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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just picked up a used mk2 yesterday, took her out shooting and man is it smooth! I used to fire my dads old mk1 when i was younger and feel just as familure with this one. First shot was dead center. Groupings were pretty danged good too.

When i was at the range one of the range masters was telling me how good a home defense pistol it was capable of being. Said to load it up with some "stingers" and it would fragment when hitting someone and drop them pretty fast, he said on par with 9mm or .38 specials. He also told us to try them out sometime on a coke can full of water. Said to fire a 9mm into it and it will put a nice hole in it and the water will pour out. Said then fire a stinger .22 into it and the entire can will explode.

This guy is an ex-cop so i want to believe what he said but wanted to confirm it before i tell my wife to reach for the .22 first and 9mm second incase of an intruder. It would be great if the .22 would get the job done since she is more confy with it than the recoil of my p89 9mm...

Whatcha think? 22 with stingers or 9mm hollows? Keep in mind she would be more accurate with the .22, i think the p89 is a bit big for her hands...

Thanks for your time. I will get my .22 pics up soon! :D BTW i heard stingers were bad for 'competion' barrels mine says "target" on it and has the nicer bull type barrle...would stingers harm it?

Also what is the deal with these CCI velicotors? I saw some one sale at walmart, should i pick some up? :D
 

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I don't know about this one....

I mean, I have my P90 in .45acp for home defence (I am gonna be getting a revolver to replace that though...still keeping the P90, just revolvers work even after sitting around for 30 years untouched), but a Mark 2 is dead on and 2-3 quick shots with that would than likely kill someone if you hit them right, and it would still be capable of wounding them greatly too. But at the same time this isn't going to be a moment to take your time and hit the bullseye....this would be a moment of pure panic and you might prefer a bullet that will literally dig in and tear the living **** out of whoever it hits for maximum damage. I mean, it ain't like you gotta buy another gun, you already have a 9mm. YOu don't want to be undergunned. What if its a fat mother ****er who likes McDonalds? That guy isn't gonna feel a .22, I mean, he might, and there is nothing to say you won't kill him, it is a gun after all, and peiople have died from .22 wounds, but my mess around.

If you wan't to do the job right, Just Do iT.


There was a gun shop owner talking to a lady about some shotguns she was looking at for home defense. She goes, "I don't know if a 12guage is too much, a the 410 will still do the job right?" (handing back the shotgun)

The gun shop owner replys, "Well yes it will, but either way you are going to have to replace the carpet. So (as he hands back the 12 guage) you might as well paint the walls and get some new curtains while you are at it.
 

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He may have been an excop but he was not a balistics expert for sure. :rolleyes: A MK II with stingers will have to do if it's all you have but it is NOT on the same par as a large cal centerfire. Teh comparison to something like a 45 ACP is near apples and watermelons.. :1t
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the info. If i were home id go directly to the 9mm JHP but what i really wanted to know is if its safer to have my wife comfy with the .22 then not so confy with the 9mm? The guy was telling me that the stingers fragment when they hit or something to that effect.

Hell maybe i should just invest in a 12guage... :D
 

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jbkm said:
Thanks for the info. If i were home id go directly to the 9mm JHP but what i really wanted to know is if its safer to have my wife comfy with the .22 then not so confy with the 9mm? The guy was telling me that the stingers fragment when they hit or something to that effect.

Hell maybe i should just invest in a 12guage... :D
;)

Hollow points are ment to fragment on inpack, yes. -but on the impact of small varmints up the size of cyotes. Humans don't have verty thick skin, so they would probably make it inside and do some dmage. I would still (if I were to use a .22) use full metal jackets over HPs. Now for a 9mm and above, I would take HPs for self defense from humans anyday.

In all honesty, I would invest in a gun she feels confortable with...that is in a larger caliber. The P series from Ruger are fairly thick gripped weapons. If you like Ruger, maube check out some of the DA revolvers. Think they make some .357/9mm convertables now in the DA series. I know they have them in the SA cowboy style, but I think they are starting to do it on the security six and GP100 guns. I might be mistaken, but its a good investment IMO becuase you get both calibers for the price of one. (plus, when it comes to .357 revolvers, you automatically get the option to shoot .38 speicals in the same cylinder)

Hell, maybe she would feel more comfortable with a smaller frame Ruger SA type gun... Lots of options out there.

But ya, if you don't plan on walking through house seeking out an intruder, baracading youself in the bedroom with a 12 gauge is the most safe means of getting out alive IMO. Ain't nobody walking through that door if you rack it right when you hear footsteps....but walking down the hall with a 26" gun (18" barrel with the reciever and grip) isn't the most convienient option if you ask me.
 

