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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a Speedmaster 241 that shoots 22LR. It was my grandfathers. It's a nice little rifle, but it jams a lot. I doubt I can shoot more than three bullets without it jamming. Bullets are fed into the stock but they cannot make the final curve into the chamber. They miss the hole and get hung up.

I have cleaned it several times and oiled it, but I still cannot get the bullets to make the final transition into the hole. That guide had a lot of carbon buildup as it is difficult to clean the concave curve, but I have cleand that up.

The barrel reads 22-Long Rifle-Smokeless-Greased

I have tried a couple of different brands of bullets. Currently I have Remingtons 22LR.

The serial numbers on the barrel and reciever match, so the barrel isn't made for 22-LR with a mismatched reciever for 22-Shorts.

BTW, I have heard the jokes about semi-auto are really auto-jam, but I really wish I could get this thing to fire repeatedly. It's a nice little rifle and in great condition.

Can anyone help me?
 

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Hmmm.........Is the long spring on the end of the inner magazine tube in good shape, or is it bent? Also is there spring pressure against the spring when you push it back into the brass tube? If these check out ok and it's not the follower, you may have to pull the outer magazine tube out and check it for burrs etc, and clean it well.

There are other things that may be causing your rifle to jam, such as a weak breech block spring or firing pin spring. Ensure that it has been cleaned well and try using some High velocity ammo.
 

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Welcome to RFC!.Try cleaning the inner magazine tube,I use a solvent soaked patch in a slotted tip on a rod from the forward end of the tube.Just push the follower back with the rod.If you think the problem is ammuniton related,I suggest trying a box of Federal load #750.These are 36 grain hollow points available from walmart at ten dollars for 550 rounds,they function flawlessly in my 241.Some mechanical fault involving the cartridge guide or its spring seems likley if the cleaning and ammo change dosen't help.The folks here at RFC have provided me with information and advice that helped solve my rimfire problems.You can expect the same.Good Luck
 

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Yes, what boley said, and I forgot. It is always my standard practice when getting a new/old tube fed auto loader to cut a patch larger than normal, soaking it in #9 solvent and cleaning the inside of the inner mag tube, you won't believe the crud that comes out of there, usually takes several patches to do it. boley and I may be the only two that go to this extreme? :p It's not always easy to get that followler back in the tube, but the results are worth it. You can drift out the handle pin and remove the follower spring, but sometimes this opens up a can of worms, found that out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for your advice! While I can find plenty of information on my Remington 700, there isn't much published on the internet about this old .22. Nothing beats talking to people who know and used the rifle!

I never thought of resistance in the stock. It makes sense, any resistance will reduce the pressure on the bullets in the magazine. The flexshaft at the end of the inner magazine tube, or follower is fine and the spring inside the tube feels good, nice fluid tension.

I think the problem might be in the outer tube or at the start of the reciever. When I shove a cleaning patch into the outer magazine tube through the end of the stock I do feel something. It is well after the hole in the side of the stock that I feel the resistance. Measuring the bockage and comparing it on the outside of the stock, the there is resistance just before the reciever. After pushing through the resistance there is a free spot and more resistance just inside the reciever. This brings me to my next two question.

How do you remove the stock from the reciever?
How do you remove the outer magazine tube from the stock?
I see the outer tube has two slots. Does this unscrew the outer tube from the stock?
There is one large screw on the right side of the reciever. Does this connect the stock to the reciever? I'm guessing no.

Broke the cleaning tip off. I guess I used too big of a patch. Bummer. Looks like I'll know more about this rifle than I planned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Oh how sweet it is! At 1:00 am I figured out how to remove the breech block. There is my patch and tip, and there is a lot of carbon build up across the top of the reciever. Shine a light through the stock and the outermagazine tube looks clean. Breech block probably never have been removed. It is nasty!

I never would have guessedit can pop out so easily. Hopefully It goes back in just as easily.

