[Maine Guy]

I bought another 30 acres right down the road from where we live last summer. It's in land use, so taxes are nothing.
A beautiful piece of land with a small trout stream. My dream to have.
I month after I buy it, the old fart next door that has a 17 acre contiguous tract next to mine, calls to let me know he's clear cutting the 17 acres. Initially I'm like WXF??

I express my serious concerns since most properties up here in Maine only have a meets and bounds deed.

The big oak tree over by the small pile of rocks, down the hill to the creek bank...that kind. Absolutely worthless.
This is the type of deed shared by both properties.

I send him a certified letter with my concerns, he won't accept it.
He calls and says he's having his daughter and son in law using a phone app to delineate the property lines. I still have serious doubts

SO now the battle begins. Timber trucks going by at 6am pulling the jake brake acting like a retard. Of course my Presa's react on a hair trigger, and go ape sxxx!

Temperatures rising and the possibility for a real conflict is rising also.

FYI, timber up here is BIG business. Someone cuts a bunch of your standing timber, and you're talking thousands, probably tens of thousands of dollars of pinched timber.

My lot is entirely forested with mature and soft and hardwood.
Had to call Maine Forestry Service, have a ranger come out, inspect the job-site and open a complaint.

Meantime I'm paying a surveyor $6K to survey the entire property perimeter. Had to be done eventually anyway.
The sooner you get on and record illegally cut timber stumpage for evidence the better for evidence.

The story continues....
Will update.


Maine Guy

 

[mobenzowner]

So you are saying he cant cut his own timber on his 17 acres? I lost something in the translation I guess.

 

[Rocinante]

Would he sell to you? Maybe after a limited harvest of his timber?

 

[scooter22]

What a PITA. I wouldn't rely on their phone app. The surveyor is legal and binding. I don't know your neighbor but maybe he has money problems and is cashing in his timber. Good luck.

 

[WileyG]

So you are saying he cant cut his own timber on his 17 acres? I lost something in the translation I guess.

I've had a similar experience as the OP and unless the actual property line is very visibly marked along the actual LEGAL boundary it's fairly easy for a few deviations to happen and cut the other guy's timber, even if it's just a few trees. Using an app on a phone to mark the actual property line should NEVER be acceptable as the LEGAL boundary. The OP is simply protecting what's his and the other guy is getting out on the cheap.

 

[bsawers]

So you are saying he cant cut his own timber on his 17 acres? I lost something in the translation I guess.

Metes and bounds are notoriously unreliable since the original features may be long gone. If the legal description of the parcel relies on an oak tree, now gone, how do you know where the property line is? The line might run for 137 feet in a specified direction, but from where?

If the description is ambiguous, it's hard to know the actual area and the actual boundaries. On a larger property, the difference can be significant, often 10 percent of the area, sometimes 20 percent.

We rented a house in Maryland (also metes and bounds) where the misclosure was 11 feet even though the property was almost perfect rectangle of 3000 square feet. The surveyor walked 200 or 300 feet from their starting point and ended up 11 feet shy on almost level ground.

The OP is worried that his neighbor is going to cut his trees, not the neighbors.

 

[dawkind]

There are many things a person can pick….neighbors and relatives are not among them, extremely sorry to say.

Good luck…

 

[Maine Guy]

So you are saying he cant cut his own timber on his 17 acres? I lost something in the translation I guess.

That not what I said. Re-read.
Cutting timber from ANY property when property lines are not CLEARLY DELINEATED BETWEEN 2 PROPERTIES , is an invitation to conflict.
Pretty simple to understand when you own property with timber value.

 

[Maine Guy]

Metes and bounds are notoriously unreliable since the original features may be long gone. If the legal description of the parcel relies on an oak tree, now gone, how do you know where the property line is? The line might run for 137 feet in a specified direction, but from where?

If the description is ambiguous, it's hard to know the actual area and the actual boundaries. On a larger property, the difference can be significant, often 10 percent of the area, sometimes 20 percent.

We rented a house in Maryland (also metes and bounds) where the misclosure was 11 feet even though the property was almost perfect rectangle of 3000 square feet. The surveyor walked 200 or 300 feet from their starting point and ended up 11 feet shy on almost level ground.

The OP is worried that his neighbor is going to cut his trees, not the neighbors.