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I have to second Pdwight. A revolver is a great choice in a handgun for home defence. I have a 12 gauge, and I think it is the ideal arm for the job. Consider looking at your states law regarding deadly force. Where I live you must be in,"immediate fear of death or grave bodily harm." A stinger may kill someone given enough time. If you are in 'immediate fear' you need to have a firearm capable of neutralizing that threat post haste! A direct hit to the central nervous system with a .22 will do that. Under the stress of a life and death encounter I would not want to bet on my ability to do that much less my wife who has less interest/experience shooting.
The other concern I would have is that the single action trigger pull on a target .22 may get you in trouble. When you are under stress, your fine motor control goes out the window. It is very easy to discharge the firearm unintentionally. Should the homeowner actually disable a perp and have a second discharge while they are on the ground you could be looking at murder 2 if the coroner rules the second shot was the fatal one and you were no longer in ,"immediate fear of death or grave bodily harm." This will vary from state to state depending on self defence law. Should you escape criminal prosecution, it is not uncommon to be sued in civil court by the perps family or the perp (if they live). Trying to defend the "hair trigger" that the plaintiffs lawyer will bring up is not my idea of a sure thing.
In short the .22 is great for fun, competition, hunting, and teaching. As a last ditch backup gun for CCW I can concede it has a place. but in my humble opinion it is one of the worst choices for a home defence gun.
Get a Remington 870. If you are concerned recoil will be too stout, the 20 gauge is an option.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
yup, i can see where you are going with the length thing. I read somewhere once that the best way to get an intruder out of your house is with the sound of a pump action shotty. Anyone dumb enough to stay in after hearing that diserves to be cut in half! i would really like to pick up the bennelli i saw at the gun store, but she cost 1200 bucks!

Thanks for the tips guys, gonna tell her to keep on using the 9mm if need be. Hell 15 rounds she should be able to hit them, or scare them to death!
 

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JBKM;
Some thoughts on your "Stingers for personal defense? Query.
I worked the ghetto/barrio of a large (for NE anyway) city as a firefighter/ emt for thirty years. I have seen hundreds of the good, the bad, and the ugly killed by every means the depraved mind can devise. A .22 needs to penetrate into the soft organs to kill. Stingers, Yellow jackets, Velocitors etc are the least likely of any .22 to do this. Chose a high velocity solid if you must use it for self defense.
Second the 12 Gauge, but keep it cocked for the following reason: in a home invasion any noise you make surrenders two of your advantages, the element of surprise and your location. All you have left is your intimate knowledge of the geography and the spook's ignorance of it. There is a good reason your range advisor is no longer a cop. Hope this helps
 

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I was at my local shop/range and they had a MkII standard 4". I was just shooting my 10/22. They said if I rented it I could use my own ammo so I gave it a try. This was my fisrt handgun experience. I shot a few mags of normal .22 and then I shot a mag of stingers. WOW :eek: The thing had nearly twice the recoil force, was as loud as a 9mm and spouted quite a muzzle flash. I did not shoot anything but paper but I would agree that it would probably do a job on an intruder.
 

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For Home Defence.
I vote for the 870 for home defence. The mear sound of it being loaded has a way of changeing people's mind's unless they have already made a decission
.22's are great for small game or target,but thats where they need to stay.
I have never felt the need to carry a pistol here.
But I do have and use a Colt Gov 38 Super and a Mk-II 512. They are a Blast.
For personel defence though, as big a pistol as you can proprely handel.
And most women can handel anything between a 9 Mil to .357.
I often look back at the military's decission do go from the .45 to the 9 MM with amaisement when I have seen the difference in how they act and work.
Seem's they want the .40 now.
 

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If you want a self defence handgun gun for the wife to use, Get a used 4" medium frame DA revolver in 38/357. ( Of course, a 410/20 ga shotgun isn't a bad choice either!) With such a $200 wheelgun, you can get light target loads to practice and fragmenting/personal defence loads for when it's needed. IMHO, A semi-auto is not a good choice for a nervous novice to be grabbing at, in the dark. while still 1/2 asleep. She has to worry about safeties, mag eject buttons, SA vs DA, etc just to get the first round off. Then it, extraction/ejection , slide cycles, etc. With a wheel gun , you pull the trigger and it goes bang. Pull it again and it goes bang again. Every time. It's also allot easier to get a set of grips to fit HER hands on a revolver . Most semi's , especially the double stacks, have limited grip sizes/shapes available.
 

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My Colt has misfired 3 time's in thousand's of rounds sence 1978. Those were the result of picking up a primer with resizeing lube on my finger's.
I highly doubt you will find a more reliable firearm. 95 year's of production should show you why it is, what it is.
Some peices are nicer to look at and maybe in feel, but all said and done it was one of John Browning's better designs.
Always Copied , Never Equaled...
 

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Ya, like Tacoma said. I don't think I stressed it enough in my first post. For a home defense handgun for non-gunnuts, revolvers are still king...and even for those with experience.

