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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently got my son a 452 Scout for his 11th birthday (Sept.6, so he hasn't received it yet), and I'm looking for a viable option for the sights. Part of me thinks it would be best for him to learn to shoot with iron sights (this is his first gun), but as you know the sights on the Scout leave much to be desired. It looks to me like the sights aren't easily removed/changed (without an expensive trip to a gunsmith) which leads me to think the next option would be a scope if I'm going to spend the money anyway. If he was going to shoot from a given range, I think we could settle for what the scout comes with, but it sure would be nice to have something he could easily adjust from 25 - 100 yards. As far as scopes go, I know absolutely NOTHING about them and wouldn't even know where to begin to find one that is appropriate. Should I go ahead and scope it or find another solution to replace the irons somehow ? Any thoughts or suggestions ???
 

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I think that iron sights is a better way to get started. Decent irons can be very accurate. I was shooting my cz special last night, which has very good iron sights and was able to hit a 2" metal disk from the standing position about 70% of the time at 50yds.

You might consider looking for an old browning T bolt sight. It is a little peep sight that fits onto the dovetail. They show up on ebay now and then. I think the front sight is a simple post in a dovetail on the scout. this can be changed out if the height needs to be changed for a peep sight.
 

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Similiar situation here; I just bought a Scout for my eleven year-old son. I'm going to have him use iron sights / single shot mag until I'm sure he's comfortable with open sights, etc.

I shot the NRA 50' course in a rifle club when I was in high school (kinda dates me, doesn't it?) I was thinking about running him through the same type of course -- prone, seated, kneeling, off-hand, etc. until he 'scores' a certain score at each position. I know it really helped me learn to shoot. I'll need to look up the specifics 'cause it's been 30+ years, but I'll figure something out.

To mix it up I always liked buying a bag of fruit (apples, oranges or whatever was on sale) and setting them up at varying ranges; it's fun to watch them explode. A more non-PC target was Christmas ornaments (would buy them during the after-Christmas-sales) and float them down a stream and pop them -- all this with iron sights...

Guess I'm saying stick with the open sights until he learns how to shoot then move on to a scope.

Regards,

Mark
 

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You can spend as much or as little as you want on a scope. If you just want to knock cans around the yard, the then a low dollar red dot is all you need. If you want your son to really learn to shoot, you need something better.

My Scout is set up with a Simmons Air Gun scope. The old name was ProAir. I think the name Master is now also attached to it. Mine is 4-12X40mm AO. I compete every month in a match that has a maximum 12X scope rule, so 12X is what I am used to seeing at 50 yards. I set the scope on 6X for woods use. The scope works great and costs about $125.00 or so.

Why use an air gun scope? Because they have all the features I want. Adjustable objective. A must for a .22LR at multiple ranges. Variable power. So I can see the target the way I want to. Clear and presice. Target turrets. I hate to use a dime to adjust my scope. 1/8 MOA click adjustments. At 50 yards, I can move my point-of-aim in 1/16" increments. Duplex cross hairs. Fine line for targets, thick line bigger things like ground hogs.

I have Simmons scopes on 4 out of 5 CZs. Three are competion guns. My 10-22 also has a Simmons scope. One 4-12X40mm, One 6-18X-40mm, Two 6.5-20X44mm, One 8-32X44mm. All with AO, target turrets with 1/8 MOA. I think that Simmons is a lot of scope for the money.

SWFA has pretty good prices as does Natchez.
http://www.riflescopes.com/
http://www.natchezss.com/

Thats my 2.5 cents worth.

P.S. Don't let any tell you different, those Scouts really shoot!
 

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My son received a Scout for Christmas. Almost immediately he wanted a scope. I've told him that we'll think about a scope after he is proficient with the iron sights. Along those lines I thought I could "improve" the scouts sights by installing a Williams fire sight set that I had laying around. I had no problem tapping out the stock sights. The problem I found is that the dovetails on the scout are different than the standard size we're used to and the Williams sights (front especially) did not fit correctly. It was at this point that I decided the stock sights were just fine!
Someone has posted pics of their kids scout with a rear peep and globe front sights which looks like the sweet set up.
 

