Skinner 39 Peep For CLA Silhouette?

2891 Views 15 Replies 10 Participants Last post by vepr762, Oct 23, 2017

Shooterjohn125

Discussion Starter · Oct 21, 2017

Forgive my total lack of silhouette shooting experience, but I don't understand why a Skinner 39 Peep sight wouldn't work adequately for CLA Silhouette? A free ballistics website shows that a typical rimfire silhouette round (zeroed at 50 yards) would have a trajectory of about:
40 Yards +0.44"
50 Yards 0.00"
75 Yards -2.50"
100 yards -6.70"

If the Skinner 39 sight was zeroed at 50 yards (lowest peep setting), then you would just have to hold about 1/2 inch high at 40 yards. At 75 yards you would unscrew (raise) the peep one half turn (2.0") and shoot about 1/2 inch low. At 100 yards you would unscrew (raise) the peep 3 one half turns (6.0") and shoot a little over 1/2 inch low.

This may not work in reality, but at least (theoretically) it seems like a simple, easy to use sighting system.

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

STRUGL4X'SC

· #2 · Oct 21, 2017

That may work fine, that is what is important, confidence in your sight settings, repeatability, and straight forward adjustment so the shooter can think small, shoot small

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vepr762

· #3 · Oct 21, 2017

How many AAA or Master class shooters do you see using them?

If it was an effective "competitive" sight you'd see it on their rifles.

It's just a game, so do what you want.

balvenie

· #4 · Oct 22, 2017

IMO, with the Skinner not being a precision sight, I would expect the windage zero to vary as well as the elevation zero, whenever the peep was raised or lowered.
FWIW, I have a Skinner on my Mossberg 464 and had a difficult time adjusting it with the depth rod of a vernier caliper. I got it well zeroed nevertheless. I could be wrong but I don't think you can get a target quality, all-steel, peep for a sporting rimfire lever anymore, more's the pity.

Shrps74

· #5 · Oct 22, 2017

balvenie said:
IMO, with the Skinner not being a precision sight, I would expect the windage zero to vary as well as the elevation zero, whenever the peep was raised or lowered.
FWIW, I have a Skinner on my Mossberg 464 and had a difficult time adjusting it with the depth rod of a vernier caliper. I got it well zeroed nevertheless. I could be wrong but I don't think you can get a target quality, all-steel, peep for a sporting rimfire lever anymore, more's the pity.

I've been shooting master in both rimfire and pistol cart. for a bunch of years, and the last "all steel" sight I had on a rimfire rifle was the Redfield on a 513T. I find the Williams target models are quite sufficient and absolutely repeatable. Shrps74 PS: It does seem that the older I get (67) the fewer master scores I shoot though...)

dgslyr

· #6 · Oct 22, 2017 (Edited)

Shooterjohn125 said:
Forgive my total lack of silhouette shooting experience, but I don't understand why a Skinner 39 Peep sight wouldn't work adequately for CLA Silhouette? A free ballistics website shows that a typical rimfire silhouette round (zeroed at 50 yards) would have a trajectory of about:
40 Yards +0.44"
50 Yards 0.00"
75 Yards -2.50"
100 yards -6.70"

If the Skinner 39 sight was zeroed at 50 yards (lowest peep setting), then you would just have to hold about 1/2 inch high at 40 yards. At 75 yards you would unscrew (raise) the peep one half turn (2.0") and shoot about 1/2 inch low. At 100 yards you would unscrew (raise) the peep 3 one half turns (6.0") and shoot a little over 1/2 inch low.

This may not work in reality, but at least (theoretically) it seems like a simple, easy to use sighting system.

I have yet to meet a successful hold over shooter.Almost every new shooter try's though.

1+ on the Williams FP-TK's on 39A's. Williams FP's have 20 clicks to the revolution of the elevation screw.I think it is 18 click's to the revolution for Redfield and Lyman.

ntsqd

· #7 · Oct 22, 2017

4

I D&T'd both of our 10/22 receivers for a target sight base. Picked the largest OD receiver application and didn't worry about the curve in the backside of the mount.
Something like this: https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...-model-75-black-sku962201075-26073-36446.aspx

And this: https://www.brownells.com/optics-mo...rget-scope-base-sku841105175-12730-30798.aspx

Coupled with: https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...rear-sight-black-sku539090000-7991-20238.aspx

And: https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...ght-steel-black-sku539620100-26067-20247.aspx

The dovetail of that front sight/scope base is correct, but the locking notch is not. A little hand detailing and some cold blue fixed that.

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Big-Dummy

· #8 · Oct 22, 2017

I've got the Lyman receiver sight and 17A globe on mine, but if I needed to have quick and repeatable windage and elevation changes for shooting at different known ranges, I would go with the Williams with target knobs. For that scenario, the Skinner might possibly be the worst option outside of the factory sights.

balvenie

· #9 · Oct 23, 2017

Shrps74 said:
I've been shooting master in both rimfire and pistol cart. for a bunch of years, and the last "all steel" sight I had on a rimfire rifle was the Redfield on a 513T. I find the Williams target models are quite sufficient and absolutely repeatable. Shrps74 PS: It does seem that the older I get (67) the fewer master scores I shoot though...)