I just got a .44 caliber blackpowder 1851 Navy reproduction that I am considering loading and using. Even if it don't kill 'em, they might loose and arm or leg due to infection. (Aren't I a sick *******?) :D
 

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You know, as much as I love firearms, and would probably do anything to protect my wife and children, I say get her a DOG. A big dog, like a Border Collie or a Lab. They are good friends and good with kids, but when your life is in danger they would protect you to the death. They don't panic, they can see in the dark and they can hear every little sound an intruder makes!

I have a Black Lab, and most people are terrified by just her size. I'm not stupid either, I alos have a Ruger 357 Mag in the top dresser drawer.:D

Think about it, dogs make nice companions.
Gary
 

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I gotta agree with TheKid on this one. My wife is inexperienced with firearms, but the dog knows what to do all the time. We have a small German Shepard mix. He's just the right size for the house and sounds mean enough to scare someone away who can't see him. Pretty fast too when he takes after someone or some animal he feels doesn't belong in his world! However, when I'm home, he's second on the defense chain of events :eek: Tobydog.
 

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For HD, skip the .22. Just look at the FT./lbs per round. Also keep in mind that a shotgun gives an intruder something easier to grab onto if he gets close enough. I favor a revover for this purpose. Although I keep nothing but a bat in easy reach because I don't want to take any risk of one of my children getting a gun in their hands - all of them are under 9. My guns are all locked away and the ammo is too - separately. Couldn't get ready for a fire-fight in less than 3-5 minutes.

I agree with Engine-3ret's comments about the often referenced value of the sound of a 12 gauge pump racking a round. If you "think" that you hear something, remaining quiet is likely a good bet, as an intruder is trying to be stealthy and get in and out without being noticed. I was once awakened by the sound of smashing glass and splitting wood, and I figured someone was on the way to incapacitate or kill me while they still had the element of surprise. I grabbed my Ruger .357 and tried to wake up and get oriented. I heard nothing more while expecting someone to come barreling through my bedroom door - nothing. I figured that the intruder might be moving towards my kids' rooms so I ventured into the hallway towards the room from which the sounds had initially come. To my surprise and relief, I saw that a large and heavy painting had fallen. Apparently the frame had just given way and cracked apart - hence the sound of breaking glass and splitting wood. I surprised myself with how I had remained fairly calm and focused. I had been thinking about where I was and in what direction my shots might over-penetrate and cause unwanted harm. I had exercised good form that had come from lots and lots of training.
 

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I have large dogs too, but for a different purpose. They're my eyes and ears and let me know if there's a problem. I then call them out of the way and go deal with it. Just my opinion.

Anyway, on the .22 for home defense issue. A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a cannon. Ever done much hunting? A .22 just isn't much gun when it comes to middle sized game. I know poachers use it for it's quietness, but they also don't care how many wounded animals get away.

There's a reason law enforcement uses larger caliber centerfire pistols. Not only is centerfire priming more reliable than rimfire, but a .22 might or might not end an attack. In fact, I'm sure an attacker hit with a few of them would die, but it could take anywhere from a few hours to a couple days. If you're attacked, you want something that STOPS the attack NOW!

That said, no pistol is ideal for home defense in my opinion, not even the big magnums. All pistols are a compromise based on controllability. A shotgun is a far more effective tool. A pistol just happens to be handier for many of us to grab in the middle of the night. Dunno 'bout you, but I want the biggest one I can handle cuz I want the attack to stop NOW. If I knew I was going to a gunfight, I'd take a rifle..well, I wouldn't go at all, but you know what I mean :)

If your wife can handle the .22 more effectively, then perhaps that's the right tool for the job, but I bet with a little practice, she'll do just as well with your p89 too. The .22 makes a wonderful training aid and helps people transition to larger calibers but I wouldn't want to bet my life on it if there are other more viable options.
 

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+1 on using a pump shotgun... I have one set up with various rounds on the side saddle and loaded with birdshot which if shot down the hallway will not strafe penetrate into adjourning rooms... a handgun round will penetrate...

For those that carry hollow poit handgun rounds (like I do) you may want to do some testing at close range firing... at 7 meters most rounds will be just about slow enough to actually expand... closer than that probably burn right through... I didnt know that till just lately during some conversation and testing... just something to think about
 

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Seems that all the important stuff to think about for home defense has already been posted by others. FWIW, I've got the plastic wonder pistols, the slicked-up .45 1911s, etc. and have been shooting them for many years. Also have some rimfire pistols and relvolvers. But for home defense, there's a 12 ga. handy and a couple of .357 revolvers, loaded with hot .38 Special hollow points. If they don't get the job done, it probably won't get done, IMO. Most anyone, even with just a little practice can handle a medium frame revolver with .38s.
 
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