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Rico's 8 ball and Zee Row games.....

7487 Views 39 Replies 5 Participants Last post by  Clem-E
In memory of Rico I want to keep his 8 ball and Zee Row games going in super sport heavy.

8 Ball

1/8", that is, LOL,

well, decided to go ahead and get this off the ground and onto the "table" LOL, nice new green felt,

guidelines are pretty much the same as the 13MM game, cept @ 25 yds; but for a re-fresher;

3 out of 4 groups, pick the best 3

4 rounds per group,

one receiver per entry,

any scope, types of rests are okay,

each group equal to .125 (1/8") or less after subtracting the avg of your 4 single mzrn'g holes, mzrmnts to be done by the shooter,

granted, this will be quite tuff, but some here feel that it is time
to raise the bar, and i think this SHOULD be fun, LOL,

i hope the "guidelines" are clear enuff, but am open to any suggs as usual as this is for everyone, and the ONLY thing that CANNOT be changed is the TITLE,

BTW, whenever anyone qualifies, their name will be posted just like in the other games, and the only duty here will be to polish the rack which will
be made of XXX grade walnut and to keep the felt dusted; powder cannister full, ample supply of chalk for the nxt "shooter", kinda like the "keeper of the hall"

okay, gals and guys, RACK-EM-UP, LOL,

have fun and shoot straight,

would love to try today, but way too windy to try for teeny holes, maybe a bit later,
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I would love to go out Friday. But my wife has been having some health issues so I have burned a few more days off than I would have liked taking care of her. I wont be able to do any weekdays for a while. The last several times I have gone out I haven't even focused on my breathing or even using decent ammo. I just took some cheap stuff and focused on stress relief. I haven't even uploaded the targets for the cheap ammo challenge. I guess Ill do that now.
Saturday the 8th I believe. Not this Saturday but next Saturday is the monthly fun shoot at Arlington sportsman club. Hope to see you there.

Faith, Honor, Family
I cant that day. There is a car show at Gas Monkey. A friend of mine has some cars he wants to take. He is trailering one of them and I am driving the other. I will be driving the 54th built out of 107 of these

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My classic vehicle will be waiting till after tax season to get anymore funds thrown at them.
I'm currently purchasing a anni br 54 from a member on the board so I have no extras funds now either.

There is a car show a TMS this week end as well.

Faith, Honor, Family
here is my personal junk. its broken right now.

I need to put this in it

so I haven't bought may firearms in a while.
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What size motor Clem? Looks like fun to me. I am one of those weird people that enjoy building engines although all mine were Type 1 VW and I had a small business on the side building two stroke kart racing engines.

Take a reliable KT 100 Yamaha that was designed to go a half a season (maybe 25 to 40 hours at 10,000 RPM) and turn it into a 4 hour engine turning 14,500 rpm!!:rolleyes::D:bthumb: That is with all stock parts! Just blueprinting and lot of very "interesting" assembly:rolleyes: Never got busted in Tech though. Ran the same two engines for a season and got one back as a box of parts every post race tech. Everyone KNEW they were illegal but they passed tech every race. Okay so I was sweating the whole time if they would figure it out but it was one of those things that was so BLATANT they never even thought to check for it.

Ran them at the IKF Grand National Championships and got second place against the 300CC Open class (any fuel except hydrazine) with my 200cc "Stock" class (gas and oil) Kart. Was the last race of the year and my nerves could not take it anymore!

Funny part was I ran legal but very fast engines in 200 class and had one "let go" @ 14,200 rpm 45 minutes into a 1 hour race. Not a single salvageable part left if you did not count screws and that stuff. Weird part was the engine blowing up may have saved my life. it was 117 F air temp and I pulled into the pits pulled off my helmet and started getting sick. Meanwhile people were running up to me dumping their coolers on me. They said I was purple! Heat stroke.:( The driving suit below was WHITE on the back when it dried from all the electrolytes I had sweated out. From that day on I drank a qt of Gatorade race morning for breakfast and another qt between then and race and never had another problem.

