SAVAGE RASKAL-THE DAY OF THE JACKAL

I find the work you have been doing quite interesting especially with regard to the AR-7 rifle and magazines. I don't really find this Jackel rifle as interesting as the Majestic AR-7 rifle build.

However, I do enjoy the thought process of achieving your goal to build this. Everything seems pretty straight forward except for the bolt. I am not very familiar with the Savage Rascal but as I recall the bolt is automatically cocked when the bolt is closed. With the bolt handle removed this may be very challenging to achieve when trying to push the bolt from the rear especially when the diameter of the bolt is limited but the width of the bolt channel in the receiver.

The photo you posted of the Jackel rifle replica on top of the four books is made from a KSA Crickett rifle. This rifle like many Cooeys and older rifles has a bolt where you have to pull the rear of the bolt back to cock the action once the bolt is closed. When closing the bolt there is little or no tension as the action is not being cocked. Would using this type of bolt be easier to achieve your goal?

Any thoughts of building a copy of the ZSU-33 used by Bruce Willis in The Jackel?

I have watched the scene where he gets the rifle from the gunsmith and test fires it but can't make an ID on the make or model but I have made a couple of observations.

Firstly I believe the caliber is .22 WMR. When the gunsmith unwraps the exploding bullets there is a partial box of ammunition beside his hand which looks to be rimfire. Also when the Jackel loads the exploding bullet it appears to be a straight walled cartridge.

Unfortunately the scenes do not show the complete loading and firing sequence but I believe that the bolt design is one where it must be manually cocked. I believe this because when the suitcase is first opened you can see a protrusion coming out of the rear of the bolt. This is the only time you see the rear of the bolt. I believe this protrusion must be pulled back to cock the bolt.

During the test firing it only shows him closing the bolt and then shouldering the rifle. He does not cock it so I could be completely wrong.


Attached photo you can see the protrusion or it is also visible in the video. The more I watch the more intrigued I am by this project.

Ok, got my donor.

I have watched the scene where he gets the rifle from the gunsmith and test fires it but can't make an ID on the make or model but I have made a couple of observations.

Firstly I believe the caliber is .22 WMR.yes, but I mentioned before I wanted just .22 LR. When the gunsmith unwraps the exploding bullets there is a partial box of ammunition beside his hand which looks to be rimfire. Also when the Jackel loads the exploding bullet it appears to be a straight walled cartridge. yes again

Unfortunately the scenes do not show the complete loading and firing sequence but I believe that the bolt design is one where it must be manually cocked. I believe this because when the suitcase is first opened you can see a protrusion coming out of the rear of the bolt. This is the only time you see the rear of the bolt.yes, and the rear looks similar to the rascal, with the spring guide / indicator seen in the middle or in his case the striker itself I believe this protrusion must be pulled back to cock the bolt. yes, and the scene does show it I think sufficiently.
look carefully at minute 4:00 of the scene. He twists and unlocks the bolt by rear charging handle, pulls it back and I don,t know which one of those actions cocks the firing pin. Most likely pull, not twist like rascal. Then he shoves the bolt forward = round in the chamber and twists again to lock. You can see a square on the side of the bolt, perhaps cut off handle that serves as a lock .

During the test firing it only shows him closing the bolt and then shouldering the rifle. He does not cock it so I could be completely wrong.


Attached photo you can see the protrusion or it is also visible in the video. The more I watch the more intrigued I am by this project.[/QUOTE]

My rascal is much close in action to his than cricket , which has extra movements to fire it,

I improvised a temp handle at the back of the bolt and am able to cock it and load and fire and eject using just it. It,s too short so the twisting motion to cock the rascal,s stiff striker spring requires some effort, but I can do it. If I make it a bit longer and knurled, it won,t be a problem at all . His rifle possibly cocks the firing pin/striker with the motion back, not the twist. Which is mechanically much easier . If I were not able to do it with the stock bolt parts, I would completely gut and rebuild it for cocking pull .
By the way made temporary dovetail/weaver rails for a skinny scope.
I will order just 3/8 blank dovetail for a cleaner receiver( plus I intend to be able to hide it in a tubular crutch/ cane.

Sorry, when I mentioned the .22 WMR is wasn't trying to point out you were using the incorrect caliber. I was only trying to state that was my determination after viewing photos, video, etc. You had clearly stated you were going with .22 LR.

Is you bolt handle/extension attached? Very cool. Very interested in seeing the final product.yes, it,s a plumbing hollow stainless fitting, that the original black plug ( threaded 7/16 x20) passes through and screws it by a shoulder to the bolt.

