him too and has a positive opinion of AS which helped to seal the deal.
This will be a brand new experience for this club, and I am looking forward to it. Haven't decided quite yet if I'm going to shoot it or cook for it. We have a pretty good kitchen in the clubhouse and planning to provide basic meals and refreshments for the event. I'd love to put on a traditional New England bean hole bean supper Saturday night, but that's pretty labor intensive and don't know if we can pull that off just yet.
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Good Seventh Stepping!!! :bthumb:
Hope you have a great event.
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How many MOA are the mosquitos in Maine in the month of June?
Was that a winged moose?
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