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My 9 year old also has a new Scout. He has been using the factory sights and single shot mag. After just one session, he was able to consistently break standard clay pigeons at 25 yards. I did one 10 shot group with the rifle and obtained a 1 1/2 inch group at 25 yards with the irons.

This being said, I am thinking of getting a Williams Foolproof for the rifle. I think you could just use the factory front sight and put a blank in where the rear blade is. Anyone done this? Williams makes a FP to fit on dovetails, but don't know for sure if the CZ dovetail is standard size.
 

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You will probably find that the Williams Foolproof sits too high to be used with the factory front blade. Likewise with the Browning peep sight. You will also need to cut away part of the stock to fit the Foolproof.

I have been working on a design to provide an adjustable receiver sight for the CZ 452s without having to cut the stock or drill the receiver. I have a prototype glued on my Ultra at the moment which works pretty well. It goes lower than the factory rear sight so there is no issue with using the factory front. I will be producing a second prototype soon that has more adjustment range and no need for gluing. Not sure when that would be in production but my guess is before the end of the year.

With this sort of setup a nice front sight is helpful and the Lyman 17 series seems to be the best fit. They have one set up for a "European" dovetail. I should add one to my next Brownell's order but that might just fit the Scout. If not you can file down the sight's dovetail to fit - better to file a $30 part than a $200 rifle. On the Lux/Special/Trainer/Ultra models I am making an adapter to attach the 17A to the existing front dovetail. I have seen guns with a dovetail cut in the top of the front sight holder that seem to work pretty well.



This photo shows what cutting needs to be done to the stock.

 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hey Eric, that sounds like just the ticket. I'd like to start him out with irons...something every boy should know ;) I really hate the thought of cutting on the stock or drilling the receiver...that is an absolute last resort. I can see this little rifle going to his kids someday.

By the way, the ghost rings you sent me the other day for my Ultra Lux are fantastic !!! I found the 5/64 to be just right. Thank you !! :t
 

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For those of you who are interested the NRA has a marksmanship qualification program that you can use to help your kids learn to shoot proficiently. MFortie- it is likely the same program that you used in school. I know our jr. club used it in the 70's. I coach a jr. club now and we use it. There are all kinds of courses of fire- smallbore rifle, light rifle, 3p, 4p, air rifle, pistol, shotgun etc. Get on the NRA's web site and click on "youth programs" then look for the "Marksmanship Qualification Program". They have a very good book that explains it all. It is all honor system so you can administer it yourself. Adults can do it with their kids as well. They have awards that can be purchased and given as each level is reached. Check it out.

As far as scope vs irons. None of the serious jr. programs use scopes- just GOOD iron sights. The kids will want them because they are glitzy but irons are best to learn with.
 

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pdeal said:
For those of you who are interested the NRA has a marksmanship qualification program that you can use to help your kids learn to shoot proficiently. MFortie- it is likely the same program that you used in school. I know our jr. club used it in the 70's. I coach a jr. club now and we use it. There are all kinds of courses of fire- smallbore rifle, light rifle, 3p, 4p, air rifle, pistol, shotgun etc. Get on the NRA's web site and click on "youth programs" then look for the "Marksmanship Qualification Program". They have a very good book that explains it all. It is all honor system so you can administer it yourself. Adults can do it with their kids as well. They have awards that can be purchased and given as each level is reached. Check it out.

As far as scope vs irons. None of the serious jr. programs use scopes- just GOOD iron sights. The kids will want them because they are glitzy but irons are best to learn with.
Thanks! I'm sure that's the same course of fire. I was in a Jr. Rifle club in the early '70's too! It's good to hear the Jr. clubs are still around -- although I'll bet they're not associated with schools these days. :(

Regards,

Mark
 

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pdeal said:
MFortie: I am in northern WV- very close to the PA line. In PA just north of us there are quite a few smallbore rifle programs in schools still. Very sensible people up there.
I guess that makes sense; I was in NC (on Camp Lejeune no less) for a couple years of high school. After my Dad retired from the Corp he dragged us out to San Diego (which is a nice place to live) and I've been here since. While SD is still pretty nice, California in general (especially the politicians!) is/are a bit whacked -- not all Californians, but too many!

It's a tough place to own guns!

Regards,

Mark
 
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