I have determined by gradually unscrewing the original small plug and reducing the tension on the striker spring to a point where I would get a weak strike. Then I would tighten it back till fire. The safe space where it would consistently fire was ~1/8", enough to place the hollow handle with 1/8" shoulder. Very strong. Friction holds it from rotation. I could key it, but no need…

Now I will create a longer charging rear handle, ~ 1" diameter like in the movie. It will be easier to grab with a lighter twist/ cocking.
The bolt side handle I think , I hope is screwed in. I hope to spare it, and replace with a screw which has a square head - functioning only as a locking lug. I hate to cut off the handle …but if necessary. It I'll be the last move.
And next is a simplified hopefully 1 piece trigger-sear combo and a slick housing. For the stock- a telescoping leg from an inexpensive bipod I have ordered.

.

Some of the sites I read today claim that two functioning rifles were made. One was turned over to British authorities and the other is held by Paris Cinematheque. I searched the Paris Cinematheque website to see if I could find any reference to the rifle. Unfortunately I don't speak French and couldn't find any reference to the rifle.

I would sure like to know what rifle was used.[/QUOTE]

OH YEAH IT COMES OFF

BMCTED said:

Regarding post #6. That sure is one gnarly looking trigger assembly.

Can the assembly be removed from the barrel/receiver?

I took some time looking at assemblies from the Mosin Nagant M91/30 and K98 Mauser ... you might find some ideas there.

Click to expand...

THANKS TED.
yes, it comes off-as a module completely. It's screwd on by those 2 posts[they are actually allens and also threaded inside for the stock screws attachment. Pretty slick.
Yes the trigger module t's too big and excessively complicated. Also a silly red ramp comes off- I can always manually fid the rounds directly[ as the guy in the movie did I think.

I'm working on a design of a simple trigger, I will look up those you mentioned if there are exploded diagrams available.

I'm thinking a 1 piece triger/sear vs 2 piece trigger + sear. And a flat spring and a simple housing, 1/4" low profile will bolt right where the original was.

I'm reviewing air rifle trigger designs and WW2 open bolt machine gun simple sear/trigger combos for full auto[ for a single round rifle they will be just fine, no issue of disconnect headaches]

I collect trigger designs. The simpler the better.
The most simple select fire trigger/sear disconnect single piece design is Uru SMG , Brazil, 1980's. The whole gun is 17 parts.
My Voere and Gevarm have extremely simple and reliable trigger/ disconnect designs.
And indeed, of hammer operated- Ar 7 seems the simplest.

I had a thought, so I went downstairs to the vault and and checked. The Mosin Nagant 91/30 cocks when the bolt is lifted. It also cocks when you pull back on the knob on the back of the bolt.

I read that the Rascal cocks when the bolt is lifted. I wonder if it also cocks when you pull back on the knob?

IF it does, I wonder if you found the mechanism that makes the Rascal's bolt cock when the bolt is lifted ... and eliminated it, could you still cock the bolt by pulling back on the knob.

I know that's a big if, but worth looking at. I am not familiar with the Rascal's bolt at all, but if it's similar to the Mosin's it just might work.

I think eliminating the cock on opening function would make the initial rotation of the bolt much easier.

To load and fire, you would:

1. Rotate the bolt and pull back on it

2. Insert a round,

3. Close the bolt,

4. Pull back on the knob on the rear of the bolt, cocking it.

5. Fire the weapon.

You will probably have to hold back on the trigger during steps 1, 2 and 3.

If I wanted a single shot Mosin Nagant, I'm sure I could do this. But I have never seen the mechanism you are working with.

STEINBVG said:

I'm working on a design of a simple trigger, I will look up those you mentioned if there are exploded diagrams available.

I'm thinking a 1 piece trigger/sear vs 2 piece trigger + sear. And a flat spring and a simple housing, 1/4" low profile will bolt right where the original was.

I'm reviewing air rifle trigger designs and WW2 open bolt machine gun simple sear/trigger combos for full auto[ for a single round rifle they will be just fine, no issue of disconnect headaches]

I collect trigger designs. The simpler the better.

Click to expand...

I don't think the rifle you are building requires anything more than a simple 1 piece trigger/sear, a spring, a housing with a pivot pin for the trigger to ride on, as indicated by the bold type above. Again, I think you may have to hold back on the trigger while loading the weapon.

Found potential triggers

Looked for different simple trigger systems for bolt operated rifles.
One made on my list of simplicity- and is potentially usable.:

Savage Stevens Springfield , models 15 120 125 !!!!

The other is Mauser 93. And I think bunch of later guns copied it too. Very nice design.

They are not expensive, look clean for my purpose and I bought them both to see which one is better suited. I don,t feel like creating a trigger / sear system from scratch, temper it , although I do have a nice sketch with a leaf spring. By the time I finished it I looked around and discovered a nice very similar slick design by John Moses Browning, in his Winchester 67 .