Bad part is it damaged something in my brain that controls body temp and to this day 30 years later. If I start sweating I can not stop and if I start shivering I can not stop. Broken thermostat the docs say! I really miss racing though.

"Legal" KT 100 engines:

The last "VW" engine I built was a lot like some of the "10/22"s built here. It had exactly ONE VW part in it! The distributor drive gear. Like here the engine was a "Volkswagen" to anyone calling it something! We mounted it in an older 911 Porsche. It was quite a bit faster (and larger displacement) than the 6 cylinder motor we took out. The used Porsche motor almost paid for the new "VW" and the new one was lighter too. The Porsche was a 2200CC the VW was 2500cc or so!
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This is more or less a regular road vehicle. I drive it as much as my 2007 diesel pickup.
Bone stock small block 350 with original Saginaw 3 speed manual and open rear with 3.07 gear.

This one is awaiting more attention.
I just put a new motor in it about 6 months ago. Going to take the t350 out and put in a Muncie 4 speed.
327 w/th400 bucket seat console shift Elcomino 4.10 closed 10 bolt rear
Fairly rare for this car.
Can't wait to get back to work on it.

I can meet up with you first Saturday in November at quail creek. I'll probably be driving the 70 c10 if weather is fair.

Faith, Honor, Family
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My buddy with the cobra R's used to race shifter carts when we were kids. There is a go cart track (for racing gas carts, not the kind where people go pay to drive electric carts) right next to the drag strip by me.

I had a friend whos dad was a huge VW guy. He loved those things. I helped drop the engine out of one once, it took like 20 minutes. it was pretty cool.

mine is an aftermarket block deal. 416ci. around 12.5:1 compression, solid roller, new profiler sbf heads. I am told by people who should know that it should make between 650-700hp on motor and run 9s in the 1/4 mile in my street car. we built one a few years ago for my buddies car, it was a stock Windsor block 408 with a set of 351 Cleveland heads on it. it made around 670hp on motor and ran 9s in the 1/4 mile.

here is how it launched on motor. this was before we got the rear suspension sorted out

here are some more pics of my small block

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That was why I asked Clem because the motor looked too nice to be a stocker. That sounds like an excellent combination. There are just some combos that click like the 383 GM Small block built on 350/327 or one of those blocks. They perform better then the C.I. would indicate just because everything clicks and is a balanced combination of part. Again not much different than a really nice 10/22. It always seemed to me that the engines that went together easy always ran better and the engines you had to fight with never seemed to quite be what you hoped.

I am liking the potential in Peashooter67's El Camino. I am not a big GM fan but the El Caminos, 66 Chevelle, 69 Comaro and that truck body style (is that what they called a "C" or C10 Body?)

My bugs were mostly Baja Bugs for street/off road combination and they WORKED. My best friend got me into it so we had two and we would gather up all the buddies and there Toyota Trucks and full sized trucks and about every 1/'2 hour we would have to stop and take a break so the trucks could catch up and the guys tongues would be hanging out from the beating they were taking but we could go way faster on dirt roads and trails and not get beat up and or bugs were not full on Class 5 off roaders. I drove mine to work or my wife did. My daughter named ours Boogy Bug because if we when fast we were boogying. I would take adults out and not even meaning to scare them badly. She was 3 at that time and practically grew up in that car and no matter how fast I went from then until she was 16 she could never get enough.

If you notice the Kart is a laydown called Enduros in the East and Road Racing in the west we raced on all the big named race tracks. My first race was Riverside Intl (long gone now) and the next was Laguna Seca in Monterey, Ca and home track was Willow Springs and you have seen it in hundreds of TV commercials for anything from sports cars to energy drinks. Built in the side of a mountain 2.6 miles around and something like 260 ft drop from turn 4 to turn 8!! We also raced Sears Point now called Sonoma and we used the more difficult layout the Indy Cars use instead of the weenie layout NASCAR uses:eek::D

Willow Springs many many views:

Here is a better view of the driving position. I designed the chassis with a friend and he welded it and the first time we took it out to test we broke the track record by 4.2 seconds!! This was my first drive back after breaking my back over a year before in a fall at Willow!