Sorry to labour the point and I could be in error too but aren't receiver sights made of aluminium, nowadays? And would they not wear out in time, leading to repeatability problems?

vepr762

· #10 · Oct 23, 2017

balvenie said:
Sorry to labour the point and I could be in error too but aren't receiver sights made of aluminium, nowadays? And would they not wear out in time, leading to repeatability problems?

Only the base is aluminum and no, they don't wear out. You're not continually screwing them up and down. At the most you're only raising or lowering the sight 4x per match and even then the change in height is insignificant to the overall length of the base. As long as you still feel the "clicks" all is good.

NoSecondBest

· #11 · Oct 23, 2017

Yes, it is just a game. If you don't care about winning or being the best you can be, go with the Skinner. I use them on my 45-70 and they are certainly minute-of-deer accurate. However, as it has already been pointed out, you won't see anyone who's in the winner's circle using them, or even those who placed near the top. They simply aren't precision sights. Most sights that are manually adjustable aren't very good for precision. Even the Williams lack in that regard. The problem is that the windage changes due to too much backlash on the adjustment screws and aluminum parts do wear. I tried a set back in the day when I was shooting and soon gave up on them for precision shooting. Of all the types you could try, I think the Skinner might just be about the worst. Great for hunting, not so good for precision. FWIW, a good set of precision sights for shooting will run several hundred dollars. Something like MVA front and rear could hit the six hundred dollar mark. Good luck with whatever you choose...it's a lot of fun playing the game whether you win or lose. It's just more fun when you're winning.

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vepr762

· #12 · Oct 23, 2017

NoSecondBest said:
Yes, it is just a game. If you don't care about winning or being the best you can be, go with the Skinner. I use them on my 45-70 and they are certainly minute-of-deer accurate. However, as it has already been pointed out, you won't see anyone who's in the winner's circle using them, or even those who placed near the top. They simply aren't precision sights. Most sights that are manually adjustable aren't very good for precision. Even the Williams lack in that regard. The problem is that the windage changes due to too much backlash on the adjustment screws and aluminum parts do wear. I tried a set back in the day when I was shooting and soon gave up on them for precision shooting. Of all the types you could try, I think the Skinner might just be about the worst. Great for hunting, not so good for precision. FWIW, a good set of precision sights for shooting will run several hundred dollars. Something like MVA front and rear could hit the six hundred dollar mark. Good luck with whatever you choose...it's a lot of fun playing the game whether you win or lose. It's just more fun when you're winning.

We have a Master class shooter at our club who has 12 national records. He uses nothing, but those "cheap" Williams sights.

It's not an equipment game or a precision game. If you hit the target and it goes down that's all that matters.

STRUGL4X'SC

· #13 · Oct 23, 2017

balvenie said:
Sorry to labour the point and I could be in error too but aren't receiver sights made of aluminium, nowadays? And would they not wear out in time, leading to repeatability problems?

Yes, I have seen it happen during a match more than once! All the effort that we put into this and no one cares if the sight fails?

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redbaron8

· #14 · Oct 23, 2017 (Edited)

Sights for the Model 39......

Marble's makes a tang peep sight that has micrometer increments 0.4 inch at 100 yds made for a wide variety of guns. Not sure what the windage increment is. I have used their product on a number of guns and found them easy to use and the precision and repeatability have been very good. I used one on a very accurate Model 39 Marlin to shoot Rimfire silhouette with very good results. I averaged 28-31/40 on a good day, but I'm not a great shot. Never did get the chance to bench rest the set up at the 4 distances, but I'm betting it shot better than I could shoot it. Take a look at the very reasonably priced Marble's lineup.

NoSecondBest

· #15 · Oct 23, 2017

vepr762 said:
We have a Master class shooter at our club who has 12 national records. He uses nothing, but those "cheap" Williams sights. It's not an equipment game or a precision game. If you hit the target and it goes down that's all that matters.

I've won five state titles, two regional, and one third place at the nationals in silhouette. I was also a sponsored shooter for a major powder company for four years and won several large three gun matches. I'm glad you have an expert at your club, but I'm no slouch myself. I set one record at silhouette that's never been broken and I didn't do it with a Williams sight. You'd be very hard pressed to find any national class champion get on the band wagon about Williams sights for long range precision shooting. I'd say he's a very lucky fellow indeed.

vepr762

· #16 · Oct 23, 2017

NoSecondBest said:
I've won five state titles, two regional, and one third place at the nationals in silhouette. I was also a sponsored shooter for a major powder company for four years and won several large three gun matches. I'm glad you have an expert at your club, but I'm no slouch myself. I set one record at silhouette that's never been broken and I didn't do it with a Williams sight. You'd be very hard pressed to find any national class champion get on the band wagon about Williams sights for long range precision shooting. I'd say he's a very lucky fellow indeed.

Check the records for Dr. Peter Krook.

The point being, you don't need to spend big bucks to be competitive in rimfire Cowboy class, not BPCR.

The OP thread is not about LONG RANGE shooting. He wanted to know about RIMFIRE COWBOY CLASS.

You are 100% correct about long range, precision, or BPCR though. No argument from me.

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