Today, removed the firing pin from the bolt to see if the charging handle is actually screwed in.( in the process shaved off from the firing pin stopping square surface as a preventive measure of light strikes)

As I predicted- the side handle is screwed in and easily removable by a wrench.

.But bad news is the thread is finer than 5/16x 24. I discovered in McMaster Carrthat there's 5/16 x 32!!!. A unicorn. I presume that what they have. Gun makers seem love fine threads.

Might need to buy it at some point to make a short square locking lug and keep the original handle .

Also ordered clean black of 3/8 dovetail rails instead of current bulky ones and a rifle bipod which I'll use for a telescoping stock stud.

I will post pictures of the progress once I have something done,

No such luck

I had a thought, so I went downstairs to the vault and and checked. The Mosin Nagant 91/30 cocks when the bolt is lifted. It also cocks when you pull back on the knob on the back of the bolt.just checked x-rayed operation on my computer toy gun disassembly: yes it cocks by moving the whole bolt while rotating the side handle and by the rear knob , but , just by the rear knob you can,t do the rotation to lock the bolt, thus mosin can,t be used for my purpose. I think.

I read that the Rascal cocks when the bolt is lifted. I wonder if it also cocks when you pull back on the knob?there,s no separate knob in the back, just a screwed in plug, which will be replaced by a knurled knob. It does not move independently. With that, you have to twist first before pulling back( to unlock) and while twisting a 45 degree cam is pulling back a striker- linear hammer.


IF it does, I wonder if you found the mechanism that makes the Rascal's bolt cock when the bolt is lifted ... and eliminated it, could you still cock the bolt by pulling back on the knob. Yes I found it, it,s a cam piece on the hammer, that cocks it by 45 degree bolt ramp , and hooks it to a notch of the bolt itself when you lift the handle. But when you lover the handle it relays the cocked pin( another one) that serves as the sear engaging protrusion to the sear.
Without this' relay race ' of passing cocked hammer from the bolt,s notch to the sear nothing would work. Not clear why they engineered it like this

I know that's a big if, but worth looking at. I am not familiar with the Rascal's bolt at all, but if it's similar to the Mosin's it just might work.can you operate completely mosin from the rear knob? Not touching the side lever? From my animation I didn,t think so. Rascal with an effort can be operated fully from the back

I think eliminating the cock on opening function would make the initial rotation of the bolt much easier.sorry, won,t work

To load and fire, you would:

1. Rotate the bolt and pull back on it

2. Insert a round,

3. Close the bolt,

4. Pull back on the knob on the rear of the bolt, cocking it.

5. Fire the weapon.

You will probably have to hold back on the trigger during steps 1, 2 and 3.

If I wanted a single shot Mosin Nagant, I'm sure I could do this. But I have never seen the mechanism you are working with.

I don't think the rifle you are building requires anything more than a simple 1 piece trigger/sear, a spring, a housing with a pivot pin for the trigger to ride on, as indicated by the bold type above. Again, I think you may have to hold back on the trigger while loading the weapon.

I will have to think more about it.
But

The firing linear hammer has a very strong spring.
A single piece trigger would be able to hold the sear in a manner of an extractor, only if the pivot point was in line with the sear tip. Or rely on a heavy trigger spring to counteract . My pivot I'll be inevitably lower, which will push by a rotational vector the sear go down. It might be excessively heavy trigger.

With a 2 piece design, I will have more leveraging options to reduce effort in a finger yet keeping a strong hold on the hammer. IMHO.

STEINBVG said:

E-MAILED YOU THE PICS. I'm gonna run low on the 100 mb i have. I'm still deciding if i want to become a paying member.

A week before you got here I was going to pull down some of my threads and leave because there isn't any real activity/discussion on the gun side of things and I don't hunt squirrels. Now I'm thinking I should become a paying member.

My take on the whole situation is- to get rid of the rotating hammer and install the same length thing, without any pins, but a shoulder all around to catch the sear. then it will be cocked regardless by just pulling back. I think i can machine something simple like that

Click to expand...

Last evening I found a number of photographs that I suspected were of the Rascal's bolt. From the pictures, I was able to determine how the bolt worked, and how to mod it for two purposes.

1. To reduce the effort required to cock the weapon.

2. Make the Rascal load and cock like the one in the movie. (BTW, I think they should change the name of the movie to The Day of the Rascal., but I digress)

Anyway, I wasn't certain that the photos I found were of the Rascals components. I made a couple posts about some ideas using the photos I had, but due to the uncertainty, and not wanting to trash up your thread with a lot of an old man's WAG, I took them down. Your photos confirmed that I had the right stuff.

Your drawing makes it easier to explain my ideas.

1. Replace the bolt handle with a cut down threaded fastener (bolt) as you described.

2. Remove the external hammer guide, i.e., the wheel looking thing.

3. Thread the spring guide rod/ cocked weapon indicator at the end (by the green arrow) to accept a new charging knob threaded onto it.