We have the best surveying company in this part of Maine, doing a full perimeter survey , which will be completed next week. This is the only way this problem can be settled. In Virginia you can't even sell property without a professional survey, which would have eliminated this type of problem here in Maine.

Property is worth more with a professional survey anyway, although that $6K could have bought a real nice rifle!

 

[Maine Guy]

Would he sell to you? Maybe after a limited harvest of his timber?

He might after this is said and done. Up here many people don't plan their lives. At least in regards to their financial stability. Many live day to day on the state dime, smoke weed all day and let the state take care of them.
Not to say there are not any hard working folk, there are. But the legalized pot situation has had a real negative affect on crime and peoples willingness to work. Why work , when you get free $$$?
Not for me thank you.
I worked very hard and planned my retirement life. Well, as best as I could anyway.

As a side bar, This guy is 80+, a Viet Nam era draft dodger, who came up here to hide from the draft board, which just pixxes me off to no end. Plus he hates guns!!!!

He's run out of cash to live, so he's selling off his measly 17 acres of timber. Kinda' like inner city dwellers on drugs going to sell blood at the blood bank in my opinion. But it's his land to do as he wishes, as long as my land is not molested, I don't care.
Personally we'll never clear cut our property. It's really a beautiful piece of property. We have deer, grouse, moose, bobcat, eagles, and fisher all over the property, and small trout stream to fish for natives. Been a dream of mine forever.
Even have the dreaded porcupine.

Occasional arboreal maintenance, like clearing deadfall, and clearing out stinkin' popple, but no major clearing.

But hey, that's just me. To each his own.

Maine Guy

 

[scooter22]

We have the best surveying company in this part of Maine, doing a full perimeter survey , which will be completed next week. This is the only way this problem can be settled. In Virginia you can't even sell property without a professional survey, which would have eliminated this type of problem here in Maine.

Property is worth more with a professional survey anyway, although that $6K could have bought a real nice rifle!

So cash in on some trees to cover. Sounds like you have more than you'll ever use.

 

[WileyG]

Down here a timber company wouldn't even start a chainsaw for 17 acres of trees unless they were VERY good timber of a species that's hard to find. It just don't happen down here.

 

[aztarget]

I thought clear cutting was illegal?

 

[scooter22]

Ahhhhh. The rest of the story. Yeah he sound like a real piece. Good luck.

 

[dlong]

I bought another 30 acres right down the road from where we live last summer. It's in land use, so taxes are nothing.
A beautiful piece of land with a small trout stream. My dream to have.
I month after I buy it, the old fart next door that has a 17 acre contiguous tract next to mine, calls to let me know he's clear cutting the 17 acres. Initially I'm like WXF??

I express my serious concerns since most properties up here in Maine only have a meets and bounds deed.

The big oak tree over by the small pile of rocks, down the hill to the creek bank...that kind. Absolutely worthless.
This is the type of deed shared by both properties.

I send him a certified letter with my concerns, he won't accept it.
He calls and says he's having his daughter and son in law using a phone app to delineate the property lines. I still have serious doubts

SO now the battle begins. Timber trucks going by at 6am pulling the jake brake acting like a retard. Of course my Presa's react on a hair trigger, and go ape sxxx!

Temperatures rising and the possibility for a real conflict is rising also.

FYI, timber up here is BIG business. Someone cuts a bunch of your standing timber, and you're talking thousands, probably tens of thousands of dollars of pinched timber.

My lot is entirely forested with mature and soft and hardwood.
Had to call Maine Forestry Service, have a ranger come out, inspect the job-site and open a complaint.

Meantime I'm paying a surveyor $6K to survey the entire property perimeter. Had to be done eventually anyway.
The sooner you get on and record illegally cut timber stumpage for evidence the better for evidence.

The story continues....
Will update.


Maine Guy

I guess there’s no escaping a holes. Is that even allowed? Totally clear cutting 17 acres?

 

[M2HB]

I bought another 30 acres right down the road from where we live last summer. It's in land use, so taxes are nothing.
A beautiful piece of land with a small trout stream. My dream to have.
I month after I buy it, the old fart next door that has a 17 acre contiguous tract next to mine, calls to let me know he's clear cutting the 17 acres. Initially I'm like WXF??

I express my serious concerns since most properties up here in Maine only have a meets and bounds deed.

The big oak tree over by the small pile of rocks, down the hill to the creek bank...that kind. Absolutely worthless.
This is the type of deed shared by both properties.