Browning has an excellent owners manual for the 22 semi-auto.

http://www.browning.com/products/manuals/index.asp

There are a couple of other diagrams I found to be informative by searching through past rimfirecentral postings for 241.

http://www.okiegunsmithshop.com/brngauto.jpg

http://www.okiegunsmithshop.com/Remington_M24.jpg
 

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Captplaid said:
Oh how sweet it is! At 1:00 am I figured out how to remove the breech block. There is my patch and tip, and there is a lot of carbon build up across the top of the reciever. Shine a light through the stock and the outermagazine tube looks clean. Breech block probably never have been removed. It is nasty!

I never would have guessedit can pop out so easily. Hopefully It goes back in just as easily.

Good luck, I had a time putting mine back in, that breech block spring is STRONG, and you really have to get a hand or two or three on it. Add to that the firing pin spring and plunger and you have a job. Let us know if you find an easy way to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Augh! Everything is cleaner than its been in decades, and the bullets still jam as it goes into the end of the barrel. I'll try to get a picture of the condition. A picture is worth a thousand words.

This moves my onto two other questions.

Can the cartidge guide inside the recieve that aims the bullet into the barrel be moved and adjusted to center the bullet better? I see there is a spring loaded set screw on the side of this peice. If I move this guide forwards or backwards could I center the bullet better?

Or, can the threads on the berrel be moved in and out for better positioning?
 

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Just a thought.... look at the top of the bolt. You'll see a machined groove running right down the center. In that groove should be the cartridge carrier. the tail of the carrier shoud extend into the squared-off recess at the back of the bolt. Press on the tail and see if it pivots. If not, just lift it out and clean it. The carrier just sits in the groove and can easily fall out and get lost. No carrier = jams. Next, look in the receiver from the bottom, barrel end forward. On the 'top' of the receiver, left-hand side, halfway back, you should see the cartridge stop. If it's not there you'll just see two round holes. This part is easily lost also, with the same results. Next, look at the shell guide. There should be a little spring-loaded plunger sticking out just a bit. The spring and plunger are retained by the screw towards the upper 'take down' button side of the receiver. make sure that the plunger is free...just push it in a little...it should spring back.

If you contact Remington, they can send you a copy of the of the original owner's manual that has the instructions for adjusting the barrel lock-up.

I hope this helps..... Good luck,

Stan
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Had a busy week and was anxious to try Stan B's advice. Thank's for the advice, it gave me a lot more to think about!

First that spring, pin, and set screw on the side of the reciever is present, but I can't figure out what it's purpose is. The best guess is it holds the shell guide in place.

Now to the cartridge carrier. Yes it's there and it had a lot of carbon in it. I had wondered earlier what was holding it in, but I did not want to pry on it with a screwdriver. I was afraid I would miss seeing some kind of keeper and bend the cartridge carrier, so I just applied oil and manually moved it a little. In any case, I pryed it out and cleaned the grove and carrier. Apparently, the carrier has a slight bow to it that applies pressure on the side of the groves so it doesn't fall out.

I know understand the purpose of the cartridge carrier. As the breach moves back, the cartridge carrier pivots up and catches the tip of the rim an the round and the next round moves forward with the breach. The cartridge stop on the top of the recieve prevents the next round from following the first one through the reciever.

Unfortunately, cleaning the cartridge carrier did not help. The only difference I find after all this cleaning is the bullets are moving into the barrel with a little more force. When the rifle jams now, the lead is either gouging enough that the bullet won't fit into the barrel or the bullet is actually bending and wont fit into the barrel.

THis tells me that the cleaning has allowed the breach to move much more freely. This results in more force and quicker action in the breach with less resistance. The greater force bends the round when it jams.

Also, I have tried different brands of buttlets. I bought a box of Federal 36 grain bulles from Wal-Mart. The Fererals have a slightly larger rim than the Remingtons. When I manually pull the breach back to load the first bullet, the tip of the round points up at a 45-60 degree angle. My guess is the bullet's rim drags on the tip of the cartridge carrier (that small long piece of metal on the top of the breach) as the breach travels past the round.

