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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Do any of you have an issue with your trigger guard cracking where the slide hits it? I noticed this a few months ago after ~5000 rounds. I used various ammo, from standard to high velocity. Since I noticed the crack, I've put about 1500 rounds expecting it to fail. No failure yet. I'm planning on ordering a new trigger guard from Brownells since I'm well pass the warranty period of 1 year and I don't think Sig will help me there. I didn't expect this to happen so soon, if at all. One would have expexted a beefier design from such a reputable company. I don't want to sound like I'm complaining, I love my trailside. I wish it was as well made as my other Sigs. Just curious how many of you have the same problem?



Also, are any of your magazines wearing away where it catches the release on the frame? It's to the point where the slide doesn't stay locked open after the last round. If I push the magazine up while firing, the slide will stay locked open after the last round. I've read other threads where people have tried different fixes, but I think this is just another method of failure with the same results. Another reason to hate plastic mags.



One more problem while I'm at it. That cheap trigger bar spring has been given me problems by popping out everytime I have to remove the grips. I also have to lay some tape over it to hold it in and put a thin layer of paper on top so the grip pushes up against it. If I don't have the layer of paper, the triger will stop working after a few rounds because the spring pops out. I don't think I installed it wrong, but you never know. There's only so many different ways you can install the spring in order for it to work properly. Can anyone show me a pic so I know it's in right?

Thanks for being patient.
 

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not as bad as yours, but soon will be

after reading your post, i took a look at my trailside with a 10X jeweler's loupe (magnifier) and discovered small cracks in the same area.

bummer! i thought all the bugs were out after sending this pistol back to sig twice (once for a new slide stop, second time for a complete new slide) but i guess not. it's really hard to accept the fact that a $500 pistol would have so much bugs. even if sig replaces this part for free, this would be the third time i would have to ship it (which cost $$$). don't know how much shipping cost would be vs. $24 plus s&h if you order the part from brownell's. you don't expect a disposable trigger guard on a $500 pistol!

as far as the mags and the latch notch, i would assume this would happen to any mag if it was inserted, removed, and re-inserted enough times. having the mag in plastic just shortens the time it takes to wear out the notch.

never had problems with the trigger bar spring. maybe i'm speaking too soon.

-rusty22
 

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please forward this to sig or hammerli

for anyone who knows a sigarms or hammerli engineer or employee, please forward this to them so they can get this issue fixed. at this point, i don't care who gets credit for it, as long as something is done to fix it.

after reading the previous post, i decided to take a closer look at the root cause of the trigger guard cracking.

here's the cause:
the recoil spring guide (which limits the slide's rearward travel) is allowed to travel an additional .066 inch past the upper shoulder of the trigger guard. this causes the shoulder to absorb some the force from the slide's recoil, causing cracks in the shoulder area of the trigger guard.


here's the quick fix for preventing a cracked trigger guard:
the recoil guide's length has to be increased (lengthened) by at least .070 inch so that the slide's rear travel is limited / stopped before it hits the shoulder on the trigger guard.


you can also address this issue by adding additional coils on the recoil spring so that recoil spring guide does not travel past the shoulder on the trigger guard.

i also have my own work around but it needs to be tested before i post it here. if it is successful, i'll do a complete how to so all trailside owners can have access to it. only thing is that i don't have full privileges here at rfc so i won't be able to attach pix. maybe someone who does, will offer to post the pix for everyone's sake.

can someone remove their recoil spring guide and measure it with caliper and tell me the length? i want to make sure that sig has n't already redesigned the recoil spring guide to be a tad bit longer. my trailside is an early series and i want to compare dimensions from a newer series trailside. my recoil spring guide measures 1.350 inch. thanks and i'll keep you guys posted.

p.s. don't forget to thank vtran96 for bringing this to our attention.

