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**** the SIG Mosquito is similar to the p22!

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Here is one for us to chew on:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94263

or more directly:

http://sigforum.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/293100862

I think the darn thing looks like 90% p22! SIG has a nice touch in sending out a target along with the pistol, probably from a mechanical rest, so you know what the gun is capable of.

:cool:
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Did you guys notice that it looks as if the entire barrel shroud screws on and off (my guess is that the threads will be way back near the breech), probably as a means of trying to deal with the California situation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
****, you have a sharp eye, Gonzo!

Notable deletion from my perspective (if they either copied, followed or hopefully learned from the p22 design) is the mag release not being on the trigger guard.

Also, there is what looks like a windage screw (a la p22) on the right side of the rear sight; but it probably isn't as there is no sign of movement or the other end on the left side.
 

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Gentlemen,

I don't own a P22, yet, so I may be missing something. It is frequently stated that the Mosquito is so much like the P22. I don't see that. I think the Mosquito looks more like a Colt 1911 than it does a P22. ...and, the Mosquito is said (in the above-referenced article) to be of the "blow-back design", not recoil-operated, like the P22.

Unless I have to handle the Mosquito to feel the magic, I can't envision myself owning one. P22, yes. :t Sig Mosquito, no. :1t

Please enlighten me. :confused:

BigLoop22
 

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BigLoop22 said:
Gentlemen,

I don't own a P22, yet, so I may be missing something. It is frequently stated that the Mosquito is so much like the P22. I don't see that. I think the Mosquito looks more like a Colt 1911 than it does a P22. ...and, the Mosquito is said (in the above-referenced article) to be of the "blow-back design", not recoil-operated, like the P22.

Unless I have to handle the Mosquito to feel the magic, I can't envision myself owning one. P22, yes. :t Sig Mosquito, no. :1t

Please enlighten me. :confused:

BigLoop22
We're not talking about outward cosmetic appearance. In cars, I believe the Volvo S40 and Mazda 3 share the same chassis. The exterior styling is different enough that you wouldn't suspect it. As for the two guns, the interior design and workings of the gun look pretty similar.
 

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Mosquito Owners' Manual Here: http://www.sigarms.com/documentation/Mosquito_manual_USA.pdf

Observations:

1. Not as similar to the P22 as we thought.

2. Barrel looks to be an assembly that comes away from the two side plates differently. Based on the diagram, I'd wager that the barrel shroud comes from the factory "epoxied" to the inner tube. Looks **** tough to add a can to this configuration.

3. Uses a REAL hammer spring set up with a vertically acting hammer strut and spring. (Much better, as the angles on these REDUCE force as the hammer is all the way cocked).

4. Mag looks VERY easy to mod to 13 to 15 rounds (just need to dremel out the little cutout on the side deeper. Strong type spring, too. A slightly extended floorplate (ala the Wilson mags on a 1911) and you can probably easily get to 16 rounds.

5. Internal mechanism looks a LOT more complicated than the P22, and it appears to be a real bear to detail strip. Lots (LOTS!) more parts than a P22.

6. SHIPS(!!!) with two recoil springs, one for standard velocity, one for high velocity. (My P22 shoots both all day without complaint or protest, so I think that's better!).

7. "Integral lock" looks to deal with the mainspring and hammer strut.

8. Much different magazine safety situation, may not be as easily removed as a P22's

9. Its got a paddle sear, which in theory means a pretty good S.A. trigger.
 

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GonzoP22-1 said:
4. Mag looks VERY easy to mod to 13 to 15 rounds (just need to dremel out the little cutout on the side deeper. Strong type spring, too. A slightly extended floorplate (ala the Wilson mags on a 1911) and you can probably easily get to 16 rounds.
Looking at the exploded diagram, 13 rounds might be a bit optimistic with the stock floorplate. It doesn't seem to have much more 'follower' size than my MKII, but I could very well be incorrect (I actually hope I am)
 

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kasudyo,

I understand your analogy.

Slide, barrel, hammer, some springs, magazine, trigger, frame, etc., are what make any semi-automatic handgun.

I'm sorry, I still don't see any specific similarities.

*******************************************

Gentlemen,

Does anyone have a definitive answer to this question?:

Does the Mosquito have a blow-back action?

BigLoop22

p.s.

Perhaps, I am muddling the terms "blow-back" & "recoil-operated". To me, they are different things. ...unless, I am confusing "blow-back" & "gas-operated". :confused:
 

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Gonzo, your #3 point is interesting as I notice two things on two of my 1911s. The tip of the hammer is machined flat and the hammer pressure reduces as the hammer approaches the cocked position. Something that would benefit the P-22 regarding slide wear and drag on the slide as it moves over the hammer. 1911M
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
GonzoP22-1 said:
4. Mag looks VERY easy to mod to 13 to 15 rounds (just need to dremel out the little cutout on the side deeper. Strong type spring, too. A slightly extended floorplate (ala the Wilson mags on a 1911) and you can probably easily get to 16 rounds.