I also bought a small box of Peters 40 grains. I think Remington makes them. They also jam easier. I should have bought a small box of 31 grain bullets. An old box of Winchester 36 grain shoots about the same as the Remingtons.

After all this, the Remingtons shoot about 3-4 rounds before jamming now. This is an improvement. The tip of the bullet hits the bottom edge of the barrel's hole. (When you turn the rifle upside down, it looks like the top edge.) The lead of the bullet ussually gets a grove cut in it from the impact.

Thanks for all your help, everyone! At the least, I hope y'all find this to be somewhat interesting reading. Personally, I find the posting on the internet to be more interesting than gun, sports, or truck magazines. Those can be the most shallow writings out there. I don't give a damm about the dimensions and weight of a brand new gun. I don't care about new add-on accessories. Any moron can buy a new piece of equipment and install it. I want tips on troubleshooting and problem solving, and you just don't find that shuff by the magazine guys.

Oops! On second thought, maybe Stan B. is an expert writer for Field and Stream. If any of you guys are, I apologize. LOL, I better get off my soap box now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
OK, I'll get on another soap box. I wait all week to find time to shot this again and look forward to this afternoon. My family owns the farm behind my house so I ussually just step out the back door and test fire into the dirt and corn. Only today the damm skydivers at the airport to the south are jumping, and the damm airplane flys across the field as it is coming in for a landing.

Freaking skydivers! They screw everything up! Don't really want to go shooting with people dropping out of the sky.
 

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Your last description of the feeding problem still points to the cartridge guide in my opinion.I suggest removing the screw on the left side of the receiver that holds the spring and plunger.See that these parts are present and move freely,and the tip of the plunger extends thru the side of the cartridge guide.This spring loaded plunger helps hold the cartridge in verticle position to feed correctly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
OK. So the tip of the plunger is supposed to extend into the cartridge guide? Its suppose to hold pressure on the bullet and keep it from falling out of the guide?

I checked it out again. The plunger does now barely extend into the guide. I don't know if it was before, but it is now. I took the reciever out and run a round through the stock and into the reciever. The plunger stops the cartridge just behind the lead and provides resistance through the curve. I'll give it another test fire tomorrow.

The plunger does extend into the guide barely. It goes into the hole in the side of the guide, but protrude into the grove slightly. The plunger has a short "half" and a longer "half". The longer half, about 3/8", goes into the center of the spring and to the set screw. The short half, about 1/8", goes into the guide. The set screw is slightly snug but it is not screwed tight. I guess there is room for adjustment there, so I'll play with the tension a little.

If this plunger is not applying pressure, it would explain why the tip wants to drop low and miss the barrel. It would also explain why the 40 grain also doesn't shot well. It is a heavier bullet.

Thanks for the tip! It is begining to sound logical.
 

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Without going back and reading all the posts, I don't recall if you've tried standard velocity cartridges. Back when these rifles were made, I'm not sure the .22s were HV like most are now. Having said that, my 24 functions just fine with HV cartridges. I had one FTF in the first 10 rounds, the first time the rifle was shot for about 25- 30 years, and that was all the malfunctions it's had. This was with HV Federal Classics. A gunsmith friend had completely cleaned and adjusted the rifle for the guy selling it and recommended it to me. I have been planning to try more varieties of ammo but haven't gotten to it yet..... to many toys to play with, I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Success!!!

10/10 with the Remington rounds followed by
10/10 with the Federals!

Adjusting the plunger was the final solution to keep the cartridge in the guide. I can finally say the Remington Speedmaster 241 is one of the finest .22 lr ever made. John Browning had a very fine design. Being left handed, I especially appreciate the bottom discharge. It is a semi-automatic that can be shot lefat handed or right.

I saw the Browning .22 SA version at Gander Mtn. last week. I couldn't believe how small the reciever is compared to the Remington. I also couldn't believe I was able to disassemble and reassemble the Remington's reciever down to the firering pin by following the Browning directions. Using a different brand's owners manual also was probably not the safest thing I've done. Too bad Remington does not publish more of their owners manuals on the internet.