-rusty22
 

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Ditto Chim. Went through 3 Trailsides to get one that actually functioned properly (most of the time) Spent a small fortune in shipping charges. Then noticed the slide stop on the third one was being peened and cracking. Cut my losses and dumped it for a used Smith 17 K-22. My journey with the Trailside resulted in the worst beating I ever took on a firearm. "Accurate Junk"!

Rocky
 

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vtran96 said:
Do any of you have an issue with your trigger guard cracking where the slide hits it? I noticed this a few months ago after ~5000 rounds. I used various ammo, from standard to high velocity. Since I noticed the crack, I've put about 1500 rounds expecting it to fail. No failure yet. I'm planning on ordering a new trigger guard from Brownells since I'm well pass the warranty period of 1 year and I don't think Sig will help me there. I didn't expect this to happen so soon, if at all. One would have expexted a beefier design from such a reputable company. I don't want to sound like I'm complaining, I love my trailside. I wish it was as well made as my other Sigs. Just curious how many of you have the same problem?

http://www.thinkapex.com/pictures/img_1350.jpg

Also, are any of your magazines wearing away where it catches the release on the frame? It's to the point where the slide doesn't stay locked open after the last round. If I push the magazine up while firing, the slide will stay locked open after the last round. I've read other threads where people have tried different fixes, but I think this is just another method of failure with the same results. Another reason to hate plastic mags.

http://www.thinkapex.com/pictures/img_1377.jpg

One more problem while I'm at it. That cheap trigger bar spring has been given me problems by popping out everytime I have to remove the grips. I also have to lay some tape over it to hold it in and put a thin layer of paper on top so the grip pushes up against it. If I don't have the layer of paper, the triger will stop working after a few rounds because the spring pops out. I don't think I installed it wrong, but you never know. There's only so many different ways you can install the spring in order for it to work properly. Can anyone show me a pic so I know it's in right?

Thanks for being patient.
Sorry, but I don't see the cracks. I believe you, but I'm missing them. Can you repost the pix with indicators? I'd appeciate it!

As for the warranty, I'd ignore that and call SIG immediately. My safety broke after having it for more than a year. I spoke to some one at SIG, and they advised me to send the slide back, with a letter. Got it fixed pretty quicky. I think if you voice concern about SAFETY, they may be willing to fix their mistake. I've copied the letter I sent...please laugh :)

cheers

jonas

"August 31, 2005
SIGARMS, Inc.
18 Industrial Drive
Exeter, NH 03833

Dear SIG Folks:
I have enclosed the well-cleaned and cared-for slide from my SIG Trailside. While shooting a couple of weeks ago, the safety mechanism decided it would be happier as a non-working device. As you will notice, the safety is in the 'off' position, and is apparently not particularly willing to change its stance on the subject. Although the gun still functions (bullets have little difficulty leaving the barrel in the general direction of the targets, as directed), I am inclined to think that perhaps a functional safety device would be ideal, both for myself the general community. Currently, this 'Scourge of the Paper Target' lay in pieces, anxiously awaiting re-assembly so that it may continue it's reign in the highly competitive and ruthless world of weekend plinking.

Your attention to this matter is appreciated.

Sincerely,

Jonas Hart"
 

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look a little closer

jonas,

funny letter. i guess you need a sense of humor (and a small fortune to cover shipping and handling fees) if you plan to keep this pistol.

as far as the crack goes, look a little closer. if you have a magnifier, use it to check for hairline cracks. on mine, i could not see it clearly without a magnifier. if you look at vtran's pix closely, you'll see the crack on the shoulder on the upper part of the trigger guard that pops into the pistol's frame.

i bought this pistol thinking that it would be a inexpensive way to own a hammerli, since i did not want to fork up the $$$ for a 208 at the time. at this point, i don't know what would be cheaper, either keep on sending back this pistol for repairs or moving and buying a home in exeter,nh down the street from sigarms so i can walk my pistol in instead of shipping it.
 

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Hmm, I'll have to take a look at mine!

