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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
CR 457 Varmint MTR/RWS Target Rifle.

50 yard ARA Target and RWS TR over the Chrono. Shot some groups to collect data (Total shots about 150)

Target score: 2450
Temperature 70° (Temp was up to 75° by Tranche 3)
Humidity 65%
Elevation 800ft
Wind 2-4 mph

Tranche 1 - Dirty bore - 20shots (Cold Bore shot was highest speed)
Hi - 1155
Low - 1100
Ave - 1120
ES - 55
SD - 12

Tranche 2 - 20 shots - Post cleaning (Hoppes9, Brass Brush)
Hi - 1138
Low - 1091
Ave - 1113
ES - 47
SD - 10

Tranche 3 - 30 Shots
Hi - 1155
Low - 1095
Ave - 1118
ES - 60
SD - 11

Tranche 4 - 25 Shots
Hi - 1147
Low - 1093
Ave - 1115
ES - 54
SD - 13

Tranche 4 - 45 shots
Hi - 1141
Low - 1100
Ave - 1123
ES - 41
SD - 9

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Many years ago I tested one lot of RWS 50 Hi 1051, low 978.5, ES 72.5, STD 23.04. I was not impressed with the groups either. Never bought another lot of RWS. I know we talked about this before. From my experience shooting different types of .22 benchrest matches, if a lot doesn't have less that 30 FPS spread it is never going to be good enough for any of those types of competition. Every lot I ever bought more of always had less than 30 FPS spread. But I have also had lots that had less than 30 FPS spread that were not good either. BTW, out of 36 lots of Match ammo I have tested over the years, none have ever had less that 23 FPS. And these numbers are usually out of a stock Anschutz barrel, a 21 inch Lilja barrel or a 36 inch Shilen barrel.
 

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I don’t remember.
People get the impression that somehow altitude has an affect on the speed of sound in air. In general it doesn't.
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Note that the only thing that changes is T or temperature. So if it is 72 degrees at sea level and 72 degrees where I live at 7000 feet, the speed of sound is the same. It might change slightley because of the decreasesd pressure but not enough that temperature is the only thing to worry about. But if you are at sea level and get into a plane and go to 7000 feet, the temperature may likely drop and so will the speed of sound.
 

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SD’s on those chrono results are pretty consistent with an average around 10-11. I like to shoot benchrest with sub 10fps SD , but the price per round is a lot more to get there. Decent ammo with good target results Stephen.

People get the impression that somehow altitude has an affect on the speed of sound in air. In general it doesn't.
View attachment 312584
Note that the only thing that changes is T or temperature. So if it is 72 degrees at sea level and 72 degrees where I live at 7000 feet, the speed of sound is the same. It might change slightley because of the decreasesd pressure but not enough that temperature is the only thing to worry about. But if you are at sea level and get into a plane and go to 7000 feet, the temperature may likely drop and so will the speed of sound.
Problem with the formula you are using is that it is using Y (1.4 at STP). STP stands for Standard Temp and Pressure which is 14.7PSI at 15C/52F at sea level. That is going to change almost 23% when you go to your example of 7000’ as atmospheric air pressue will decrease to 11.3PSI at 15C/52F. What value Y changes to IDK, but it is not the same as a Standard Day at sea level.

Density Altitude is a better tool to use as it takes into account temperature, humidity and altitude. Kestrals, AB software, better online POI calculators use all these conditions for bullet flight path. As you stated, temperature is the biggest influence and humidity the lowest, but altitude does play into the speed of sound, albeit a small value. I have a case of Center-X that is subsonic at Denver 5200’ altitude, but when I drive down to Hays Kansas (center of the state, 2000’ elevation ) most of the rounds are supersonic at equivalent outside temperatures.
 

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I recently switched to RWS Target rifle and haven't looked back, for its price £6:90 a box its the perfect mid priced ammo for prone target rifle. I noticed my averages increased markedly from 93-100 to 96-100 using RWS target rifle

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I recently switched to RWS Target rifle and haven't looked back, for its price £6:90 a box its the perfect mid priced ammo for prone target rifle. I noticed my averages increased markedly from 93-100 to 96-100 using RWS target rifle

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I really like it too. Seems a bit of an under the radar offering. Everyone focuses on Lapua/Eley/SK....
 

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I really like it too. Seems a bit of an under the radar offering. Everyone focuses on Lapua/Eley/SK....
Yes indeed RWS Target rifle is very nice, I'm keen to test it out at 2-500 yards as the scores do not lie, this stuff is on a par with Centre X and Eley Match, Eley have gone out of favor over here, in the UK.... way to much variation in batch quality,

Oh the nostalgia of RWS Club, it made Eley club look like trash (which it is nowadays) the old RWS club was stupidly reliable, I would regularly put 5K rounds through my 10/22 without a single hiccup, and no cleaning in between, never have I found a better subsonic round for semi auto rifles.

Many British small-bore clubs returned large batches of Eley due to QC issues, and my club are thinking of doing the same, we get around 1-2 duds a box with Eley club

As chief armorer for my club we have also decided to ditch Eley when our club armoury runs out, as it is killing it for our newcomers, I can see the light going out of their eyes when they get 2 duds in a row. Although it does teach good range discipline, waiting 20 seconds before opening the bolt, (in case of a hang fire)

Our club has gotten so fed up with Eley, they kindly asked me to find a reasonably priced replacement, Which is why I settled on RWS Target rifle, SK is **** good ammo but I noticed at 50 yards the odd flyer in every box RWS just doesn't do that,. The only Eley I would bother with is Tennex and at £12:50 a box its not too bad for low round count shooting like prone or 3p


I think the reason RWS slip under the radar is that RWS are terrible at marketing,

Take the Titan centrefire rifles for instance, in the same price bracket as Howa, Ruger and other budget priced rifles, but a million times better made, here they sell new for £5-600 which is staggering considering the quality, especially when compared to their competitor's,



It's just most people never even heard of the RWS Titan

TITAN 3® | TITAN 6®
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Yes indeed RWS Target rifle is very nice, I'm keen to test it out at 2-500 yards as the scores do not lie, this stuff is on a par with Centre X and Eley Match, Eley have gone out of favor over here, in the UK.... way to much variation in batch quality,

Oh the nostalgia of RWS Club, it made Eley club look like trash (which it is nowadays) the old RWS club was stupidly reliable, I would regularly put 5K rounds through my 10/22 without a single hiccup, and no cleaning in between, never have I found a better subsonic round for semi auto rifles.

Many British small-bore clubs returned large batches of Eley due to QC issues, and my club are thinking of doing the same, we get around 1-2 duds a box with Eley club

As chief armorer for my club we have also decided to ditch Eley when our club armoury runs out, as it is killing it for our newcomers, I can see the light going out of their eyes when they get 2 duds in a row. Although it does teach good range discipline, waiting 20 seconds before opening the bolt, (in case of a hang fire)

Our club has gotten so fed up with Eley, they kindly asked me to find a reasonably priced replacement, Which is why I settled on RWS Target rifle, SK is **** good ammo but I noticed at 50 yards the odd flyer in every box RWS just doesn't do that,. The only Eley I would bother with is Tennex and at £12:50 a box its not too bad for low round count shooting like prone or 3p


I think the reason RWS slip under the radar is that RWS are terrible at marketing,

Take the Titan centrefire rifles for instance, in the same price bracket as Howa, Ruger and other budget priced rifles, but a million times better made, here they sell new for £5-600 which is staggering considering the quality, especially when compared to their competitor's,



It's just most people never even heard of the RWS Titan

TITAN 3® | TITAN 6®
Aleays good to hear the what nots from across the pond!!
 
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