I send him a certified letter with my concerns, he won't accept it.
He calls and says he's having his daughter and son in law using a phone app to delineate the property lines. I still have serious doubts

SO now the battle begins. Timber trucks going by at 6am pulling the jake brake acting like a retard. Of course my Presa's react on a hair trigger, and go ape sxxx!

Temperatures rising and the possibility for a real conflict is rising also.

FYI, timber up here is BIG business. Someone cuts a bunch of your standing timber, and you're talking thousands, probably tens of thousands of dollars of pinched timber.

My lot is entirely forested with mature and soft and hardwood.
Had to call Maine Forestry Service, have a ranger come out, inspect the job-site and open a complaint.

Meantime I'm paying a surveyor $6K to survey the entire property perimeter. Had to be done eventually anyway.
The sooner you get on and record illegally cut timber stumpage for evidence the better for evidence.

The story continues....
Will update.


Maine Guy

I feel for you.

Some neighbors can be a real pain.

I have about 110 acres of forested land surrounded by Forest Service property except for a small border on one side, and a neighbor that has two acres that abuts just one corner on the opposite end of my property. My public access crosses this one neighbor’s two acre parcel. This access is a legal public road. This neighbor never did like me because he bought his two acres shortly before I bought my large parcel about 30 years ago. He wanted my acreage, but couldn’t afford it. This guy complained the first time I select cut timber, even though I replanted about 2000 saplings, and kept the largest trees. He harasses me and other neighbors to the point he has been arrested for harassing a good friend of mine, who is the local fire chief, while he was responding to an accident scene. All my neighbors, even though none are real close, are wonderful except for this nut job.
I’m lucky since the Forest Service surveyed and marked all of the perimeter they had near my property.

A survey will clear up any legal issues. It is money well spent. As stated above, most loggers won’t mess with small parcels. Also, the distance to a local mill will also affect the lumber value.

Good luck with your situation.

 

[JW22]

Good fences make good neighbors. trespassing is trespassing don't know about Maine but, where I live the Sheriff would get a call and Peskey neighbor would be escorted off my land with a very stern warning.

 

[Dented]

That surveyor will be with every penny you pay him. It's tough to cut the check, but the piece of mind will be well worth it.

 

[OldCZFan]

A survey will clear up any legal issues. It is money well spent. As stated above, most loggers won’t mess with small parcels

M2HB is correct. You don't know what you actually have until a survey is completed. Also, timber companies generally won't bid on small tracts because it is so expensive to move equipment to the job site. It's like moving a circus. It has been my experience that they prefer to move from job site to job site rather than transporting equipment back to the yard and then to the next job site.

In 2016 I bought a tract which had been clear cut some years prior and the owner never replanted but left it to grow wild. I paid to have a survey done and the property boundaries plainly marked, paid to have a heavy equipment operator cut a fire break around the entire property, paid to have almost the entire property sprayed with herbicide by a helicopter, paid to have a controlled burn conducted and paid to have somewhere between 31,00 or 32,00 pine seedlings planted. The planting was in February of 2018. Expensive but the results made the effort and expense worthwhile. The timber is growing amazingly fast and the food plots are productive each year. It's an investment.

Where I am going with this is pine is a crop to be managed and harvested. If I had a tract with hardwood trees such as oak and hickory, I wouldn't cut it but pine is different. That is why, in my opinion, clear cutting is common in South Carolina. The crop is being harvested.

I bought another tract in late 2022 and I just paid a survey company to return to the tract and clearly mark the property boundaries in preparation for a thinning. Not a clear cut but a thinning. I wouldn't sign a contract with a timber broker if the property was not properly surveyed and marked, since in South Carolina, the owner of the illegally timbered wood can get three times damages. Or he can sue you.

What frosts me are land owners that have timber cut and don't retain some of the earnings to properly replant.

My experience in timber tracts is limited to South Carolina and I don't have an idea what goes on in other states.

Maine Guy - Good luck. You are wise to have a quality survey completed.

 

[fourbore]

I guess there’s no escaping a holes. Is that even allowed? Totally clear cutting 17 acres?

A clear cut actually promotes more wildlife than 100% deep forest. You dont have to plant anything! Once cut, it can be allowed to regrow. Or used for hay. Or wait for it ,,,, drum roll- build a house. The last one, really hurts. With a planet with 7 bilion people and growing exponentially, what can we expect? Oh, wait, I just checked 8 billion.