Yamahas at Willow about 130 to 135 mph. This picture it has Komet reed valve engines and was more like 135-140 mph calculated from RPM-Gear-Tire size. Over 3 G's in the corners and we were faster through the corners than all but the fastest Formula/Indy cars. Of course many race cars killed us on top speed. Only 200cc after all but the biggest thrill I ever had.

Going back to the 10/22 analogy: Many of the same things apply as far as getting everything straight and squared and that kind of stuff is what makes a 10,000 rpm motor turn 14,200 much like when you blueprint a rifle action/barrel to get accuracy. Also what we learned early in SuperStock when you were finished building the rifle the IMPORTANT work started because all the tuning and tweaking is where the Speed/Accuracy come from!

Usually records are broken by tenths of seconds. The funny part was neither of us breaking that record so badly was neither of us had ever driven a twin engine kart before that day! We designed it FOR Willow Springs' high speeds and made it so narrow it was skinnier than most single engines, the craziest part is I designed it knowing I was going to give away handling for top speed because the Championship was coming to Willow the next year. Something went wonderfully wrong because it was the best handling kart we had ever driven! we sold 4 or 5 but we were not really in the kart building business but were engine builders. Sometimes a good chassis makes those engines look much faster like your friends Mustang before and after getting the rear end of the car figured out. So many things kind of interchange with this stuff between rifles and other hi performance machines of what ever kind because the basics are the same.

Earlier we discussed the fundamentals of SHOOTING this kind of rifle. Again their is a likeness because no matter how fast the car is or how accurate the rifle it still comes back to the fundamentals and tweaking those techniques to drive/shoot better. I have always thought that it is not uncommon for people like us to have interests in more than one sport because if you are good at one and know why you are good you can apply those fundamentals in other places sort of like a gymnast and a high diver. When I was first coming up through the ranks in Karate some of our best black belts took dancing, even ballet lessons to learn how to move!! Did seem kind of funny to see some of the best fighters in the U.S. in Ballet tights!:rolleyes::D
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That really looks fun. I'd like to build a v-twin off road fun cart. Kinda a cross between a go kart and a today weenie off road cart that's all the rage today.

Take a go kart from when we were kids and put a 24 + hp v-twin on it with fat dirtbike tires on it. Stretch it so and adult can fit and give it a little suspension. I think that would be a hoot off road.

Faith, Honor, Family
I like those old chevy trucks, but I REALLY like that elky! :bthumb:

we made a bet with some chevy buddies of ours a few years ago. they had a 67 buick skylark, we were gonna race the tan mustang. so we both built engines. the rules were no more than 10:1 compression, pump gas, flat tappet cams. since the mustang was a lighter car we would just run a .040 over 358" Windsor shortblock. they could run a 383. we ran that set of Cleveland 4v closed chambers and they could run some dart heads because the clevelands intake ports were as large as a big block chevy. single carb cast intake of your choice. heads up, run whatcha brung motor to motor.

after they were both built we got to the 1/8th mile track to make some hits. the mustang went 7.30s due to carb problems. but we fixed that and got it to run 7.0s. then I pulled the mufflers off and it went 6.80s.

our buddies made 2 passes in the skylark in the low 8s. put it back on the trailer and went home. we never even raced and the skylark has been sitting since. they don't really want to race us anymore unless its with a 400lb lighter car with a 600ci big block chevy vs the 408. and even that car was only .2 quicker in the 1/8th than the mustang was with the big clevor. the 408 in the mustang went [email protected] and the 598 in the rx7 went 6.teens @ 112. motor to motor. some people just slap stuff together and that never works. lol.
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Because to race a mustang" pony car" you have to use another "pony class car". That my friends would be a nova " chevy 11 " or a 67-69 camero with an equivalent motor.