4. Join the spring guide rod with the hammer to make one piece, at red arrow. This could be done by welding ... even better, simply replace the guide rod with a bit of threaded rod having the same diameter, and long enough to thread into the rear of the hammer, pass through the bolt end cap with threads sufficient to screw on a new charging knob. To do this you would have to drill and thread the end of the hammer centered accurately so that the new rod would pass through the channel in the rear bolt cap. IF you can drill and tap the hammer, I think replacing the guide rod with a piece of threaded rod would be the best and simplest way to do this step. If you cannot drill and tap as required, I'm sure that almost any small machine shop could. If you cannot find a machine shop in NJ to do the work, I know an old guy in Georgia who has a lathe, AND a MIG welder.

5. If you used a piece of threaded rod, it would have to be red loctited to make the union of hammer and rod permanent. The charging knob may have to have an Allen Head Set Screw installed to keep it tight on the threaded guide rod, but removable to disassemble the bolt for cleaning.

I think that's it. No need to do anything with the stuff that locks the hammer.

To cock and load the weapon:

1. Turn the cocking knob counter clockwise to rotate the bolt. No drag here at all because the spring is not being compressed, nor the hammer rotated.

2. Draw back on the cocking knob to open the chamber.

3. Insert a round.

4. Pull back on the charging knob to compress the spring and turn the knob clockwise to cock the hammer mechanism. The shaved down bolt handle will prevent the rotation of the bolt.

5. Push in on the charging handle. At the end of travel, rotate the charging knob clockwise to lock the bolt in place.

6. Fire the weapon.

We make a good team.

Last evening I found a number of photographs that I suspected were of the Rascal's bolt. From the pictures, I was able to determine how the bolt worked, and how to mod it for two purposes.

1. To reduce the effort required to cock the weapon.

2. See below Make the Rascal load and cock like the one in the movie. (BTW, I think they should change the name of the movie to The Day of the Rascal., but I digress)

Anyway, I wasn't certain that the photos I found were of the Rascals components. I made a couple posts about some ideas using the photos I had, but due to the uncertainty, and not wanting to trash up your thread with a lot of an old man's WAG, I took them down. Your photos confirmed that I had the right stuff.

Your drawing makes it easier to explain my ideas.

View attachment 286949

1. Replace the bolt handle with a cut down threaded fastener (bolt) as you described.

2. Remove the external hammer guide, i.e., the wheel looking thing.

3. Thread the spring guide rod/ cocked weapon indicator at the end (by the green arrow) to accept a new charging knob threaded onto it.is this going to be the only handle that will do the pull/ cocking and rotation of the whole bolt out of lock? or that plug is also a handle?

4. Join the spring guide rod with the hammer to make one piece, at red arrow. This could be done by welding ... even better, simply replace the guide rod with a bit of threaded rod having the same diameter, and long enough to thread into the rear of the hammer, pass through the bolt end cap with threads sufficient to screw on a new charging knob. To do this you would have to drill and thread the end of the hammer centered accurately so that the new rod would pass through the channel in the rear bolt cap.[ are we keeping the original hammer? IF you can drill and tap the hammer, I think replacing the guide rod with a piece of threaded rod would be the best and simplest way to do this step. If you cannot drill and tap as required, I'm sure that almost any small machine shop could. If you cannot find a machine shop in NJ to do the work, I know an old guy in Georgia who has a lathe, AND a MIG welder.

5. If you used a piece of threaded rod, it would have to be red loctited to make the union of hammer and rod permanent. The charging knob may have to have an Allen Head Set Screw installed to keep it tight on the threaded guide rod, but removable to disassemble the bolt for cleaning.

I think that's it. No need to do anything with the stuff that locks the hammer.

well i may need some clarification
To cock and load the weapon:

1. Turn the cocking knob counter clockwise to rotate the bolt.are we talking about the one that is threaded on the new spring guide? No drag here at all because the spring is not being compressed, nor the hammer rotated.but the hammer will rotate counterclockwise within the body of the bolt, but not the bolt itself so it won't come out of the lock

2. Draw back on the cocking knobthe new threaded one?] to open the chamber.

3. Insert a round.

4. Pull back on the charging knob to compress the spring and turn the knob clockwise to cock the hammer mechanism. i see this one The shaved down bolt handle will prevent the rotation of the bolt.so the hammer will rotate within the bolt and set itself against the sear?

5. Push in on the charging handle.with the hammer cocked? wonlt you be pushing against the sear? it won;t be able to go forward ] At the end of travel, rotate the charging knob clockwise to lock the bolt in place.

6. Fire the weapon.

you see, i only invision ability to move the bolt back and forth using bolt plug. The hammer /guide are the passengers that are taken for a ride point to the point of sear,

unless i misunderstood your explanations