9. Its got a paddle sear, which in theory means a pretty good S.A. trigger.
I couldn't find a good mag pic to tell much about capacity, maybe it's my crappy resolution. Key observation I'd like to know is do these mags have the "slot" from the later generation p22 mags?

For pistols like p22, the addition of another recoil spring is notable, I missed that. I would differ with you on which is "better", although I'd go one step further. If these pistols are going to run cans as often as p22s, I'd go with two recoil springs - one for subsonic - std. velocity and one for std. velocity to high velocity. The reason being the two types of owners - those that run cans and those that don't. Still, it doesn't look as "can" freindly as the p22, if that is the case, the second spring is probably not needed.

As for the sear design, I can't wait to see how the SIG trigger feels. I can tinker, but I don't consider myself a gunsmith. I pretty much would love an aftermarket trigger for my Walther. If this one feels that much better, I may make an addition to the family.

Thanks to reading these forums, I made a good choice with the p22 and knew what to look for an expect. I have a fun .22 pistol, and I think my next $$$ would go for a real P226! CDNN has a ton of police used VG-excellent in the mid-$300s....
 

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1917-1911M said:
Gonzo, your #3 point is interesting as I notice two things on two of my 1911s. The tip of the hammer is machined flat and the hammer pressure reduces as the hammer approaches the cocked position. Something that would benefit the P-22 regarding slide wear and drag on the slide as it moves over the hammer. 1911M
Yup. The hammer strut, because of the tortional angle where it attaches behind the axis of pivot has a force multiplying effect as the strut gets to the "full cock" position. That is, the angles are such that the hammer increases its advantage vis a viz the hammer spring the further back it is cocked. This makes for better triggers, but allows a stronger spring to ensure reliable firing. The spring's power with respect to the hammer increases during the "fall" so that the hammer is seriously accellerating during the "locktime." I'm a BIG fan of that approach, which you'll find in the Mark II as well, and now in the Sig. The spring set up like on the P22 is less frequently seen.

Did you notice how SHORT and small the rails are on the Mosquito?

Look at this:

 

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BigLoop22 said:
kasudyo,

I understand your analogy.

Slide, barrel, hammer, some springs, magazine, trigger, frame, etc., are what make any semi-automatic handgun.

I'm sorry, I still don't see any specific similarities.

*******************************************

Gentlemen,

Does anyone have a definitive answer to this question?:

Does the Mosquito have a blow-back action?

BigLoop22

p.s.

Perhaps, I am muddling the terms "blow-back" & "recoil-operated". To me, they are different things. ...unless, I am confusing "blow-back" & "gas-operated". :confused:
Aren't ALL 22lr semi's blow back operated? Rifle and pistol? I can't think of any that are not. I think you have your terms mixed up.
 

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Part of the problem is that "recoil operated" and "blowback" are not actually the same thing.

"blowback" -- while not a technical term -- is more accurate in terms of describing an unlocked breach system where pressure of the cartrige casing under firing conditions opens the unlocked breach (held closed only by the intertial weight of the bolt/slide and the recoil spring.

"Recoil Operated" can also refer to locked breach guns. Consider the Franchi shotguns where the bolt is LOCKED to the barrel and the entire barrel and bolt assembly recoils back together, only unlocking at the rear of travel, whereupon the bolt is held, the barrel springs forward, then the bolt moves forward for the next round. (Also known as the "long recoil" principle).

1911 handguns are also recoil operated, strictly speaking, albiet under a "short recoil" system where the barrel and slide recoil back just slightly while locked together, then the link pulls the barrel out of the locking recesses and the slide keeps going.

.22 rimfire semi-autos are "blowback."
 

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GonzoP22-1 said:
Yup. The hammer strut, because of the tortional angle where it attaches behind the axis of pivot has a force multiplying effect as the strut gets to the "full cock" position. That is, the angles are such that the hammer increases its advantage vis a viz the hammer spring the further back it is cocked. This makes for better triggers, but allows a stronger spring to ensure reliable firing. The spring's power with respect to the hammer increases during the "fall" so that the hammer is seriously accellerating during the "locktime." I'm a BIG fan of that approach, which you'll find in the Mark II as well, and now in the Sig. The spring set up like on the P22 is less frequently seen.

Did you notice how SHORT and small the rails are on the Mosquito?

Look at this:

the p99 has short rails too. kinda made me think it was a problem. But it is alot stronger steel than the p22. No problems w/ mine.
 

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Well I definitely noticed those short rails, at least the one on the left side. Haven't seen a picture of the right side. Also noticed the tip of the hammer has been flattened. I'll be waiting to see what this pistol looks like in real life but I definitely have concerns about the lack of rail bearing surface. Are the Sig rails steel? I don't believe the P-22's are. same zinc.

I better order more moly/teflon. Wonder where you get it. 1911M

I agree this slide, frame configuration is similar to the P-22. Wonder what the underside of the breech looks like.
 
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