Its discouraging to hear all this. But again, if folks raise enough h**l about safety, I'll bet they'll listen. This is perhaps one of the few ways our overly-litigious society can actually help gun owners! Besides, SIG has a decent track record of customer service. Talk to them, explain the situation...they're not a GIANT company. Letting them know that you'll no longer purchase their goods, and are willing to spread the word about their faulty goods is a great way to get their attention.

cheers

jonas
 

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FYI - brought this issue to sigarm's attention

decided to call sig and bring it to their attention. from our conversation sig was not aware of this problem/issue. from our discussion, i found out that THE UPPER SHOULDER OF THE TRIGGER GUARD IS SUPPOSED TO LIMIT THE SLIDE'S REARWARD TRAVEL AND ABSORB MOST OF THE RECOIL. they informed me that this was borrowed from the 208 design. i discussed my idea about increasing the recoil spring guide but they did not agree with that work-around. after further discussion, the sig rep and i both started to suspect that this might be a materials hardness / heat treat issue once again. i also brought up the fact that on a s&w model 41, the same thing happens when the slide on that pistol blows back (slide impacts shoulder on the trigger guard). the only difference is that the model 41 is made out of heavy steel vs. an alloy. we then had a brief discussion on the definition of an alloy. the sig rep was insistant that the trailside was made of steel vs. an alloy (sure is light for a steel gun).

long story short- they were not aware of this issue but state that they will do their best to set things right. bad news is that they want me to ship them the pistol so they can investigate and run some test on the material used on the trigger guard. good news is that it looks like they'll cover shipping roundtrip after i brought up the fact that this will be the 3rd time my pistol has to be sent in.

i encourage all trailside owners to inspect your pistol's trigger guard for cracking and hairline fractures. i have a gut feeling that this is not a circumstancial "one in a thousand" incident. if you find cracking or fractures, call sig immediately and ask for an RMA (returned merchandise authorization) number so you can ship it back to them. they don't accept anything w/o an RMA number. also, ask customer service if they are willing to cover shipping roundtrip, especially if you've sent the pistol in before for other issues. if enough people do this, sigarms or hammerli will know that they had better work out all the bugs out of this "otherwise" nice-looking and accurate pistol or go broke in covering shipping fees.

last thing - on the idea that it might be ammo related, i don't think it is. why? i own several rimfire pistols that all get fed a variety of ammo (std., high, and hyper-velocity) and all of them have been fired more times that my trailside. yet, none of my other rimfire pistols have suffered from cracks or fractures. as mentioned earlier, the model 41 does the exact same thing, but you never hear of their trigger guards cracking. in fact, you'll find many 30+ year old model 41's still firing flawlessly as of today.

i'll keep you guys posted.

-rusty22
 

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Rusty:

Tho probably a bit more involved than you would have preferred, sounds like your efforts are paying off...for all of us. SIG/Hammerli build hi-end guns. I can't imagine they'd be ok if they found out their's aren't up-to-par. They know what people pay for their guns vs. what they could pay for a lesser item.

Thanks for the investigation and results. I'll certainly be taking a close look at my Trailside in the coming days.

Much appreciated,

cheers

jonas
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Jonas Hart said:
Sorry, but I don't see the cracks. I believe you, but I'm missing them. Can you repost the pix with indicators? I'd appeciate it!

As for the warranty, I'd ignore that and call SIG immediately. My safety broke after having it for more than a year. I spoke to some one at SIG, and they advised me to send the slide back, with a letter. Got it fixed pretty quicky. I think if you voice concern about SAFETY, they may be willing to fix their mistake. I've copied the letter I sent...please laugh :)

cheers

jonas

"August 31, 2005
SIGARMS, Inc.
18 Industrial Drive
Exeter, NH 03833

Dear SIG Folks:
I have enclosed the well-cleaned and cared-for slide from my SIG Trailside. While shooting a couple of weeks ago, the safety mechanism decided it would be happier as a non-working device. As you will notice, the safety is in the 'off' position, and is apparently not particularly willing to change its stance on the subject. Although the gun still functions (bullets have little difficulty leaving the barrel in the general direction of the targets, as directed), I am inclined to think that perhaps a functional safety device would be ideal, both for myself the general community. Currently, this 'Scourge of the Paper Target' lay in pieces, anxiously awaiting re-assembly so that it may continue it's reign in the highly competitive and ruthless world of weekend plinking.