But boy I sure like me some heavy Chevys.

Faith, Honor, Family
the mustang weighed right at 3k lbs. the buick was 3300. so they got 30ci. the rx7 with the 598 weighs 2600 vs the mustang having a 408 and 3k. they have another rx7 with a 434 sbc in it. that car weighs 2450 and only runs 6.40s and [email protected] so the 408 with stock heads and stock block in the car that weighs 550lbs more is running .1-.2 quicker and 6mph faster. pretty sad. and these rx7s are both back half ladder bar cars with 29-13.50 slicks. we are running bolt on stock suspension stuff and 28-10.50s.

I really don't understand how their stuff is that slow. I know a guy who has a 468 in a 67 Camaro that runs [email protected] on motor. the car weighs 3300lbs and it makes somewhere north of 800hp. so I know it can be done. they are all nuts bolts and grease when you get them apart. I would have put a big block chevy in my mustang, but then I would have had to hear people say 'had to put a chevy in it to make it fast.' and that just isn't the case. that and I am not a cross breeder. my z28 had a chevy in it. funny thing is, that thing was a good running stock lt1 in a 3630lb car, made 275 to the tires and ran as good as the buick my buddies built with a aftermarket headed 383. I would love to have a 66-67 nova with a badass little small block chevy. there are a lot of really good 23* heads out there right now.

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You know it isn't just about cubic inches or this or that.

It all has to match from the water pump to the rear gear and tire diameter/width.

More often it's the wrong torque converter and the wrong rear gears.
Buick probably had higher rear gears and not high enough stall converter.

I've seen an other wise awsome car that just wouldn't go.
Had the right stall and the right rears and it would hook up but was a dowg.
Intake/cam/heads combo wasn't working together.

On paper it looked like it should burn up the track but just went bla.........

Changed out the heads to a smaller intake port with a different shape and bam like a rocket.

Btw: last time I weighed a Chevelle "67" same she'll as a skylark. It weighed in at 3,800 and tag said 3,200. That 5-600 makes a big difference to.

Faith, Honor, Family
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we weigh the cars at Northstar, so it was what it was. I believe they had around a 4k rpm converter and a 4.11 in back. the mustang had my budget/junk 347 and c4/converter in it when my friend first got the car done. my 347 in his car ran [email protected] on motor before we built the 'bet' engine. so they should have had some clue what they were up against. :D
That awesome either way.
Those clev/win mix motors are power houses for sure.

Faith, Honor, Family
Probably why Bob Glidden won so many pro stock races with clevelands. Its not super easy to find Cleveland 4v heads anymore, but its not real difficult. And if you really want a Cleveland head there are always aftermarket alternatives. the blocks are getting stupid hard to find in good condition, unless you want to run a 351/400m. the Windsor is just such a good base. we did have to make adapter plates and a valley pan to run the Cleveland intake on the Windsor.

here is a little cell phone vid of it leaving on motor at Kennedale

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All the engine assembly stuff is very much like when a bunch of us figured out together how to tune the SuperStock rifles and they would out shoot most of the Ultimates back then because. The "Ultimates" back then were what I called "kitchen table guns" because guys were building a rifle in a 1/2 hour with a bunch of parts bought for looks and ZERO tuning. They just did not know that tuning was needed!!

When DrGunner took over Ultimate a few years ago his leadership and understanding the same things we were doing made the Ultimates true ULTIMATES. At that point those rifles (the good ones) were more accurate than the SuperStock because a heavy rifle is going to out shoot and equally built light rifle.

It was fun for a while there when those guys were looking at our groups and rifles and wondering how THAT happened!!:D:bthumb:
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assembling shortblocks is an exercise in frustration for me. mock up, tear apart, open up one clearance, screw up another, tear it apart, fix it again, mock it up again. have to fix something else. repeat process 158 times to get the shortblock correct. that's why it took 5 months to assemble that shortblock. I like working on rifles better. lol
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