Thanks everyone for their help and support while troubleshooting!
 

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Took my 24 to the range today so I could check out some different ammo.
Shot 1 magazine full of 11 HV Remingtons from a new box, 11 CCI Green Tag and 13 Wolf MT (all I had left in a box). Had 1 FTF in the CCIs, but in checking the CCIs, several bullets were really loose in the case. The bullet was bent over so far that it almost popped out of the case, so I believe it was a faulty cartridge and no fault of the rifle. CCIs are definately not my favorite brand of target cartridge anyway. No FTFs or FTEs at all with the others. Wolf grouped the best as expected.... wind was real bad, probably gusting to 25 or 30 mph and at 25 yds. the 10 shot Wolf group (shot the first 3 at another target because I didn't clean the barrel between brands) was approx. 1.25" vertical and 2" horizonal. Just using a front rest and no rear bag with the Model 24.
I had my 513S with me, to dial in a re-mounted scope, and groups strung somewhat horizonal with it also.... about 3/8" vert. and 3/4" horizonal at 50 yds. for several 5 shot groups with Wolf and somewhat larger with CCI. Using front rest and rear bag so the barrel was a lot more stable.
 

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Captplaid, Thanks for the very interesting post! I need to get a handy schematic of the rifle to fully appreciate all the steps you went through to properly diagnose your rifles problem.
I purchased a Model 241, serial # 10241 about 2 years ago at a show for a good price but it was plagued by a couple problems. The screw on the right side of the receiver was loose and fell out PLUS the rifle had a nasty tendency to unlock allowing the barrel to turn during shooting sessions. Just today I picked it up at the gunsmith and it now feels nice and tight! I can't wait to put some rounds down range! I'm 6'2" and this rifle fits my frame very well. Also being a lefty, the downward exit of the brass is appreciated. Kim
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I hate to admit it, but the first time I to took the 241 out to enjoy it, I lost a vital part. After all the trouble shooting, it's embarassing I could do something so foolish as to let the screw hang there, barely screwed into the reciever. For the gun to not jam, the screw was hardly screwed into the receiver. The set screw that holds the spring and plunger against the cartidge guide fell out the first time I used the rifle.

****!

I should have applied a coating Remington's "Seal of the Gods", to the screw. (finger nail polish)

I had a hard time finding the screw on the internet. Not sure what to call it, but I queried for words like "Remington 241 cartridge guide plunger screw" with no luck. In the meantime, I found a good temporary solution. A nylon 10X32 screw would fit or a small nylon air line threaded to a 10X32 would work. The plastic would cut to fit the Remington threads without stripping the reciever's threads. Thought about making a brass set screw

Remington apparrently used a *******ized thread, something like a 9.6X36 or maybe a 40 thread. So I couldn't used an actual 10X32 set screw and make a new one.

Last week I found a bunch of miscellaneous parts on Ebay. It had two plungers, springs, and screws.

Yah!

I got the parts in the mail today. I was surprised the new screws are different from what I remember the old one to be. I thought the old screw was like a set screw that was screwed in backwards. While the center of the screw was not hex shaped, like a set screw, there was a recessed round center that the spring fit into. The top of the screw had a small center hole and a slot, just like the new screw.

Anyway, the bag of random screws, springs, and pins also included 3 triggers. One trigger was new, and two were used. It surprises me that all three triggers are for 24's or 241's, but each trigger is different. The triggers are the same size and pivot hole is in the same spot. I don't think any of them are from a Browning SA, but each trigger is slightly different.

Would a short use a different trigger than a long rifle?
I wouldn't think so, but what is up with three different triggers for one rifle?
 

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I would think the tube is out of alignment with the chamber. I had a mod 24 that would jam a lot then noticed the ejector was loose. I restaked it and problem went away. All sorts of things could make this happen but ck these first. The old mossbergs were made this way too,so were High Standard pistol(the way they had to jump into chamber) so this is a matter of finessing so long as all the parts are there.PW
 
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