Your attention to this matter is appreciated.

Sincerely,

Jonas Hart"
Let's try this:



 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
CraigJS said:
I don't own a Trailside but have a question for you that do and have this problem. Were you guys shooting high vel ammo mostly, a mix, or mostly std vel? Could this be ammo related?
CraigJS
In the Trailside manual, it says you can shoot standard or high velocity ammo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
rusty22 said:
decided to call sig and bring it to their attention. from our conversation sig was not aware of this problem/issue.

-rusty22
At the sigforum site, I've heard people complain about the same problem with their trigger guard.

Who did you speak with at Sig? I'd like to chat with him myself.
 

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Same problems for me except i have only put around 1000 through mine
the slide catch has never worked they keep sending me new mags and finally i sent mine back it still doesnt work the trigger gaurd is also cracked and that **** trigger bar spring always pops out
not what i expected from my so called ivestment
 

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Thank you all

I WAS giving thought to getting one of these. NOW I will just get more ammo for my 41. Thanks for honest info. That is what makes this site so great!
 

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the pistol has potential, but needs to be re-fined

like i said earlier, it's a hard "pill to swallow" when your $500+ pistol starts malfunctioning after only 1000 rounds through it, especially for those who've owned less expensive pistols that have performed just as well, or in this case, better than this swiss import.

sig has built a great reputaion throughout the years with their centerfire pistols (not rimfires) so i was a little skeptical about buying a .22 from them. after finding out that it was actually a hammerli, i felt alot better and parted with my cash.

this gun has potential, once all the kinks are out! i love how it looks and how it sits in my hand. i get plenty of complements at the range when others stop and look.

would i recommend someone to buy this pistol? at this point, i can't. i'm just glad that i have all my other faithful rimfire pistols that all "take a licking, but keep on ticking" to fill in the void while the trailside once again takes a trip to exeter,nh.

fyi, sig has assigned an RMA number to this case and has emailed me a pre-paid shipping label to cover shipping. i will be shipping it sometime early next week. i will do my best to keep you guys posted.

let's all hope that this will be the last "kink" that will need to be worked out. if not, we'll need to generate a completely new site called www.mytrailsidesucks.com in order to warn and educate other potential buyer's on what we all know.

-rusty22
 

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cracks in my trailside

I saw this post a while back and didn't think much of it. I only have 200 or so rounds through my 6in standard that I purchased in June. As I was taking out to shoot today I thought I would give it a looksy and sure enough the cracks are exactly where you all said they would be. Will sig refund the purchase price or will I be required to have it repaired under the warranty?
 

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i doubt you'll get a full refund, but you can try...

i don't think it would be in sig's best business interest to all of a sudden refund everyone's money for all the trailsides they've sold so far. if they did that, it would be an "admission" of a severely defective product, which the trailside is not (as mentioned before it's nice looking, good ergonomics, accurate, yada, yada, yada...). if the defect poses a safety hazard, they'll issue a recall and maybe do a retrofit (like ruger did with the single-six's tansfer bar system after they got sued) and maybe throw in one of those disposable plastic magazines to make you feel a little bit better. sig also has to crunch numbers to see if it's still more profitable to keep replacing parts at their cost vs. issueing a full refund. it might just come down to replacing the trigger guard with an updated one made out of a heavier / sturdier material (whether it be steel or alloy).

imagine how many people have bought a trailside and never suspected that it would easily crack. now, of all those guys, how many people do you think is good about inspecting their new pistols for cracks and fractures. how many of those guys do you think visit rfc to get the lowdown.

sig or hammerli better get the materials and the heat treat finally right before someone ends up with a trailside slide lodged in their eye socket.

-rusty22
 
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